Do you play in a band? [Archive] - Mandolin Cafe Forum

Goodin

Oct-08-2008, 9:46am

A few of the guys in my bluegrass band tried to push everyone to wear overalls. I wasnt having it. I'm just not into overalls, plus the buttons and straps can scratch up a mando in a heartbeat. The Steep Canyon Rangers do a good job of dressing up in stylish suits. Like the Del McCoury band. I like the idea of dressing up in a bluegrass band..i think its classy, if the band is good enough to pull it off! I play mostly Irish now and sometimes we try to dress in all black, to match the pints of Guinness!

TonyP

Oct-08-2008, 10:13am

This always seems to come up sooner or later. I always wanted us to wear team shirts, like matching bowling shirts until I found out the F-150's already did. The old band I was in(Boys In the Woods), before I got in, had a set of old Boy Scout shirts they wore. The bass player got them from GoodWill. I mostly have nice Hawaiian shirts because they are comfortable and look ok. Better than tee shirts. Where I get in trouble is I have a hi thermostat anyway. Then having to set up the PA, I get really hot, and I hate to be all sweaty on stage. So, most times from about May to Sept, I'm in nice hiking shorts.
While I don't condone being a slob on stage, I also play bush league Bluegrass. Can't get too worked up about getting suits when most audiences out here don't take it that serious. Besides, I'd have rent one as I don't own a suit, and probably never will.

lgc

Oct-08-2008, 10:36am

Not in refrence to anything posted here-
I think it is important to respect the music and not dress like a characature that reinforces negative steroetypes of the culture that created the music you are playing.

Wesley

Oct-08-2008, 11:02am

When we do chuch services we wear our Sunday best. Any other gigs we'll either do jeans or khakis. I'll ofter wear a vest so that I have extra pockets for picks.

MikeEdgerton

Oct-08-2008, 11:37am

We generally wear the same color jeans and shirts. It looks a little more like we belong together.

first string

Oct-08-2008, 11:57am

Not to stir the pot, but I've never understood the intense opposition to T shirts that some people in the BG world seem to have. If it's not your preference, that is perfectly understandable, but I've heard people claim that wearing jeans and/or a T is downright disrespectful. Not sure where the reasoning for that comes from. I mean, come on. When I go to a concert, I'm interested in the music, not what the performers are wearing.

lgc

Oct-08-2008, 12:07pm

"Not sure where the reasoning for that comes from."

I think if you do some research you'll see where the resoning comes from. You might not agree with it but you'll at least have a refrence point to grasp the logic used in that argument.

mandocaster

Oct-08-2008, 12:16pm

Check out

http://www.octanecreative.com/Parodyville/worst_album_covers/index.html

Bluegrass bands, in particular, have to be careful about dressing the same.

MikeEdgerton

Oct-08-2008, 12:27pm

I have no problem with people wearing t-shirts
http://www.fandangosky.com/photos/0003.jpg

Paul Kotapish

Oct-08-2008, 12:29pm

Four bands and a couple of duets--no dress codes in any of them, unless it's a wedding or a wake.

Mark Sullivan

Oct-08-2008, 12:31pm

Usually I play in a storefront mission [2-3 times a week that is]. I might be considered an intermediate beginner mandolin player. Though I own a sport coat or two, I don't own a suit. I generally dress the same wether at work, at home, at church or wherever. The one church band I almost started playing with did not have a dress code. The church I go to now with my fiance do wear suits, but the population there is older and the church is shrinking. All that and a dollar might get a cup of coffee.

greg_tsam

Oct-08-2008, 12:44pm

I dress comfortably and im clean. Depends on the arena, really.

Windflite

Oct-08-2008, 12:49pm

Our band (now defunct) decided to go with matching button down shirts and jeans for our 'uniform'. The members chose whether they wanted short sleeve or long and we had all of them embroidered with our band logo. Seemed to work out pretty well.

Jim Broyles

Oct-08-2008, 12:50pm

Hey Mike, how'd that band get the diabeetus guy to play mandolin for them? I'm guessin' the guitar player didn't get the memo about the matching jeans! :)

MikeEdgerton

Oct-08-2008, 12:57pm

We let her slide, nobody wanted to argue with her. Hey, I used to sell oatmeal before I got the new TV gig.

Chief

Oct-08-2008, 12:58pm

Play in 4 groups- all have same dress code- wear what you like. It seems I'm usually the only one that dresses up. And by that I mean wearing whatever strikes my fancy when I go to dress for the gig. I've accumulated a collection of funky to dressy stuff over the years. So I can do the country gentleman or the cowboy or one of my many personalized bowling shirts or whatever. I really enjoy having fun with it. The two women in my main group (Sweetgrass) think I'm a hoot. Hey- your're in the entertainment biz, right? Guitar player in 2 of my groups never wears anything but jeans and a t shirt. That's cool, but BORING!

