What makes the snakeheads sound different

[HSI]

I recently played a '23 Gibson Snakehead and it was considerably louder and with a fuller tone than my 1914 Gibson A1. What are the construction differences that make it so ?

[Capt. E]

You really aren't exactly talking about "snakeheads". You are talking about the very significant changes made in construction of instruments initiated at Gibson by Lloyd Loar. The shape of the peghead has no affect on tone, volume etc. The elevated fretboard, bracing changes, etc. have everything to do with it.

[Mike Black]

The best reason that I've read has been "Quality Control" during Loar's time at Gibson. Loar had his Master Models body air chamber and tonebars tuned. I belive that this also trickled down to the snakeheads of the time. I have a 23 Snakehead and when you tap on the top and it "rings". More so than the older Gibson A as well as most instruments.

Just my 2 cents!

[Dave Hanson]

Snakeheads being oval hole mandolins didn't have elevated fingerboards, so that can't explain the difference, I think it's that they were very carefully made to fully bring out the sound.

Dave H

[sunburst]

What makes the snakeheads sound different?
The are different, each one of them. Every mandolin sounds different.
Perhaps there is some commonality among the "Loar era" snake head mandolins that makes them sound collectively different from earlier Gibson A mandolins to some people, but it's not a forgone conclusion.

Oh, and, elevated fingerboards did show up on later oval hole Gibson mandolins.

[danb]

there are at least 2 features that were different- the truss rod in the neck and the adjustible bridges. The bracing stayed the same, and I'm pretty sure the carving shapes didn't have a dramatic change either. Quality control? Perhaps.. I've certainly found some snakeheads that sounded poor, or had strange construction anomalies.

I'm with sunburst though, they're really things you have to look at as unique members in a crowd. The ones from around the loar period seem to my ear to have a better chance to sound great, but then I'm finding great-sounding ones pretty much from 1908 onwards.

I think the first significant change to tone that gibson did was to use a raised finger rest/pickguard. I think that got a lot of people's resting hands off the tops which opens them up more.

The earlier wide mahogany necks seem to have some effect too. You can feel a difference in vibrations on one of those vs a thinner-necked truss rod model. Then there's the adjustible bridge- either a good or bad thing for some folks' preferences, but it certainly makes a wider variety of setups possible.

I think you need to jump from '22 to 26 then really, to get the lacquer effect. Sometimes that's mild, and sometimes it's pronounced.

The nice thing is that if you can go out and try just about any a model from serial 10000-85000, you've got a chance it'll be a really nice sounding one. That's a lot of mandolins...

[Gary S]

Bcause of the strengthening of the truss rod, the neck was able to be carved narrower (less mass) which could have some impact on the sound. While the snakehead headstock didnt change the sound, the strings were being pulled from the bridge to the tuners at a considerably different angle. This might have some effect on the sound as well. Just some considerations...Gary

[Capt. E]

Sorry... no elevated fretboard, perhaps I was thinking of the elevated pickguard/fingerboard. The addition of a truss rod, a thinner neck, adjustable bridge, string angle changes, and better quality controll would certainly make for a "different" instrument. There are people who prefer the sound of the pre-Loar mandolins as they better match the particular music they play.

[JeffD]

The best reason that I've read has been "Quality Control" during Loar's time at Gibson. Loar had his Master Models body air chamber and tonebars tuned. I belive that this also trickled down to the snakeheads of the time.

I have heard this as well. But if true, it would likely be true of all "Loar Era" Gibson mandolins, nothing particular about snakeheads.

[Ken Olmstead]

I have read where the early A models (190?) are the least desireable ovals but the opening track on Tone Poems (Turn Of The Century) is easily my favorite recorded oval hole sound on the 1905 A4. Probably just David. He even makes the "Snow Queen" sound like a million bucks!

[HSI]

I appreciate the responses - as an aside, I was not implying that the shape of the Snakehead peghead had anything to do with the differences in the sound.

A few more questions regarding A-style Gibson mandolins: When did the necks first get elevated off of the top ? When did f-holes first get regularly incorporated (this counts out the Tut Taylor A-5) ? When was the ladder bracing replaced (regularly incorporated) with the sub-parallel pair of tone bar bracing ?

[atetone]

Gail Hester posted a while back about measuring the insides of snakeheads and finding that they were slightly different body dimensions than the teens models.
I think she also mentioned that the graduations were different also if I recall correctly.

[Gail Hester]

Yes, I believe that there are significant differences between the average paddlehead and snakehead mandolin. I posted some of them here: http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20558

Also, there is an opinion by some experts that the more direct string angle on the snakeheads is a better design.

Snakeheads as a group tend to be more focused/punchy with great clarity and many of them have a nice chop making them a mandolin suited to many styles. Paddle heads in general are great too but are a little different, tend to not have a focused sound and are not as consistent. Just my opinion after working with a lot of each and measuring them all.

[squirrelabama]

I heard that Loar used to sneak into the shop after hours and rub "Xylaria longipes" mushrooms into the spruce tops of the snakeheads.

[Gail Hester]

Wrong thread Geoff. :))

[danb]

I'd forgotten that previous thread Gail, thanks for re-linking. The graduations are interesting- I suppose we'd need a database of hacklinger measurements to find the vairation etc. It's complicated to find a standard numerical way to describe "good sounding" unfortunately :)