How do I identify public domain music? [Archive]

mclaugh

Sep-30-2008, 10:47pm

Scott,

Try the copyright office <www.copyright.gov> or the BMI site <www.BMI.com>; they will give a hit if the tune is copyrighted. The equivalent ASCAP site does not seem to provide as much useful information.

I am always skeptical of copyright registrations in the name of latter-day rock&rollers on tunes that were originally recorded before they were born, but use your own judgement.

Off topic 1: The rule used to be that the venue was responsible for any performance fees (which were usually not collected). Has that clause fallen out of contracts these days or are you dealing with someone who is new to the business and doesn't know any better? Or are they being harrassed by a fee-collecting outfit?

foldedpath

Sep-30-2008, 11:22pm

As a very rough guide, you can try typing song names into the bmi.com web site and see what comes up. If there's a clear songwriter copyright in force, you'll see only one or a small group of listings, under the same songwriter name. For example, relatively recent tunes like Ashokan Farewell will show up like this.

An ancient folk tune like "Red Haired Boy" brings up many more listings, all credited to different "Songwriter/Composers." That suggests copyrighted arrangements and not a legit credit for a single author holding current copyright.

Probably not an ironclad method for clearing tunes, but it's at least one way to cross-check against something like that pdinfo.com site. There was a recent thread about this on thesession.org, lamenting the way that copyrighting arrangements can mess up public performance rights of very old tunes, when agencies like BMI get involved:

http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/18894

JeffD

Oct-01-2008, 2:40am

Ascap / bmi ?

farmerjones

Oct-01-2008, 7:33am

Harry Fox has a very searchable database of what is available for liscence as well.

Don Grieser

Oct-01-2008, 7:43am

A heads up: All those old Carter Family songs had the copyrights renewed by Peer Publishing, I believe. I know I had to get a mechanical license for one when I did the CoMando CD even though the person who submitted it swore it was PD and I thought it would be too. Found out otherwise by searching for it on Harry Fox.

MikeEdgerton

Oct-01-2008, 7:52am

Ascap / bmi ?

ASCAP (http://www.ascap.com/)

BMI (http://www.bmi.com/)

Bertram Henze

Oct-01-2008, 7:58am

...There was a recent thread about this on thesession.org, lamenting the way that copyrighting arrangements can mess up public performance rights of very old tunes, when agencies like BMI get involved:

http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/18894

I remember an old inner sleeve in a record I had, which said "home recording kills music". Apparently, they have found a whole new way to kill music out there. Take care that the mockingbird in your backyard is not singing any copyrighted stuff...

What I find very interesting in that thesession.org discussion are the ideas to invent new names for all the tunes - one of these days I'll write a generator for that. The next step would be to register those names as under a public license to prevent anyone from claiming property, a bit like the GNU public license - if there is such a registry somewhere.

Bertram

ApK

Oct-01-2008, 9:27am

Wow.. this thread only started yesterday and it's already the number 2 Google hit for "copyrighting arrangements."

The number one hit is this:
http://books.google.com/books?id=E89YJoeBGxcC&pg=PA133&lpg=PA133&dq=copyrighting+arrangements&source=web&ots=LdszlwLZ9L&sig=C82uxt3cUO6m-6-WbUWH5cW0g8Q&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA136,M1

I read the section on copyrighting arrangements and it was disturbing.

You know, I'm generally on the side of the of the IP owners (and the law) and generally feel attacks on PROs are unjustified, since if the members didn't want their enforcement, they would not be members.

But the idea of copyrighting arrangements of PD tunes is really rubbing me the wrong way.

The intent, as I gather from the above cite, was to offer protection for things that showed some significant original and creative input. An extreme example mentioned was "a full orchestral arrangement of a folk song."
But I get the sense from the fears expressed on the forums that copyrights are being registered on the basis of really simple performance improvisations, like embellishments and dynamics, or very minor lyrical changes to PD tunes. That seem to be the concern raised, though I've not seen actual examples given.
It seems, from what I read, that those 'copyrighted arrangements' would NOT be upheld if challenged.

