What's the deal with the banjo hatred?

[grandmainger]

OK, so I'm really quite new to the whole bluegrass scene, but I'm getting all puzzled by this.

Most adverts / sales pitches I see for mandolins mention something like 'banjo-killer' 'banjo-blaster', etc. #Or something along the lines of: 'this mando is SO LOUD! Banjo-players watch-out'...

I've never played in a band with a banjo player. Is it really that bad? Or is it just one of those things that everybody loves to hate...

[Bobby Brite]

Depends on the banjo player. Iv'e found that a lot of them play as loud as they can no matter what but thank goodness we found one that actually considers the whole band but I still have to give him a hard time. It's all in the game.

[mad dawg]

Perhaps it's jelously over a banjo being featured in Deliverance? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[mrbook]

Q: Why do people take an instant dislike to banjo players? A: It saves time.

Seriously, though, a banjo is usually a loud instrument, especially when played aggressively in a bluegrass band. It can (but doesn't have to) drown out other instruments, especially lead guitar and mandolin. I play both mandolin and banjo, depending on what the band and/or song needs, and love them both. I think most of the animosity comes from people who think the banjo keeps them from being heard. Also, it has been argued here several times that many people (myself included) will admit that a real bluegrass band can get by without a mandolin (although it shouldn't), but not without a banjo. In almost every band I've been in, everyone but the banjo player complains they can't be heard, and they are the easiest one to blame.

[mandofiddle]

The terms banjo killer, etc, when used to describe a mandolin is basically saying that the mandolin will be able to be heard over a banjo, since banjos are very loud instruments when compared to the mando.

With all the banjo jokes I've heard, I've never actually met anyone who hates banjos and banjo players. For the most part (I'm sure there are exceptions somewhere) I think its just a running joke because of the volume difference. That and the fact that the stereotypical banjo player is a toothless hillbilly. Again though, I've never met a banjo player who is toothless and a hillbilly...

[morgan]

You really asked two questions - one about banjo volume and one about banjo hatred. Regarding banjo hatred - The stereotypical bad banjo player always plays too loud, never gets out of other soloists' way, and tunes once per month whether its necessary or not. It is the behavior of this mythical figure, rather than volume envy, that is the source of banjo hatred. Of course, this is merely a stereotype and such banjo players could never exist.

[ira]

funny, not a bg guy. i always thought it was just a goof in good humor.

[Ken Sager]

The stereotypical bad banjo player always plays too loud, never gets out of other soloists' way, and tunes once per month whether its necessary or not.
The same is true of bad mandolin players, bass players, guitarists, what-have-you. The problem is usually dynamics and banjos seem to require a tighter hold on the volume reins which few seem to possess or understand. There are equally bad mandolin players who possess a "banjo killer" and make everybody else fight to be heard. A mandolinist with no concept of dynamics can just as easily ruin an otherwise pleasant jam session.

The banjo jokes are just that. Jokes. Take note that you don't typically hear banjo jokes around a banjo player who is really bad and annoying everybody. I've never figured that one out...

Joy to all,
Ken

[John Flynn]

In old-time, loudness is not the issue with banjos. As most of you know, OT banjos are open-backed and played without fingerpicks. Before I mention the banjo issues in OT, let me caveat that I absolutely love good five-string claw-hammer banjo playing and a good OT banjo player is a joy to play with. What I am about to say does not apply to the really good players and it does not apply to other types of banjos, such as a tenor banjo.

The issue with OT banjos is that it seems a lot of people choose them becuase they think they are easier than the other instruments and therefore there are a lot of OT banjo people who are just not that good as musicians. They can't tune thier instruments quickly or well and they can't seem to hear when they are out of tune. They restrict the group to only playing in one key until everyone takes a break so they can re-tune. They often don't understand how scales and chords are constructed. They misunderstand the banjo's role in a fiddle tune and they can't even comprehend any role for a banjo in anything that is not a typical fiddle tune, like a waltz, a polka or a jig. They don't have "hang back" modes of playing. On the mando, if I can't keep up, I just play chords. On the guitar if I can't keep up, I drop the bass runs and just do single chord strums until I get it. Bad OT banjo players seem to have only two options: Drop out entirely and look upset, or play badly at full-tilt.

