signature series mandolin

[billkilpatrick]

one of the many "things" i wanted when i was a kid was a baseball glove with willie may's signature embossed on it. i have a dim recollection of the anguish i went through by not having one and if asked at the time, i probably wouldn't have been able to explain why i wanted it so much ... to put it into words. the deprivation must have been enormous.

now that 50-something years have passed and i - like most of you - are all fully grown, wise and mature adults ... could someone please refresh my memory and explain the appeal of owning a signature series mandolin?

MAS i understand ... it's SMAS that has me stumped.

[JEStanek]

I think people like Signature models because it brings them closer to the artists whom the line was built for. The Ricky Skaggs distressed master model was based on his personal instrument and each was signed and approved by Ricky. That means something to some folks. The Sam Bush model gives you an instrument built and appointed like Hoss and ideally with the potential to sound like it too.

I don't think there's anything wrong with it and the market bears wether or not a specific signature line is worthy of the effort that went into it. Nobody has ever been forced to purchase one. I do like it when a signature instrument is based on an instrument the person the model is named after actually plays (or would have built). that sentance is still awful but I hope you see what I mean...

Jamie

[John Flynn]

I'm with you, Bill. I would not go out of my way to buy a signature model instrument. If I did get a deal on a signature model that I wanted for its tone and playability, I would see if I could remove the "signature" stuff, e.g. replace the truss rod cover, the tailpiece cover, whatever.

Signature models remind me of the Roy Rodgers BB gun I when I was knee-high, something that's "just for kids."

[first string]

As much as I think the desire to own a signature model is irrational, my own distaste for them is at least equally irrational. I remember before I played mando, and was still a guitar basher (strumming chords etc) I played an Eric Clapton model Martin that just had it. Great sound, great playability, and nice look. It also had Clapton's name written on the fingerboard. I dismissed it out of hand. That was silly. If I still played guitar I would be looking at the David Bromberg model as I really like that tweener size between the dread and an OM, but I would still be bothered by the fact that it is a signature. It's less of an issue with mandolins one way or another.

[San Rafael]

Interesting. A thread started for the express purpose of trashing a brand and line of instruments.

Some of the signature instruments have nice features, attractively combined. I suspect that they are often sold to folks who want those features, and don't care much about the endorsement.

I guess we can surmise that the sig-series bashers here wouldn't be caught dead playing a vintage Les Paul. Just not cool enough, I guess.

[Chris Biorkman]

I like the signature mandolins, but I would never buy something with someone else's name on it. I like how the Skaggs doesn't have his name on the truss rod cover or tailpiece.

[Timbofood]

You've heard the man, Now, own the instrument! What a gimmick but, if the instruments were all canine(Not Dawglike) I would bash, the thing is they are NOT ALL bad, just premium priced. If you've got it spend it!

[Mike Snyder]

The Benson has several features I would use if consigning a new instrument. I love the antique red finish in matte. I like a no dot fingerboard. I could live without the fingerboard signiture, however. The one I've played sounded good enough for a new build. I'm a Gibson fan, sort of.....I guess. If I ever find one at a reasonable price, and I'm flush, it would be a temptation. The Benson I played (Morgan Music) was a much cleaner build than my ugly Gibby.I have heard that the Bensons are the least popular of the sigs. I did play a Bush recently that wasn't up to expectations, but could have had dead strings. This was shortly after it was used in competition at Winfield.
Just paying for the name makes little sense, I agree, but if the prices shake out to reflect market value for used mandos, and the sound is there, sure, I'll bite. It is a curiosity why some of these guys were on board with Gibson enough to put their name on one only to be playing something else like five minutes later.

[GRW3]

Signature Editions are harmless fun. Kind of like Eddie Bauer Explorers ("Now he's getting personal"). If it was the right instrument, the 'one' if you will, I would not hesitate to own one. I guess my only real reservation is the 'super' premium some of these instruments carry.

[MikeOPFL]

I looked for a long time for a good deal on a used Sam Bush, not for the name, but for the features (IE: wide neck/nut, shortened fingerboard). I found a 2003 in new condition for $5K. I probably would not pay the tax on a new one, but....... my decision was based on features, the known reputation of the later model Gibsons, and the price.

