Here is what Bill Collings play and owns...

[Rick Schmidlin]

I wrote to Collings to find what Bill plays and owns and here is the responce:

>>I can't say that Bill is much of a mandolin player, but he does own a number of mandolins. He has the first MF5 (serial #001) as well as a Gilchrist varnish F, Kimble two-point, and several vintage mandolins. Bill really doesn't play much guitar, either, but he's always known and understood the sound that he's after.

Alex Rueb<<

[sgarrity]

That's very interesting information. I wonder how someone that doesn't really play much has the ability to design such great instruments?

[JEStanek]

It would seem to me, based on my recollection of builders posts, many of them aren't hot pickers but they can (my words) feel the wood to get a consistent signature tone they want to build. There are resources available for Loar specs as a good starting point for building (at least building archtop mandolins). I also think many small shop builders are busier building than honing their playing chops. Also, many builders who make (often very good sought after) mandolins, the mandolin isn't their main instrument.

FWIW, I like Bill Collings collection. Pretty enviable.

Jamie

[Chris Biorkman]

Gilchrist is a pretty good picker.

[AlanN]

and the term "several vintage mandolins" can mean lots of things :whistling:

[Santiago]

Was Lloyd Loar much of a musician? (Not trying to elevate Mr. Collings to God status, but to keep Mr. Loar's image real.)

[pjlama]

Uh, yes Mr. Loar was a very accomplished musician.

[first string]

Was Lloyd Loar much of a musician? (Not trying to elevate Mr. Collings to God status, but to keep Mr. Loar's image real.)

I was under the impression that he was primarily a musician. At least originally...But I'm no expert. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than I will chime in.

[fwoompf]

Gilchrist is a pretty good picker.

Heck yeah he is!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTcPmUqFE0c

edit: this one has better sound quality http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXO2Z1wX0_M

[Rob Powell]

To paraphrase what Jamie said, a lot of builders are simply lovers of art, music and woodwork. Building a fine instrument satisfies many appetites ;-)

I'll never be a Thile or Marshall or Bush...but I play because I love it. I suspect many builders do the same and many of them succeed more in the building arena then they do in the playing arena.

I think the real prerequisites are a musical ear and woodworking skill....

[sgarrity]

I understand builders not being "great" players. But from everything I've read about Bill Collings, he doesn't play much at all, guitar or mandolin. I saw somewhere that he's into racing Miatas. Guitar builder by day, race car driver by night.....interesting.

I do seem to remember a thread a while back where someone brought up violin makers and how many of them aren't really players either.

[John Flynn]

Heck yeah he is!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTcPmUqFE0c

edit: this one has better sound quality http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXO2Z1wX0_M
I was in the audience for the performance on the first clip. I definitely concur about Gilchrist. He is a great singer, too.

I've heard that Rolfe Gerhardt is not a mando player. Also, Bill Bussman told me that he is mostly a bass player and being left handed, doesn't get to play his own creations much.

[Rick Schmidlin]

My friend Roy Noble can not play guitar but has built wonderfull guitars for over 45 years. Listen to samples on Gregg Boyds sight.

[Mandobar]

loar was an engineer first and foremost. he left gibson and went on to design and manufacture refrigerators.

whatever bill plays or does his company makes great instruments. as my grandpappy used to say, "it's not what a man says. it will always be his actions and his work that speaks loud for the world to hear."

i think first and foremost bill's an engineer. whether building guitars (he makes a mean archtop), mandolins or race cars. he seems to have the talent and to attract the talent to run a pretty darn successful company.

[pjlama]

According to this, he was a musician first. Here's the link from Roger Siminoff's site
http://www.siminoff.net/pages/loar_background.html

[SternART]

Lawrence Smart & Michael Heiden are excellent multi-instrumentalists.
That Loar guy could certainly play too......could even make a saw sing!

[thistle3585]

My playing has suffered since I took up building. My practice time is now spent in the shop and my lesson money is spent on tools. It really went downhill when I got a waiting list because then I really couldn't waste time playing.

[Patrick Gunning]

Since the topic seems to have derailed in this direction, another builder who has some real chops is our own Dan Voight...

[Dan Eaton]

"Gilchrist is a pretty good picker."

I sat right behind him in the Bluegrass ensemble at this year's Mandolin Symposium, and can vouch for the fact that he's a fine picker, indeed.

He let me play his mandolin, but wouldn't swap it for my Collings MT.

Crikey !!

Dan

[Rolfe]

I was in the audience for the performance on the first clip. I definitely concur about Gilchrist. He is a great singer, too.

I've heard that Rolfe Gerhardt is not a mando player. Also, Bill Bussman told me that he is mostly a bass player and being left handed, doesn't get to play his own creations much.

Caught, uh, red handed. I was the kid in second grade who was told to move his mouth but make no sound when the class had singing lessons. And when I went for mandolin lessons about fifteen years ago, arthritis took over my hands and covered up a lack of talent. I always tell people that those who build the finest race cars don't get to drive them. What is important for a builder, I think, is a preoccupation with listening, not playing. When I started building the two-point mandolins, I used to hire Jim Payne, a fine mandolin teacher, to evaluate each mandolin I had built while I listened, and I still get expert players to run different models and variations through their paces while I listen.

[Big Joe]

Loar was certainly a good musician. Our late great Charlie Derrington was a very good musician and could play mandolin, guitar, banjo, and bass with great skill. He had a very good ear and understood melody and harmony quite well. He started as a musician and became a repairman/builder.

I don't think being a great player has anything to do with building. It certainly does not hurt, but it is not as important as being able to understand the materials and tools needed to build a great instrument. Lynn Dudenbostal can play well enough, but it certainly does not get in the way of building a great mandolin :) . The same can be said for many of our top builders. For many the love of the instrument started with playing and eventually turned to building...either from appreciation for the instrument or to find a certain tonal or playability element they felt was lacking in the instrument they had....or to experiment for a sound they had not heard in others work. In any case, whatever drives them, I am glad they do what they do both as a player or builder.

[Timbofood]

Nicely put,Rolfe! I like the racing car builder analogy.

[Bill Van Liere]

Mike Keminitzer plays a little mando but mainly plays old time banjo, he builds pretty good stuff.

[Lee]

You'd be surprised at the amount of top flight piano tuners who aren't players.

[Michael Cameron]

I've always enjoyed listening to Will Kimble pick and sing.
No need to comment on the magic of his instruments.

I feel lucky to have a Derrington Gibson and a Kimble mandolin.

c

[Bob DeVellis]

Loar was definitely a player! Jimmie Johnstone, before him, was as well. Gibson seems to often have had a hot professional player on the senior management staff. The real question is, how much of a builder was Loar? He certainly had vital input and I've seen pictures of him in a shop apron, but is it accurate to call him a luthier? No dig intended here (I greatly admire him). I'm just wondering how hands-on he was, because I have no idea. It would be cool if he were very hands on but certainly no knock if he was primarily a concept guy.

[GTG]

loar was an engineer first and foremost. he left gibson and went on to design and manufacture refrigerators.


What a great trivia tidbit! I wonder how many Loar-signed fridges are out there...

[Capt. E]

I remember reading somewhere that Lloyd Loar did not place the mandolin very high on the pantheon of musical instruments. He really didn't much like inacurracies of tone they produced and was never completely satisfied with the "improvements" he produced at Gibson. I suppose that, being a type A personality, he was never truly satisfied and always thought more improvements were possible. He was an accomplished musician/composer, but his living was made working as an acoustic engineer, especially on electronic amplification of keyboards. Gibson was only a few years of his life, but what a few years it was!