If any of you HAVE copyrighted an arragement of a PD work, I'd interested in hearing about what makes it worthy of a copyright.

And if any of you perform a PD song and get a copyrighted arrangement complaint, and you believe you are not performing someone's genuinely original arrangement, I hope you fight it.

ApK

allenhopkins

Oct-01-2008, 9:53am

Harry Fox Agency link. (http://www.harryfox.com/index.jsp)

TonyP

Oct-01-2008, 9:58am

I think the note should have read, "suits kill music" Bertram. If you should get around to doing like you say, it would be a great thing. But I can only imagine the retaliation by the powers that be.

To me, the ultimate disservice that's done here is to the original writer of the song. Not that they are losing out on some $$$, but that they are being further buried beneath red tape. I always say what I know about the song we're going to do, and give credit to who wrote it. And most of the bands I've seen that are not pro, and some that are, like Utah Phillips, would give credit to the writer too. That has expanded my knowledge of, and made me search out these people and buy their cd's. I think only a suit would think you are killing music by recording it yourself. Most of us could never afford to get into a studio, much less deal with the cut a label would take. And from friends with copyrighted songs, they receive very little for this "protection". The whole thing is a mess, with no clear answers.

I am going to save the links supplied for further investigation.

When we did our cd, we went through a place in Nashville to license all the songs. Some of it was impossible. Like Dim Lights, Thick Smoke is divided amongst several people and one couldn't be found. And one of the songs by Ronnie Bowman, nobody seemed to know anything about.

I would be curious too if this is the wave of the future, having to sign a contract, just so the venue doesn't have to pay their ASCAP/BMI dues? I know that wasn't the object of this thread, but inquiring minds have questions.

GTison

Oct-01-2008, 10:22am

the Harry Fox agency, I would think would be the place to look.

These places are just trying to cover their butt from BMI , ASCAP, and such. I'm not really sure it works. So if you play in this club and do a request "play rocky top" frinstance are you in trouble with the club? Do you have to pay the royalties for the venue?

The argument about this goes on and on. So, if you get permission from the author to perform a song, is that considered permissable?

I think that's why Don Reno and Frank Wakefield and others play tunes and songs and call them something else. So that they have an original title thereby dodging royalty issues.

just call everything Scotts Rag, Scotts blues, Tichners troubles, etc. problem solved.

HogTime

Oct-01-2008, 10:42am

What I find very interesting in that thesession.org discussion are the ideas to invent new names for all the tunes - one of these days I'll write a generator for that. The next step would be to register those names as under a public license to prevent anyone from claiming property, a bit like the GNU public license - if there is such a registry somewhere.

Bertram

Since you can't copyright a title, I don't see how this would do any good. There are many modern day songs out there with the same title.

John Flynn

Oct-01-2008, 10:44am

Here is my problem with the databases like BMI. Just for fun, I typed in "Old Joe Clark" in the BMI database. This tune is clearly the public domain. The first printed versions go back to 1918 and the tune clearly goes back farther. BMI has 71 listings for the title. A random sample indicates to me that less than half of them say anything about public domain and even then it is "shared public domain." So here is my interpretation, and the one I'm sure BMI would like us to believe: Any tune that has ever been recorded by a BMI artist is protected by BMI and therefore not in the public domain, unless you can say your arrangement is absolutely unique. Could anyone ever play "Old Joe Clark" in a way that is true to the tune and say it does not mirror one of those 71 arrangements?

The rule I have heard (I don't know to what extent this is valid) is that if you can show the tune was written before 1929, your good to go with it. I have gotten that from owners of venues I've played who were concerned with the "Copyright Police." I'm not sure of the origin of it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against copyrights at all and I think artists need to get paid for their work. But I think even listing Old Joe Clark as anything but public domain is the height of arrogance.