Jim Broyles

Oct-08-2008, 1:06pm

Ya know, Wilford Brimley is a great name for a band.

woodwizard

Oct-08-2008, 1:21pm

No dress code except we require a shirt & pants. Hats & shoes are optional :grin:

mandocrucian

Oct-08-2008, 1:26pm

The "individual identity" costume approach:

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2006/04/18/TinyKISS_03_wideweb__470x309,0.jpg

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/4557/85012gclcm8.jpg

http://splinteredsunrise.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/village_people_narrowweb__300x2880.jpg

mzuch

Oct-08-2008, 1:26pm

Check out

http://www.octanecreative.com/Parody...ers/index.html

Bluegrass bands, in particular, have to be careful about dressing the same.

Hey! That's my Congressman on the Orleans cover!

allenhopkins

Oct-08-2008, 1:39pm

The Flint Hill Folk dress 19th-century. Looks like this. (http://www.allenhopkins.org/flinthillfolk.html)

Other bands, well, try to look decent. Sometimes we think about whether a particular gig is "jeans" or "dress-up." Also, we may discuss colors.

I always wear a hat when performing, and often a vest. No "dress code," I just like to.

Ken Froman

Oct-08-2008, 1:57pm

Christs Servants and Almost Bluegrass No dresscodes

Andy Nichols

Oct-08-2008, 5:13pm

I play mandolin in our family band. My wife and two daughters.I think you should look your best.I admire the Del McCoury's and Doyle Lawson's the way they dress.But if a band wants to wear jeans and T shirts,thats ok, just wear your best.Some bands look very sloppy and unprofessional.

fishdawg40

Oct-08-2008, 5:51pm

The Del McCoury Band play as good as they look. Or if you want to dress like that, you better back it up in skill. They look like the Mafioso (which doesn't really exist anyways...).

To answer the question, yes I'm in a band and no there's not a dress code. We're way to laid back for that. But that being said, I've been wearing more collared shirts out then I have in a long time. Other members of the band sometimes wear Dead shirts near 20 years old.

mrbook

Oct-08-2008, 6:23pm

I play regularly in two bands. In one we wear black jeans (or pants), blue denim shirts, and often a black vest (pockets for picks, capos, etc.). I sometimes wear a tie for special gigs, but no one else has followed my lead.

The other band dresses in black pants and red shirts according to the preference of the guy we call our leader (no matter how much he denies it). He bought us the shirts.

With both bands we have been offered jobs because "we knew how to be professional" according to promoters. We wanted to look neat and look like a band. We also usually wear Hawaiian shirts in summer - so far, not matching ones. We tried suits only once, and it seemed like overkill.

I once read an interview with Josh Graves where he said something like, "I don't want to see someone on stage who looks like he should be sitting next to me in the audience." Sounds reasonable to me.

mandocaster

Oct-08-2008, 6:46pm

I guess it depends on the genre and setting. If you are playing solo mandolin for an oil company dinner for top execs, you had better wear a tux (if that is what the agent or client wants, anyway). If you are in a jam band at a Pacifica radio benefit, and you show up in a dark suit, people will think you are a federal agent.

There is no fixed answer other than to dress appropriately.

Leevon DeCourley

Oct-09-2008, 12:02am

The band I am with very rarely hits the stage without our suits and ties. Well actually I don't remember ever playing when that wasn't what we was wearing. It seems to help you appear more profesional to the audience.

Bertram Henze

Oct-09-2008, 4:56am

Not my group, but one I saw recently: The dutch group Rapalje put much effort in not only dress completely Scottish (their act looking much like the movie set of Braveheart), but they also carefully hide any stage electronics within their scruffy attire. The fiddler (http://www.rapalje.com/Photos/photoview.php?foto_serie=107&foto_nr=02), for instance, wears a leather strap over one shoulder with a bag on one end and a rose stuck in it. The rose is really a microphone, the bag contains the transmitter.

Bertram

Tim2723

Oct-09-2008, 5:36am

I've played in everything from tuxedo (had three of them in the closet at one time) to T-shirts. Much prefer the T-shirt. Spent a five-year tour of duty as a church organist wearing those long choir robes. Those are a pain to play in.