I think the signature series instruments make it easy for folks to quickly understand the features of the instrument, especially when you are buying used. You can either look for a Sam Bush, or you can look at every detail of every available F5 to ferret out what is important to you. The second approach sometimes means looking at hundreds of instruments that probably will not fit the bill until you find that gem.

Mike

[jimbob]

I bought a Bibey for one reason: It was an opportunity for me to buy a Gibson F5 CHEAP ! I bought it about three years ago and still haven't seen one advertised for what I paid for mine, so I think I got a very good deal. It happens to be a very nice mandolin and I'm glad I have it. I doubt if a Bibey would have been on my list of mandolins for which I had severe MAS, but it worked out well for me. I like the Bush model very much also. I guess it's just nice to have choices.

[mandocaster]

It's been said before...

Based on what I played and the opinion of others on this site, the Doyle Lawson sig is a great instrument. I like the looks, too.

[Tom Sanderson]

I own a Nugget/Collings Tim O'Brien model, not because it's a Tim O'Brien model, but because Nugget (Mike Kemnitzer) is one of the best mandolin buliders on earth, and he had a lot to do with making it.

[man dough nollij]

I think they make some sense; it's not all about the name.

If I admire a particular player, emulate his/her style, and have similar tastes in instruments (wide neck, bar markers), it would make sense that I might like a replica.

I really admire Sam Bush's playing, so I think I'll order a sig model, slam my hand in a car door, and try to become him.

Good plan?

:disbelief:

[Jim Garber]

It is an interesting phenomenon. I am especially interested in a signature model such as this Orville Gibson F5 (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44514). That one really blows my mind: a signature F-5 model for a dead luthier who died before his company even thought of an F-5 mandolin.

The other entertaining thoughts I had about signature models also come from Gibson: I love the double signature Les Pauls. The Les Paul guitar (original signature model) as played by Slash (for instance).

Then again, these signature models go back aways. Nick Lucas guitars were the first (I believe) that Gibson made. Roy Smeck models hawaiians came after that. I don't think they had any signature mandolins until much later, for some odd reason. You would think they would have had an Apollon model and would have made a Monroe model much earlier than they did.

[billkilpatrick]

if someone asked me, aged ... whatever ... why i wanted a signature model baseball glove i probably would have said it was "cool" and that would have been the end of the conversation - more or less. i suppose the same could apply to signature model mandolins for adults.

i'd already seen the ricky scaggs video explaining his input into the making of it - there can be no doubt about its patrimony or its excellence. in checking the gibson site, it seems the distinguishing feature in the other signature series models centers around finish and choice of color. i would never trash a company like gibson - via epiphone and a sorely-missed pre-war j-45 guitar, i've been a life long fan.

that orville gibson commemorative model mandolin, however, is a wonder. there's no accounting for taste but the cemetery wood used in its making smacks of mumbo-jumbo ... vague and mysterious influences from beyond the grave. whoever stumps up the money to buy it might consider having it blessed against witchcraft - assuming they believe it exists.

[Rob Powell]

I'd love to have a Sam Bush model for a lot of the same reasons MikeOPFL states. I'd like that wider fingerboard...I like the block inlay...but mostly because it was designed to sound like his 37 F5 which has a sound I really like.

The price for a new one is a bit over my threshold since I would never part with my Weber. My Weber is a bit gimmicky as well...a distressed model. I have to say though that I wouldn't have purchased it on looks alone...it gots some serious mojo workin':grin: and it does look :cool:

Everyone who hears it can't believe it was built in January of this year. It really sounds like an old mandolin.

My current guitar is a Blueridge (Saga) signature model. I didn't buy it because of the signature but because it sounds great and because I love the way it plays. It was built to the specs of an old D28 and it doesn't have that Brazilian Rosewood depth but it's pretty darn close soundwise and it was substantially less than the cost of a new or used D28. I still long for the sound of my long gone D35...maybe one day...:crying:

I guess my thing is that the signature models are built to certain specs which can produce a sound that you either like or don't like. Most people don't mind that their mando says Gibson on the headstock (Big Mon's episode excluded ;)) so why would you care if it also says Sam Bush somewhere on the instrument?