Oh, and there are 141 listing for "Happy Birthday," so your families are all in violation too. I'm tellin'... :))

Wendy Anthony

Oct-01-2008, 10:48am

I was doing some research about public domain music, internet music transmissions & copyright issues early last year & ended up with quite a few interesting links ... only some links are about public domain music, others are relevant only to USA, or to Canada, UK or International ... these links, including those already suggested by previous posters, are on my Music Research (http://www3.telus.net/On-LineMusicWorldofWendy/MusicResearch.htm) webpage ...

Keepin' tuned ...
Wendy

MikeEdgerton

Oct-01-2008, 11:20am

Wendy, that is a wonderful resource, thank you for creating it and listing the link. This page is what I have been looking for (http://www.cdbaby.net/dd?f=8).

GRW3

Oct-01-2008, 11:29am

I was looking for this link last night. It's on my laptop not the home PC

http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/

You should write down your own chord sheets and lyrics for reference. Don't carry somebody else's copyrighted arrangement.

TomTyrrell

Oct-01-2008, 1:15pm

The latest in copyright law sets 1923 as the date. Anything published before then is in the public domain.

Arrangements of public domain songs and tunes can indeed be copyrighted. BUT you don't get copyright to the entire song or tune, only to your original arrangement of that song or tune. If you don't copyright your arrangement of a PD song or tune that you put on your new CD you won't get paid when it is played on the radio. In order to win a court action against someone for infringing upon your copyright you have to prove exactly which parts of your arrangement are original and subject to copyright protection.

The simplest rules for performing PD songs and tunes:
1. If you know the original author and date announce that before you play the tune. If you don't know the author announce it as a "traditional" tune.
2. Don't EVER say "This is an old traditional tune I learned off of Billy Bob Smith's record" or anything like that. The only way anybody is going to know you are playing a copyrighted arrangement is for you to TELL them you are playing a copyrighted arrangement.
3. If anyone says your version sounds a lot like someone's copyrighted version just say "Well, it is the same traditional tune. I guess we both like it."

BTW, the Copyright details will generally have something like:
Basis of Claim: New Matter: "compilation of preexisting words & music, performance & sound recording."

mandroid

Oct-01-2008, 1:36pm

Publisher's renewal of copyright is part of the Game, "Happy Birthday" keeps getting renewed,
so Its under copyright, still.

BauerHaus

Oct-01-2008, 2:35pm

TomTyrrell

Oct-01-2008, 4:06pm

"Happy Birthday" is still under copyright but it is doubtful the copyright holders would go to court now. Recent research has shown that the music was not original and neither are the words making the copyright invalid and potentially exposing the copyright holder to legal action.

John Flynn

Oct-01-2008, 5:09pm

mandroid

Oct-01-2008, 5:33pm

Echoing Tony P the Venue could just pay the ASCAP/BMI fees, then deduct it as a cost of business expense, which it [not an accountant] would be.

a further thought, ... likely OK to sing IWW and other Labor Organizing songs,
the authors are, perhaps, welcoming more voices in that Chorus.

TonyP

Oct-01-2008, 6:09pm

I'm sure Scott and Mike are cringing at all this wandering, but I must say there's been some very good input IMHO. Like, now the copyrighting of all these PD songs makes sense, because you wouldn't get paid if it was played on the air. Thanks Tom.

Not to mention all the great links. Going to take a while to assimilate all that.

I remember when KenC brought up BMI/ASCAP shakedowns a while ago. If I remember, it was in a local Grange Hall that paid it's "dues", or so I thought. And they were still trying to shake it down for having a jam there.

One of the main local places that had acoustic music was a pizza joint on old main street here. One week it was a going concern, the next doors closed, never to reopen. The story circulated that one night a couple of big bruisers came in at closing and said they knew he'd had live music there for years, so he owed them $25k. I guess they scared him bad enough he just folded. Here's a guy who had beer brawls, biker fights, robbed, etc., and the doors stayed open.