Timbofood

Oct-09-2008, 6:38am

Once upon a time, the guitar players mother made us several sets of shirts, when there was a girl in the band she made her a dress to match, it was all fun. We bought a few matching things then got away from it. Now after years of "just wash yourself" being the only requirement, we seem to be drifting back to a "color coordinated" look. The guitar player bought a very nice burgundy cowboy shirt, I found a cool similar color but not identical one. We can only wonder what the banjo player will find! If we were working more, I would get a kick out of the "Johdpur" look! Never liked the "slovenly, dull look" of anything. I agree with the metal on overalls being a hazard! Used to play now and again with a very lovely blond who had a penchant for them though.....Ahh, Youth!

Jim Gallaher

Oct-09-2008, 6:59am

My band's only requirement is to wear the "official" logo baseball cap & clean blue jeans. The shirt choice varies with the comfort level of each musician. I may be the only one who owns a suit and tie, which I've worn to work for 36 years (not the same one!). I welcome the opportunity to wear an open-collar button-down white shirt when I'm on stage.

The fiddler, who wears a tux for his symphony appearances, usually wears a t-shirt. He enjoys the difference. BTW, he doesn't like anything that restricts his bowing arm.

For us, Dress Code Rule #1 is "Be Comfortable First".

Fred Keller

Oct-09-2008, 7:02am

We've got two uniforms: business casual (dress shirts, khakis or better, and a maybe a vest or tie) and our "uniform" for special shows. Either way, we'd feel naked without hats :grin:

mandocaster

Oct-09-2008, 7:32am

I guess audience members react differently to band attire. Unless it is a formal event or a costume event(renaissance or dickens), I come to hear music. I could care less what the band is wearing. Actually that is not quite true - if a bluegrass band wears overalls I think that they are spreading the cheese pretty thick. I'll still enjoy it though!

Fred Keller

Oct-09-2008, 7:49am

For us, the uni serves two purposes I think. First, it seems to help us focus on the music in the same way that for an actor the costume helps connect with a role. It helps me anyway.

Plus, at certain gigs we enjoy putting on a show, most of which centers around the music we play but some of which involves what we look like and how we choreograph ourselves around the single mic.

It certainly doesn't bug me if bands decide not to "dress up." Some of my favorite performers have looked either outlandish or downright slovenly. But I do think it's the case that whatever an artist chooses to wear on stage is part of their act. The stage is a little artificial world that we create and recreate every time we (by we I mean musicians--artists--in general) step on. Everything the audience sees, hears, smells, etc., is part of it. Choosing to wear t-shirt and jeans or tuxedo and tie communicates something about you to the audience: not necessarily "bad" or "good" but something.

Steve Perry

Oct-09-2008, 9:22am

The group I've been playing with generally tries to coordinate by wearing dark slacks or jeans and a light colored shirt. The level of "dressiness" depends on the gig. Weddings are dress slacks and shirts, but this weekend, we're playing a party at a farm so it's jeans and nice shirt. Our biggest thing is just don't come to the gig looking like you've been working in the garden all day. One of my pet peeves, though is somebody who wears a bright white sneaker, tennis, athletic type shoe on stage.:disbelief: Don't know why, but it just looks wrong to me.:confused:

farmerjones

Oct-09-2008, 9:28am

So far just clean and comfortable mostly. Near period attire for rendezvous.

I've witnessed this anomally from the audience and came up with an addage: Don't let the audience think you spent more on costumes than on music lessons.

Perry Babasin

Oct-09-2008, 12:43pm

Two different worship teams; slightly different line-up each week; 7 or 8 players and singers; 2 services; must wear clothing, but it's all California Casual.

all4Him.............. Perry

Ted Eschliman

Oct-09-2008, 1:28pm

I may be guilty of indulging in a little too much What Not to Wear (http://tlc.discovery.com/fansites/whatnottowear/whatnottowear.html) (wife and I live in daily fear that Stacy and Clinton are going to show up at our house), but I think at minimum, whatever you wear in a band situation ought to attempt to "flatter" your physique. Face it, some of us middle aged guys just don't look good in a T-shirt. Maybe mowing the lawn (with shorts and black dress socks), but not on stage.

Might be all right for some of you "kids," or Boomers committed to occasional ab crunches...

mrbook

Oct-09-2008, 3:54pm

I'm not into the suit thing, but I think a band should look neat. Lately a couple guys in one of my bands have started to leave their shirt tails out, and it doesn't look as cool as they think. I've heard a few comments from friends in the audience. I don't want to start an arguemnt about it, but a don't think we are always making the the good impression we once did. Promoters want more than good music - they expect you to put on a good show, and appearance is part of the show.