When my current band formed our #1 rule was: No Banjos!

[morgan]

Ken, I think a mando player with a bad sense of dynamics actually has to work harder to ruin a session, because the mando is intrinsically quieter, but I agree they can do it. I wasn't trying to bash the banjo brethren - the post asks for an explanation of "banjo hatred," which I agree is more of a joke than otherwise, and I think my explanation is a fair characterization of its roots.

Personally, I love playing with banjo players, not only because I like the sound but also because I can tell banjo jokes, and because they drown out my mistakes! I've always liked the old-timey sound the best, but maybe i've been lucky to play with good old-time players.

[John Rosett]

"i've never met a banjo player who is toothless and a hillbilly" -mandofiddle
a couple of years ago, my band was playing in a tiny town in western montana. as we were setting up, a little, old, hillbilly (montana style) comes up to us and says,"ya'll got a banjo picker?" when we said no, he smiled, revealing his one rotting tooth, and said "want me to jump up there?"
at the time, it seemed funny, but we later agreed that it was kinda scary.
john

[doanepoole]

History is replete with b@njo players who played up the hillbilly image. That probably has a lot to do with it. Earl Skruggs did alot to change that image.

For me, though, its the volume...and the drunkenness, and the constant need to retune. All jokes in good fun.

[JGWoods]

"... Bad OT banjo players seem to have only two options: Drop out entirely and look upset, or play badly at full-tilt. "
I got more options than that...I can practice drooling, brush my tooth, scratch myself, there's lots of stuff to do on stage while waiting for a tune I can play to come along....
so there.
gw

[Potosimando]

I was at a Grisman concert (DGQ) a few years back...and for the fourth encore piece David came on with a banjo in hand--and he played it, of course. #For what that's worth.

There was quite a bit of laughter when Grisman first walked on stage with the banjo. I haven't been to a DGQ concert in awhile, so maybe that's a regular feature in his concerts these days.

[mad dawg]

For me, though, its the volume...and the drunkenness, and the constant need to retune. #All jokes in good fun.
Don't some of the other musicians in BG have issues with mandolin tuning as well, as in the following joke?


Q: Why does a mandolin have 8 strings?

A: To increase the odds that one of them will be in tune. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[John Rosett]

"the mandolin-if it COULD be tuned, you'd think somebody would'a done it by now!"
-some guitar player

[ShaneJ]

What's the deal with the banjo hatred?

Have you heard one of those things? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[WireBoy]

banjo hatred ? #banjo jokes ? #HA !!!

Here is the motherload of all instrument jokes. #there is surely a category to offend one and all!!!

http://www.mit.edu/~jcb/jokes/

[mad dawg]

Should we be offended that mandolins are not listed at the above joke link?

[rixter]

I was at a Grisman concert (DGQ) a few years back...and for the fourth encore piece David came on with a banjo in hand--and he played it, of course.

Ha ha! I saw one of those concerts. It"s a great way to make sure you don"t have to do a fifth encore!

seriously though< check out this website: #

http://www.haruteq.com/banjoear.htm

here"s a quote:
"Some of the "better" banjos can produce some pretty impressive sound volumes - while laying into the strings real good, I've clocked some of them at around 93~94 dBA when I got all wound up. The loudest I've ever heard was an archtop cranking out an incredible 98 dBA."

98 decibels? Holy cow, no wonder we hate them! Who wants to play with an acoustic instrument that can cause hearing loss? # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[dixiecreek]

I play mandolin AND banjo, and I'm happy, dangit! ;)

[Samando]

Thank you, Hannah! Me too! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[otterly2k]

Hey, WireBoy, thanks for the musician jokes link. Maybe we should send them this one:

How many mandolin players does it take to change a light bulb?