Ever since, it's been harder and harder to get a gig. But so far nobody I know is signing any contracts. And those that do admit what they make, ain't makin' much. So who's killin' what here?

It would also seem that there is no real PD in a certain way. And the tangle that is copyright would leave enough that BMI/ASCAP could drag anybody into court if they wanted. This, knowing that most of us have neither the resources or the expertise to fight it.

Good luck Scott, and I mean that. Hope you don't have too many songs to research.

Maybe it's time for a page with known PD's?

Bertram Henze

Oct-02-2008, 5:57am

Since you can't copyright a title, I don't see how this would do any good. There are many modern day songs out there with the same title.

Well, not just the title. Procedure would be like this:
1. pick a traditional tune you like
2. generate an alias name for it (e.g. "The Steam Cream on the Mountain")
3. record it solo and call that your arrangement (nobody will be able to reproduce the mistakes you made anyway)
4. register the recording with the name with one of the agencies.

Benefit: you can always play "The Steam Cream on the Mountain" without infringing anybody's copyright, and without preventing anybody else from playing "The Humours of Ballynaknocknacarranaglendalough" in his own way.

My point as a musician is, that I think we do not have to play the suits' game, because the one thing they cannot play is music.
My point as an IT system consultant is that there is no "service" the suits can offer that cannot be crushed with a DOS attack.

Bertram

Bob Wiegers

Oct-02-2008, 7:41am

all this mess just increases my motivation to write my own darn songs. for what it's worth (not much, I'm sure) yall are free to use them as you see fit... http://www.wiegersfamily.com/music/context/

TonyP

Oct-02-2008, 10:03am

Bertram wrote: My point as a musician is, that I think we do not have to play the suits' game, because the one thing they cannot play is music.

Wow, can I use that as my tag line? No truer words have been spoken.

All this has gotten me thinking back to the recent gig's I've seen. And almost nobody says what songs are, and especially where they came from. I just thought it was bad stagecraft. Boy was I wrong.

I'm going to bring this up to the guys, and since we've got all the stuff in place to register our stuff, now do like Bertram is talking about. Not to stiff the good folks who wrote the tunes, but to give the suites a kick where it hurts, the pocket book. My concern Bertram is they can come up with something that can check lyrics against known copyrighted stuff? Also, if like APK noted, if we are already on a google search, I'm just paranoid enough to think suites are monitoring this as we "speak".

GRW3

Oct-02-2008, 10:27am

It's almost too bad that this discussion happens during IBMA. Seems like a good function for them would be to provide Jam coverage for no fee, no ticket sessions. I suspect that were they to run a survey they would find that jammers buy way more music than other people. I.E jamming lights the fire of acquisition and thus promoting it would be in their best interest.

I'm sure it would take an effort including their confrontation with the rep agencies. I suspect the latter would best be done by demands to show that the fees collected for Bluegrass jams go to Bluegrass artists and not Madonna and Kanye West (or even Brad Paisley). They could offer a 'jam music' service offering TAB, lyric, chords, etc. for cleared music that could be played without restriction in a jam setting - no profit other than incidental. To make this a really going they should offer all kinds of acoustic jammable music and work with other organizations to make the same available.

They could even offer jam club memberships where they would provide legal protection to the participants.

TomTyrrell

Oct-02-2008, 12:25pm

So who are these "suits"?

BMI is a performing right organization: It collects license fees on behalf of its songwriters, composers and music publishers and distributes them as royalties to those members whose works have been performed.

ASCAP (the American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers) is a membership association of more than 330,000 U.S. composers, songwriters, lyricists, and music publishers of every kind of music.