Denny Gies

Oct-09-2008, 4:10pm

The bands that I have been a part of have run the gamut from matching cowboy shirts, to no code except to not embarrass us to every wearing Hawaiian shirts; this was my favorite.

Randi Gormley

Oct-09-2008, 6:55pm

We have two different group thoughts: about half the band ordered golf shirts with a logo on them (we don't have a real logo, this was just the name of the band and crossed instruments) and the others didn't so it depends on who shows up for a gig whether the majority have matching shirts or not. but that's for fairs and St. Patrick Day gigs. Normally, it's dress-down stuff, jeans and neat t-shirts or something green (we're an irish band). For weddings and fancy gigs, we wear what amounts to business dress. I wonder whether the age of the band members matters? Most of the people in my band (all 35 of us) are either retired or older than 40, and tend to dress more conservatively anyway.

Salty Dog

Oct-09-2008, 10:17pm

I play in a gospel band and we do have a dress code - white shirts, dark pants, and Flatt & Scruggs type bow tie (available from vintage clothing people on the web). If we are playing a church picnic, we go casual. We receive many compliments on how professional we look and sound when we are "in uniform" - fewer when we are not. Bottom line, your appearance does affect your audience's perception of the total experience. On the other hand, I am not going to wear a white shirt to a church bar-b-que.

Ivan Kelsall

Oct-10-2008, 1:37am

If a band is good,i don't really mind how they dress. But i think that a band looks more 'professional'
(to me), if they have a degree of uniformity - they seem 'together' rather than a group of individuals. I've always prefered to see a band wearing suits ever since i saw Bill Monroe & the Bluegrass Boys over here in 1966,they just looked as good as they sounded,totally professional in every way. I don't play i n a band any more,but when i had my band back in the '60's,we wore matching Sports jackets,trousers,shirts & ties,just to show a degree of 'professionalism' as we saw it. Most of the band photos we saw back then,showed the vast majority of B/G bands wearing suits & we wanted to look (& sound) as good as they did. It seemed that only with the arrival of the 'Folk Music' boom,that the newer B/G bands adopted a more 'casual' mode of dress,whereas the well established bands wore suits,
Saska :)

Nighttrain

Oct-10-2008, 10:57am

I think that it depends on the venue you are playing, as well as how you want to come across to your audience.

Michael Eck

Oct-10-2008, 11:29am

Over the past few years I've found that I get more gigs and make more money if the band dresses up -- so we do!

In The Gospel Train we wear vests, suits, ties and hats for a vaguely early 20th century look. What we do is a historical/musicological presentation, so that works well.

In Ramblin Jug Stompers we each have a sort of "look" of our own, which varies from gig to gig but its always indentifiable from headgear etc. I had a shirt embroidered with the band name and my stage name, which I often wear.

My only rule is "No shorts, no sandals and no Hawaiian shirts. Our banjo player breaks these rules consistently. Go figure.

UnityGain

Oct-10-2008, 12:16pm

Well, tonight I'm going to play in my with my workshirt turned inside out. Day jobs pay the bills after all and I'm going strait from work to the gig. Should have thought about it before hand and brought a spare shirt, oh well.

Mandojulie

Oct-10-2008, 3:43pm

I went to a show last night - shows around here are few and far between. The group was dressed appropriately, all in denim with sparkles. The three men sported cowboy type hats. Since the lighting was all theatrical style from above you couldn't see the men's faces above the upper lip. Baaaad costume choice, very distracting and annoying.

The sound mix was horrible too, but that's off topic.

Julie

I wish I had my $56.00 back.

mandopete

Oct-10-2008, 4:07pm

Do you have a dress code?

Why yes, we do...

mandocaster

Oct-10-2008, 4:37pm

Why yes, we do...

Now that's professional!

Crowder

Oct-10-2008, 4:41pm

allenhopkins

Oct-10-2008, 6:52pm

I WAS in a band, but I got frustrated with certain aspects of it and posted my complaints here as a way of getting feedback on how to approach my bandmates.

Someone emailed the thread to the leader of the band, and he called and kicked me out the same day!

I remember that thread, and thought you were very reasonable in outlining your musical differences with the leader (wasn't he the high-ego fiddler?) and the rest of the band.

I guess just because you were reasonable, doesn't mean the others were.

Andrew Faltesek

Oct-10-2008, 9:05pm

Oh my...I guess the last time I even put much thought into my "outfit" was wearing a pair of jeans, a tan Mountain Hardware shirt(ventilated for performance comfort), and a small mando enameled pin! I figure each person has their own look and "statement" if they so prefer...