Two. One to change the bulb, and one to blame the banjo player for breaking it in the first place!

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[mandodon]

A mandolin player, a guitar player, and a b@njo player got together for weekly rehersals. Before playing, they always ate lunch together.

One day, the mandolin player opened his lunch, and said, "If I get a salami sandwhich one more time, I'm walking over to that bridge and jumping over."

The guitar player opened his lunch, and said, "If I get a roast beef sandwhich one more time, I'm walking over to that bridge and jumping over."

The b@njo player opened his lunch, and said, "If I get a bologna sandwhich one more time, I'm walking over to that bridge and jumping over."

The next week, they were eating lunch before rehearsal. The mandolin player opened his lunch and found a salami sandwhich, so he went over to the bridge and jumped off to his death. The guitar player opened his lunch and found a roast beef sandwhich, so he went over to the bridge and jumped off to his death. The b@njo player opened his lunch and found a bologna sandwhich, so he went over to the bridge and jumped off to his death.

The families shared a joint funeral reception. The wives of the deceased musicians got together, and the mandolin player's wife said, "If I'd only known he hated salami so much, I would have made him something different." The guitar player's wife said, "If I'd only known he hated roast beef so much, I would have made him something different."

They both looked over to the b@njo players wife, whos said, "Don't look at me! He makes his own lunch!"

[mrbook]

Banjo jokes are funny if you can learn to laugh at yourself once in awhile. If you can't laugh at yourself, you probably shouldn't be playing the banjo.

[John Rosett]

if you can't laugh at yourself, you probably shouldn't be playing the mandolin either.
come to think of it, if you can't laugh at yourself, you should probably give up music and go into politics...
john

[solerydr]

If you tell the soundman to hide the banjo if he goes out of tune, you never have to worry about it.....banjos are never in tune!

[mad dawg]

come to think of it, if you can't laugh at yourself, you should probably give up music and go into politics
...and then the rest of us could laugh at you even more. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[mandorado]

Here's a new one ...

Why aren't there any amateur OT banjo pickers in the future?
-- Because Mando Johnny went postal on them.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[mandroid]

Perfect revenge: Mandolin-Banjos !

(metal resonators are a form of banjo head , are they not?)
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[mad dawg]

Check out this on-topic disclaimer at the bottom of a current Freshwater OM auction on eBay:

"Item is sold AS-IS, AS DESCRIBED. #No returns, please. #I encourage you to ask questions, request photos, and check my feedback, I'll check yours. #If you have less than 99% #or are a banjo player please contact me. #Of course, I can't imagine a mandolin player having less than 99%, but... #Shipping will be a flat 30.00 anywhere in the USA, it will be insured, and packed well."

(Here is a link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10179&item=3736933701&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW) to the auction.)

[grandmainger]

Thanks for that folks, you've opened my eyes on a whole new world of fun!

[John Flynn]

Why aren't there any amateur OT banjo pickers in the future?
-- Because Mando Johnny went postal on them.
Somebody's gotta do it! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Larroman]

The best pickup to put on your banjo?
FORD...! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[mando bandage]

Q. What's the difference between a banjo and a chainsaw?

A. The chainsaw has more dynamic range.

But seriously folks, isn't it really just a grown up version of "my dog's better than your dog?" You know, kinda like Rotary vs. Kiwanis, Michigan vs. Ohio State, etc.

R

[rixter]

Have to admit, I owe a certain banjo player a big thank you for dragging my sorry butt out of the slump I've been in and up on stage in front of a few hundred people last week.

[frets1]

I have a buddy who plays the banjo. One evening, while on the way to a pickin' he stopped at the store for a Coke. He returned to his car to find someone had broken the side window. When he looked in the back seat, there were TWO BANJOS! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Sellars]

whehehe! instrument jokes are the best!