Bob Wiegers

Oct-02-2008, 12:33pm

have you read the story of the guy who played only his own and PD music, and they tried to shake down the venue, and the guy fought them and sorta won...but ultimately lost b/c the venue gave up.

here it is: http://www.woodpecker.com/writing/essays/phillips.html
this one had a lot of info too: http://www.woodpecker.com/writing/essays/royalty-politics.html

read it and you'll know exactly who the suits are. sure, BMI, ASCAP, etc have apparently noble intentions and a legitimate business model, but in reality they behave more like organized crime.

Paul Kotapish

Oct-02-2008, 1:09pm

Scott,

The Harry Fox Agency--as noted and linked above--is the "industry standard" for acquiring mechanical licenses for recording. It is also the single most convenient place to check to see if a tune has an active copyright.

Bear in mind though, that heaps of material that is justifiably in the public domain has been appropriated over the years by savvy arrangers and performers who have claimed rights for that material after recording it. "Old Joe Clark," as cited above, is a perfect case in point. The Acuff/Rose team was notorious for gobbling up loads of traditional material and claiming copyright. In most cases, this is just an effort to get an extra few pennies on specific recording projects, and the rights aren't necessarily enforced.

Performance rights are handled by ASCAP and BMI, but their databases are not as convenient to use. And performance licensing issues are handled by venues--not performers--which is probably why you are required to jump through this hoop. Some venues skirt their performance dues to ASCAP and/or BMI by requiring performers to do only originals and PD material. One acoustic-music coffeehouse in San Francisco has a large sign over the stage that declares just that, and several other venues have the same requirement.

Despite the ridiculous lengths that some ASCAP/BMI agents have gone to in order to collect their tariffs, I'm all for protecting the performance and recording rights for living composers and for their estates within the conventional statutory limits. But copyrighting traditional material is just plain wrong, and I ignore those appropriations of our common culture. If it's music that was old before your great-grandfather's time, play it loud, play it proud, and claim it as PD.

Good luck.

bobby bill

Oct-02-2008, 1:26pm

Just thought I would mention if it hasn't been mentioned before - there is a third entity along with ASCAP and BMI and that is SESAC: http://www.sesac.com/repertory/repertory_main.asp

A Mexican restaurant here in Austin was approached by a SESAC agent demanding licensing payments because they occasionally had roaming mariachis who played for free. The agent did not cite any specific song but rather made the argument that it just takes one song for the wrath of SESAC to fall like a hammer. I obtained a set list to see which if any songs were owned by SESAC and found it impossible to tell if they owned the rights to the song, to the arrangement, or even some other song with a similar name. None of the three entities has an incentive to make the search easy. They want you to believe that the only safe route is to pay the licensing fee to all three entities.

TomTyrrell

Oct-02-2008, 1:31pm

The US copyright office lists no less than 28 different copyrights since 1978 for "Old Joe Clark" in the music category alone. Nobody owns that song, only their own original arrangement of that song. Nobody has "gobbled up" those traditional songs everyone is free to play those original songs all they want without paying anybody anything.

Just play your OWN versions of those old traditional tunes. It really is that simple. While you are at it go ahead and add your name to the long list of people who have copyrighted their OWN versions of those traditional tunes.

And if you are being threatened by anyone claiming to represent BMI or ASCAP call the police and file an assault claim against the individuals and against the organization they claim to represent. This isn't The Sopranos. You don't have to put up with that nonsense.

Jim Nollman

Oct-02-2008, 2:46pm

Paul Kotapish

Oct-02-2008, 2:53pm

I produced a CD last year that was a mix of original songs and standards all in astyle reminiscent of the 30's and 40s. The artist went to the Harry Fox Agency website and very quickly found out what songs he needed to get permission for. Then he paid a small fee to the agency who handled the permissions for him. Try that, Scott.

Jim,

Harry Fox is a great place to do research, but they only handling licensing for mechanicals on recordings. Those licenses are the recording artist's responsibility, and most CD replicators will not press CDs without proof that the mechanicals have been secured or released. (Mechanical royalties are based on a fixed rate per unit manufactured--not sold.)