Jack Roberts

Oct-15-2008, 8:43am

Because of the nature of our band and our venue, we wear "Casual business attire". The guitar player and I tend to wear slacks and guayaberas, the bass player likes to wear polo shirts, and the other guys are retired, so they wear what looks like "golf course" clothes to me.

We tried Aloha shirts and jeans, but that looked wrong. The guayaberas are good because there are lots of pockets for picks, tuners, and capos.

Timbofood

Oct-15-2008, 11:15am

Too bad Crowder, but, one might say that "this ain't Vegas." Start a new band and gig in full dress (white tie and tails) but, only after 6. My badn used to do the tuxedo thing now and then, back when I had 3 full tuxes and would let the boys use them. I am down to one now and that is about 40 pounds thinner than I am now.

greg_tsam

Oct-15-2008, 3:40pm

Sam bush looks like he just woke up sometimes, Dawg can be Cali casual (If that is what Cali casual is) and Tony Rice always looks like a Dapper Dan with some bling. Mark O'Conner always wears a hat and Jerry Douglas wears whatever is the current fashion. Dow Watson is country boy casual with button snaps/long sleeves and jeans.

There really is no dress, is there? But when those boys take the stage I could care less what they wear b/c they play so beautifully and honest.

I try to dress venue appropriate with comfort being my first concern. I've worn tye dyes, t-shirts and cuban shirts. Slacks and jeans. But I always looked clean, prepared and presentable. My playing says the rest, as humble as it is.

Aran

Oct-15-2008, 5:54pm

I play in a Burlesque Bluegrass Celtic Band and our dancing girls have tassles which swing around 360 degrees with some fleshy encouragement. Then the usual Can Can type skirt and high kicks with fishnets....

The guys are usually in purple or black velvet and top hats.....

The Banjer player wears some odd stuff though...

Yep reckon it's a good idea to dress up (naturally).... And make a bit of an effort as you are entertainers and are there to put on a show..

Dressing up in whatever way heightens the feeling celebration and shows folks that you care....

Although how you dress should really be reflective of the vibe of the personnel and music of the band.

MitchellB

Oct-15-2008, 6:11pm

We can dress alike when the situation calls for it, but most of the time we seldom pay any attention to any dress code. Sometimes we try to dress up better than the audience without trying to match, but usually we dress to equal the audience. On rare occations we purposely dress worse than anyone in the audience.

Nolan

Oct-15-2008, 6:13pm

A good compromise between dressed up and casual is nice jeans, solid shirts (t-shirts, button up, whatever) and a sportcoat. It's comfortable and looks like you made an effort to dress nice.

Bret Roberts

Oct-16-2008, 1:35am

[QUOTE=Aran;589227]I play in a Burlesque Bluegrass Celtic Band and our dancing girls have tassles which swing around 360 degrees with some fleshy encouragement. Then the usual Can Can type skirt and high kicks with fishnets....

The guys are usually in purple or black velvet and top hats.....

The Banjer player wears some odd stuff though...

QUOTE]

I think that after making a statement like that; “Man Law” dictates that you must include photos of your band playing live! :)) :)) :))

Rick Cadger

Oct-16-2008, 3:53am

Yes, in a band.

Absolutely no dress code. Chaos is one of the band's trademarks and selling points - Seriously.

mrbook

Oct-16-2008, 7:28am

I used to just go onstage in my everyday clothes (usually neat but casual), thinking the stage image thing didn't matter. Gradually, I realized that performing isn't just about musicianship, but just as much about putting on a good show, and I began picking clothes to wear when performing. It might be jeans and a $5 work shirt, but it was an outfit I chose for a purpose. In a band, I usually wear pants, a nice shirt, vest, and often a tie. The tie is optional because no one else in the band usually wears one.

I couple years ago, I had to go on a local TV show to promote our band in an upcoming event. I dressed in pants, band shirt, and my "Mr. Potato Head" tie (I didn't say what kind of ties I usually wear). Also on the show was a local business leader in a 3-piece suit, moussed-up hair, and looking a lot better than when I usually see him on the street. I thought to myself, "That's why he is where he is, and that's why I am where I am." I still dress the same way.

When someone who wants to hire your band wants a photo, it means that they want to see what you look like on stage. Appearance does matter, and your appearance may determine the type of audience you attract.

f5gibson

Oct-16-2008, 9:20am

I have been in a few bands. In the first one we tried wearing matching shirts. The banjo player griped the whole time. In the second band ( with same banjo player ) the discussion came up but I guess the banjo player won out as we never wore matching anything. I'm currently playing in a relatively new gospel band ( no banjo). We recently had a conversation about dress and stage appearance. So far we all have different opinions on the subject but hopefully we will "iron" out our differences soon.