I don't see much difference in buying a signature model or a Heiden or BRW or Nugget or Dudenbostel....you're still buying a name in one way or another and you're still paying a premium for that name. You're getting a premium instrument and paying a premium price...seems fair to me.

[Big Joe]

There are two signed or signature models that appeal to me. The first is the Loyd Loar, the second is the Charlie Derrington. Those excite me~! Oh....that's signed on the inside. Sorry...I'm getting old and confuse easily :) .

[fishdawg40]

No mystery to me why people would or wouldn't buy a signature model. If you like the player, have the cash and the mandolin suits you then it's simple why people would buy one. I wouldn't buy a Gibson Sig model for number of reasons.

What interests me though is the Crusher copy by Red Diamond. I haven't played one but have only heard good things. I love Dawg, why wouldn't want a mandolin that has his mandolin's specs into it?

[Santiago]

Better a signature model than a distressed one in my book, but I won't steal this string. I think many musicians really respect the playing of certain artists, their techniques and approaches, etc. There's nothing wrong with wanting to emulate the artist to the point of buying a mandolin that relects the nuance of their professional opinion on what's the best approach to design, set-up, etc., particularly the way they play. Of course a Steve Ray Vaughn Fender Stratocaster guitar which ships with 10-guage strings when Stevie played 14s is a bit silly to me, but not too many folks could play strings that thick. That leads to an interesting point about whether an average musician CAN physically emulate their idols style of play. If buying a Loar made me play like Bill, I'd have to get me one.

[billkilpatrick]

...That leads to an interesting point about whether an average musician CAN physically emulate their idols style of play. If buying a Loar made me play like Bill, I'd have to get me one.

bingo! ... who wouldn't?

i saw a youtube video just recently in which a gentleman of mature years handles and talks about a signature series mandolin with a reverence that can only be described as alarming - shrine-like photo over the fridge and everything.

in the cold light of dawn ... does anyone really believe that owning a signature series instrument will bring them closer to their heroes? ... gain them entrance to mandolin valhalla?

a là james taylor - "... as if these celebrities were your best friend ..."

[Santiago]

Yes, but many people will argue that a name musician may have good judgement in terms of the particulars of design, and have the sound many seek. I'd study Babe Ruth's batting stance... though I might not be able to lift his bat.

[billkilpatrick]

Yes, but many people will argue that a name musician may have good judgement in terms of the particulars of design, and have the sound many seek. I'd study Babe Ruth's batting stance... though I might not be able to lift his bat.

... point taken - but i'd be wary of anyone saying this can be achieved with the purchase of ... a bag of magic beans.

[Jeff Chu]

my take on it is that, not only does it bring a player closer to their idol, but they ARE collectors items. there are collectors out there. They are numbered, whether there are 100 shimabukuro ukes, 30 skaggs, 5 dawgs, it just makes them that muchmore valuable. For a player, it might not make as much sense. i feel that these signature models are aimed more towards collectors, and it makes sense that they are marked up, as there is a limited supply.

[Avi Ziv]

I think it's strictly a matter of personal taste. Honestly - I don't even like to see the maker's name on the headstock. Violin kind of anonymity is more appealing to me. That's as far as the aesthetics. And as far as usage - how many top performing musicians buy and record with these signature instruments? How many top restaurant chefs use Emeril-endorsed knives? It's a marketing angle and I do understand the potential value to collectors. I'm just not one of them.

As much as I admire other mandolin players and learn from them by emulation, at the end of the day I want to sound like me and not like them

Avi

[Santiago]

In the case of Orville, I don't know that he was a player as much as an engineer (like Loar, right?). And I agree that that exquisite F-style isn't one of his personal designs (see other thread), but Lloyd's, but they all had both names on them (well, until Bill picked out his headstock). It's a contemporary design based on all things that are good in Gibson, and quite fitting as an homage to Orville. I don't want to play like Orville, but as a brand name it links the mandolin to that rich legacy, and is probably a wise branding move with products like The Loar in the market. Anyone want to loan me a few grand? :-)