Performance and radio rights are paid for by the venues (clubs, concert halls, radio stations, etc.) and are not the performer's responsibility.

The Harry Fox agency would only be useful in this circumstance for getting the basic info about the songs. After that, it's up to the venue hiring Scott's band to decide what to do. Based on Scott's info, it looks like they are trying to cover their butts by having their acts do only original and PD material and have the artists put that in writing.

Bertram Henze

Oct-03-2008, 3:33am

Bertram wrote: My point as a musician is, that I think we do not have to play the suits' game, because the one thing they cannot play is music.

Wow, can I use that as my tag line? No truer words have been spoken.

...

My concern Bertram is they can come up with something that can check lyrics against known copyrighted stuff? Also, if like APK noted, if we are already on a google search, I'm just paranoid enough to think suites are monitoring this as we "speak".

Tag line: everybody should feel free to quote anything I write, I never claim copyright :)

Concerns: yes, the empire might eavesdrop and strike back. But if we didn't believe that the good prevails in the end, we'd better hide in caves. For the "identification evasion" system I suggested, lyrics are indeed a problem. Even they may be changed (e.g. compare the Irish song "Red is the Rose" and the scottish song "Loch Lomond", telling roughly the same story and using the same melody, but sharing no lyrics phrase). Even tunes may be recognized some day by software, e.g. to help people identify a tune they heard on the radio but can only hum part of the melody (that's the good intent, the bad intent will be to start plagiarism wars).

Meanwhile, for practical purposes, however, I second what Paul Kotapish said above: just stand up for your right to play PD music and don't be afraid, thus defusing the suits' strongest weapon - fear. :mandosmiley:

Bertram

Jon Hall

Oct-04-2008, 9:03am

I believe all of the Stephen Foster catalog is p.d.

TomTyrrell

Oct-04-2008, 9:50am

I believe all of the Stephen Foster catalog is p.d.
That would be true. Foster died in 1864 so everything he did happened long before 1923 and is now in the public domain. The are hundreds (maybe thousands) of derivative arrangements copyrighted but since the original music is still available it isn't difficult to find the unadulterated music to use.

BTW, if you find one of Foster's original tunes in a music book that claims copyright you can still play the music, you just can't photocopy (or make digital copies of) that actual page. It is essentially the image or presentation of the music that is under copyright, not the music itself.

Is this complicated enough for everyone?

DougC

Oct-04-2008, 11:17am

Tom: You have presented some good info here and I agree with you, but your premise is all based on what would or would not actually happen in court. The well-documented tactic of outfits like BMI has been to have a few high-profile lawsuits that have put some Mom and Pop venues out of business and then send thier "agents" around to other venues to intimidate the owners based on those high-profile suits.
Often, the venue can't take the chance so they pay the "protection money."

This is a realted topic:
My wife was a member of the Musician's union. Two months after doing a gig, this guy calls from the union and says he saw a newspaper ad about the gig and now she owes a $50 fee. She said did you come to the performance? Did you send anyone? Guy says no.

Well she had to pay $85 to rent the hall, the gig was a 'bust' (no audience) they had to pay all the band members anyway and she LOST MONEY on the deal. She said the the Guy, "you are a pretty lazy %$@#" sitting around reading old newspapers" and told him where he could put it. After that - no more threats, no more phone calls. She did quit later but not from any fear or intimidation.

Don't ever act out of fear. They are all cowards anyway.

allenhopkins

Oct-04-2008, 11:38am

There are venues -- a coffeehouse in Buffalo e.g. -- that try to do what Scott's venue is doing, require that performers pledge to play nothing that would require ASCAP/BMI/SESAC licensing. IMHO, this is a "CYA" dodge, so that in the quite unlikely event that one of the licensing orgs sends a spy to the performance, and spots a song that's registered with them, the venue can claim, "We're blameless -- we had them promise not to play that stuff -- it's not our fault." Interestingly enough, I don't think that any liability falls on the performer of the music, just on the sponsoring organization. I'm not a lawyer, though, and such issues should be legally researched.