I am glad I found this thread. It's great to read all the different ideas presented here. I especially liked the following comments:

Fred Keller: "It certainly doesn't bug me if bands decide not to "dress up." Some of my favorite performers have looked either outlandish or downright slovenly. But I do think it's the case that whatever an artist chooses to wear on stage is part of their act. The stage is a little artificial world that we create and recreate every time we (by we I mean musicians--artists--in general) step on. Everything the audience sees, hears, smells, etc., is part of it. Choosing to wear t-shirt and jeans or tuxedo and tie communicates something about you to the audience: not necessarily "bad" or "good" but something."

mrbook: "Promoters want more than good music - they expect you to put on a good show, and appearance is part of the show."

Michael Eck: "Over the past few years I've found that I get more gigs and make more money if the band dresses up -- so we do!"

mrbook: "When someone who wants to hire your band wants a photo, it means that they want to see what you look like on stage. Appearance does matter, and your appearance may determine the type of audience you attract."

Great info!

Thanks!

lgc

Oct-16-2008, 9:40am

I think that dressing nicely show respect for the audience.

Most audiences don't know the difference between good musicians and bad musicians. They don't know whether someone has put in 1,000,000,000 hours of pratice or 500. What they do know is that if someone dresses like they do in their living room on Sat. morning then there is a good chance that playing out is not a special event for them. People dress well at almost every other special event-church, weddings, presentations, community functions-why should palying out be any different?
Monore said that it isn't the audiences privilege to hear the music but the musicians privilege to play for others. Dressing nicely shows that the musician understands that the only difference between player and audience is that one has obsessed about a specific artistic endevor.

ApK

Oct-16-2008, 11:52am

I've heard people claim that wearing jeans and/or a T is downright disrespectful. Not sure where the reasoning for that comes from. I mean, come on. When I go to a concert, I'm interested in the music, not what the performers are wearing.

Really? While I have no problem with musicians in jeans and t-shirts, I certainly understand the reasoning.

You're interested only in the music, so you can't understand other concerns about respect and professionalism?

If they threw their cigarettes out in your drink or knocked you down as they loaded in and out, that's fine with you as long as the music is good? If the t-shirts sported obscene hate messages about your ethnic group, you're fine with that as long as the music is good?

Or maybe you DO understand other concerns about professionalism and respect and you just happen to disagree with this particular one?

ApK

mandocaster

Oct-16-2008, 12:13pm

yikes

If they threw their cigarettes out in your drink or knocked you down as they loaded in and out, that's fine with you as long as the music is good? If the t-shirts sported obscene hate messages about your ethnic group, you're fine with that as long as the music is good?

Better wear a suit because someone might come to your show that feels that a bass player in a t-shirt is the moral equivalent of a hate filled thug.

GTG

Oct-16-2008, 12:22pm

Enough with the hypotheticals. Let's look at some real examples.

mrbook: "Promoters want more than good music - they expect you to put on a good show, and appearance is part of the show."

I definitely agree. The key, then, is understanding what sort of show you should be (or want to be) putting on.

Were these good shows?
1980s era Van Halen
Yonder Mountain String Band
Del McCoury Band
Tony Rice Unit

Did anyone think the TRU show was worse because they all weren't wearing ties like TR? Was anyone put off because the bass player is in jeans and sandals? I wasn't there, but I think likely not. Likewise, I suspect the crowd (fairly youthful, from my experience) for YMSB may have been put off if they were wearing suits. As for Van Halen, well, the crazy threads were clearly part of their schtick. Hot for teacher, man!

Know thine audience, I guess.
(pics all taken from the web)

GTG

Oct-16-2008, 12:31pm

Really? While I have no problem with musicians in jeans and t-shirts, I certainly understand the reasoning.

You're interested only in the music, so you can't understand other concerns about respect and professionalism?

If they threw their cigarettes out in your drink or knocked you down as they loaded in and out, that's fine with you as long as the music is good? If the t-shirts sported obscene hate messages about your ethnic group, you're fine with that as long as the music is good?

Or maybe you DO understand other concerns about professionalism and respect and you just happen to disagree with this particular one?

ApK

Uh, those are pretty extreme examples. I might be offended by ash in my beer or hate messages, but not by t-shirts themselves. There are times when a funky t-shirt is perfect for a certain venue. I might be less impressed by a boring (white, or bland colour) t-shirt, I guess, but a boring (grey?) button shirt would be (almost) equally unimpressive.

ApK

Oct-16-2008, 12:40pm

Better wear a suit because someone might come to your show that feels that a bass player in a t-shirt is the moral equivalent of a hate filled thug.

Moral equivalent? That wouldn't be rational.
Logical equivalent, yes.

Sort of like "We've established what you are, madam. We are now merely haggling over price."

First String said "Not sure where the reasoning for that comes from [. . .] I'm interested in the music, not what the performers are wearing."
I think what he really MEANT was "I'm ok with jeans and t-shirts." There's a big difference in a discussion of dress codes.

I think the claim of not understanding the importance of what the band wears was disingenuous, and an extreme example makes it easy to see that.

Mark Twain was often asked while he frequently wore those white suits. He said "Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society."

He was speaking before the days of Playboy Magazine and cable TV, of course.

ApK

mandocaster

Oct-16-2008, 1:15pm

Moral equivalent? That wouldn't be rational.
Logical equivalent, yes.

Sort of like "We've established what you are, madam. We are now merely haggling over price."

First String said "Not sure where the reasoning for that comes from [. . .] I'm interested in the music, not what the performers are wearing."
I think what he really MEANT was "I'm ok with jeans and t-shirts." There's a big difference in a discussion of dress codes.

I think the claim of not understanding the importance of what the band wears was disingenuous, and an extreme example makes it easy to see that.

Mark Twain was often asked while he frequently wore those white suits. He said "Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society."

He was speaking before the days of Playboy Magazine and cable TV, of course.

ApK

A musician wearing a t-shirt has no kind of equivalence, moral or logical, to violent or hateful behavior by said musician. No kind of point was established. I was offended by your argument, though, and by your reference to the old prostitute joke.

ApK

Oct-16-2008, 1:31pm

No kind of point was established.

:)) Then I guess it's lucky for me that your opinion on that is irrelevant!

I was offended by your argument, though, and by your reference to the old prostitute joke.
So...lessee...you're offended by the suggestion that someone would find a hate message offensive, which was the point of referencing an extreme example....okaaayyyy...
Particularly since you're the one who suggested some moral equivalence, I find it impossible to care.
Go ahead and take the last word on the matter if you like.

(EDIT: It occurs to me that you could be being ironic....in which case, very good! You got me!)

mandocaster

Oct-16-2008, 1:58pm

Your "extreme example" was so goofy I should have known that you were just fooling. Shame on me for taking your post seriously, or thinking you were trying to make a real argument. I am under the weather today so my sarcasm meter might be broken. I see it now. Very funny!

mandocaster

Oct-16-2008, 2:35pm

sorry (said as I back away from the thread)

I should know not to respond if I am upset by a post. No good can come of it. Apologies all around.

Jim Broyles

Oct-16-2008, 2:42pm

To me, there has been, in general, a "laying back" or a "casualization" of society. I don't necessarily believe that this is for the better. A band with jeans and t shirts seems to be saying that they don't care what the audience's perception is of them. A band with tasteful (not gaudy or ludicrous) matching outfits looks like a team and I take them more seriously, for better or for worse, than a low casually dressed band. I try to look like I'm serious about music and concerned with pleasing my audience when I play a gig. Business casual is fine in certain contexts, but high school casual is a turn-off to me.

bobby bill

Oct-16-2008, 2:56pm

mrbook

Oct-16-2008, 3:07pm

This discussion has been heating up since I made my last comment this morning. You can wear whatever you want, you can play and sing whatever you want, and you can act however you want to act on stage. Just don't expect everyone to like it, or to pay you to do it. Your music, appearance, and actions will speak for themselves, and you will live with the consequences. If your music is good, audiences and promoters might overlook your appearance or stage manner, but it's better if all three are good.

Most of the discussion concerns "dressing down," but when the Del McCoury Band started playing for younger, non-bluegrass audiences, the band didn't seem to alter its stage dress, even though the suits might seem out of place in some venues. At least I haven't seen Del on stage in a t-shirt. I have seen him on stage with musicians who are not dressed as he is, but he knows his music and the image he wants to project. He won audiences over with his musicianship, even when the suits might have put off some members of the audience. The one time my band wore suits when we played as an opening act, the headlining band made a couple jokes at our expense. I still enjoyed their part of the show, and listen to their CDs now and then today.