The idea that hosting a jam requires ASCAP/BMI/SESAC licensing, while probably repugnant to most of us -- since usually there's no admission fee and the musicians don't get paid -- has legal underpinning. Unfortunately. It gets worse; a local club was fined years ago for playing recordings of licensed music over its sound system, as background music for diners/drinkers, without obtaining an ASCAP license.

The saving grace is that there aren't enough enforcement personnel in the world to check on everything that goes on. I play in libraries, nursing homes, rec centers, elementary schools, farmers' markets, historical societies, coffeehouses, bars, zoos, craft shows, folk club sing-arounds -- endless list -- and maybe 1% of them are licensed. What, in the end, are the licensing organizations going to do about that?

No one's probably heard of Rev. Marvin Frey; in the '30's, he wrote Come By Here, which was taken to Africa by a fellow missionary and Africanized into Kumbaya. (Frey's widow lives near Rochester, and tells the story.) He never copyrighted or licensed anything, was glad to have others enjoy and spread his song. Not saying that working musicians and songwriters can afford to be so generous, but music has a way of spreading beyond its original dimensions, and attempts to rein in this spread or divert all its manifestations for profit, are never likely to be totally successful.

foldedpath

Oct-04-2008, 2:24pm

There are venues -- a coffeehouse in Buffalo e.g. -- that try to do what Scott's venue is doing, require that performers pledge to play nothing that would require ASCAP/BMI/SESAC licensing. IMHO, this is a "CYA" dodge, so that in the quite unlikely event that one of the licensing orgs sends a spy to the performance, and spots a song that's registered with them, the venue can claim, "We're blameless -- we had them promise not to play that stuff -- it's not our fault." Interestingly enough, I don't think that any liability falls on the performer of the music, just on the sponsoring organization. I'm not a lawyer, though, and such issues should be legally researched.

Right, it's not the performer's responsibility or liability, but it does ultimately have an impact on the ecosystem of venues where live music can be played and enjoyed. Here's the BMI riff on performer vs. venue, from their website FAQ:

Q: If Musicians Are Playing Live Music Aren’t They Responsible For Public Performance Fees?

Since it’s your business or organization that’s benefiting by the performance of music, you are responsible for ensuring your organization is properly licensed. This responsibility cannot be passed on to anyone else even if musicians hired are independent contractors.

The real problem here (IMO) is the way performance rights agencies break out different fees for playing recorded music on the sound system, vs. live performance as an additional fee. They even pay higher fees for more than one musician on stage, a lower fee if they're only hosting solo acts. It's a real disincentive to have any live music at all, unless they're sure it draws more patrons (or the musicians themselves are big drinkers and that isn't being comped). If BMI, ASCAP etc. had just a blanket fee for all use of licensed music in a commercial space, whether it was live or from a CD on the sound system, none of this would be an issue.

All of this falls much harder on the heads of small, independent bars and folk clubs. Large chains are paying their fees at the corporate level. So, be sure to support your local live music venues! Let them know you appreciate hearing live music and not just the (cheaper) canned music on the sound system, and that's why you're there having dinner, drinks, or whatever that pays the bills.

TomTyrrell

Oct-04-2008, 3:59pm

<< Don't ever act out of fear. They are all cowards anyway. >>

So true. Extortion is a crime in all 50 states. The only legal way these outfits can make you pay is through the court system. Before they actually file a lawsuit they will send a certified/registered letter demanding payment for a license. That is all they can legally do. If someone shows up at your door demanding payment call the police!

I do know of an instance in the past where individuals were claiming to represent BMI but they really didn't. They were con artists and made quite a bit of money threatening club owners.