After years of performing, I can give many anecdoes and express many opinions on stage dress. No one offends me, except for the time in the 1970s when I walked out of one of David Crosby's concerts, but that was more for his personality than his appearance. I've seen all kinds of stage dress, and heard a lot of good music from people dressed in every way imaginable (no naked people yet, though). You can dress up and not play well, and I've seen outstanding players whose clothes needed a good washing. I enjoyed it all, and learned something at every show. As a friend of mine used to say, "It's all grist for the mill."

I don't like to hear musicians say, "They won't hire us because they don't like the way we look." That's the promoter's decision - you make your choice and live with it. I play in a band now which has a band outfit that really isn't my first choice, but I can live with it, and the music and friendship with the band members makes it worthwhile. The bottom line is that you can dress any way you want, but after decades of performing I have found that an appropriate stage outfit can make a postive impression on audiences and promoters.

ApK

Oct-16-2008, 4:22pm

Wow,what an amazing thread. I initially ignored it when I saw it was about clothes but after it went on for days, I had to take a peek. I learn something everyday from the Cafe and today I learned that wearing a t-shirt is the "logical" equivalent of putting a cigarette out in someone's beer.

Since it sound like you might be being facetious, let me say it as simply as possible:

Two people in two threads have said "it doesn't matter what the band wears, it's only the music matters." This is highly unlikely to be true even for the people who said it. It's simple to point out an extreme example of things other than the music that would matter to them, and that's what I did. It IS logically equivalent.
So, once that is established, and we able to agree that things like dress CAN matter, and it's really a matter of personal opinion and degrees, we should be able to talk about the more relevant stuff of WHAT matters to whom and how.

It seems fine to base one's opinion of a band on the clothe's they wear. I'm sure I could find attire that was goofy to the point that it distracted from the music. But someone who feels disrespected by a musician in a t-shirt is looking to be disrespected and I guaranty that they will find disrespect every day of their lives.

Just like that! See, you didn't feel the need to falsely claim you 'couldn't understand the reasoning' of considering something beside the music (implying that only YOUR way of thinking makes any sense) to make the point that t-shirts and jeans are ok with you.
Neither did I. Neither did most people. Just two.

mandocaster

Oct-16-2008, 4:47pm

.... must ...not .... respond....

mandowilli

Oct-16-2008, 9:10pm

Getting back on track.

Yes, I play in a band.
No, we do not have a dress code.

At certain gigs a dress code is declared, but never defined.

Nothing happens.

jim simpson

Oct-16-2008, 10:16pm

The attached black and white photo was of a group that I was part of playing for a black tie affair. It was a great gig and I felt comfortable with our personal clothing choices. The second photo shows a band I played with wearing ties. We did wear them most of the time. It was a pre-existing band decision. I went along with it as I liked the band. I still prefer not to wear a tie but don't mind dressing a bit neater for performance.

Timbofood

Oct-17-2008, 7:33am

Getting a little testy around here, don't you think?
Anyway, I got into the habit of getting home from my day job (suit and tie EVERY DAY) having dinner, and then taking a shower, shaving (again) and the like before going to a gig. I didn't feel that it was the clothes so much (though we did look good when we matched, at 18 years old it was cute), as the process of "getting in the right frame of mind" to do a decent show. There is a certain amount of "clothes make the man" that works. I have a couple of shirts that are "gig" shirts and don't wear them for much else. The important thing about all this is the fact that we all play music because we enjoy the "doing." As long as flys are zipped and a certain amount of decorum is observed, wear what makes you feel like playing.

ApK

Oct-17-2008, 9:00am

I think it's a safe bet that choice of dress impacted this band's career:
http://www.virginmedia.com/images/dexys-midnight-runners-gal.jpg
http://www.whiskeyexperience.co.nz/music/images/d/Dexy%27s%20Midnight%20Runners%20-%20Don%27t%20Stand%20Me%20Down.jpg
http://www.dexys.org/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/dont_stand_me_down.jpg.w300h300.jpg

allenhopkins

Oct-17-2008, 9:07am

As long as flys are zipped and a certain amount of decorum is observed...

I understand that Tony Orlando made his first appearance on The Ed Sullivan Show with his zipper down...

Yet he went on to fame and fortune. Makes you wonder about Tie A Yellow Ribbon, though.

Mike Snyder

Oct-17-2008, 8:29pm

Imagine, if you will, my chagrin when asked to fill in for an injured band member at Winfield this year. The band was scheduled to appear on the Flood Stage, and I had forgotten to pack my "I Like Ike" vintage necktie. It really brings everything together with a long sleeved white button-down shirt and brand-new Key bib overalls. Was a bit too hot for the bibbers,though, so we mostly wore shorts and tees. Not me! I found a goodwill store and bought a 99 cent tie. You just cannot hide class, boys.