Thoughts on the new Orville Mandolin from Gibson!

[gatorgabe]

Anyone see the new Orville Mandolin from Gibson yet? Would love to hear/read everyone's thoughts on this bad boy ... specifically, the soundboard is made from solid black spruce, which I imagine sounds unbelievable. I wonder if anyone else has heard a mandolin made from solid black spruce? Thanks for looking ... I look forward to the responses.

http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/Features/from-the-grave-to-the-cradle/

[Bob DeVellis]

Not crazy about the looks.

[Jonathan Peck]

Where would we see it?

[Jim Broyles]

It should be a 3 point oval hole with a rounded back to rim joint. Not very Orville-like, IMO.

[Tom C]

Not very Orville-like agreed. but it is very tasteful.
http://www.gibson.com/Files/aaFeaturesImages2008pt2/Orville-Mando_Glam.jpg

[allenhopkins]

1] List price? More or less than a Cadillac Escalade?
2] If you owned one, would you dare take it out and play it?

[danb]

I like the throwback script logo and the handel (Mike Blohm's?) tuner buttons. The engraved PG reminds me of one examples at the Museam in Vermillion, SD that I bet was the inspiration?

[Bill Snyder]

From the specs listed on the above linked description.
"Solid Black Spruce top from Morningside Cemetery where Orville Gibson is buried "
That just seems gimmicky to me. Choosing a tree from the cemetery where Mr. Gibson is buried makes me question if they chose the best tonewood they could or just something that they could make work that had a connection to Orville.

[Jim Broyles]

That pick guard would have to go. Even though I use a pickguard, THAT one comes off. Cool looking otherwise.

[Chris Biorkman]

I think it's cool that Gibson is doing some new things here lately, but I also think the cemetery tonewood is a little gimmicky. Maybe they could have mixed his ashes in with the lacquer before application. ;) The pickguard could go too. Other than that, kind of interesting.

If they really wanted to do something new and exciting, they should think about some oval hole models.

[John Hill]

Ahhh...the latest P.T. Barnum model from Gibson.

I like it well enough 'cept for the pickguard.

25K? 30K? 40K?

How about an actual Orville Gibson looking oval hole mandolin? Don't recall Orville starting off with the F-5.

:popcorn:

[JEStanek]

It turns me off. Honestly, if Gibson wanted to really honor Orville, an oval hole mandolin, at least, would be in order and maintaining his aesthetic would be nice too (rounded back body join like Jim mentioned, crescent moon and star headstock inlay instead of on the board). The bowlback style inlaid scratch plate beneath a sound hole on a 3 point would have been way cool. There is an example in the mandolinarchive.com of a showy fingerboard on an Orville built instrument, but that one seems to be a one off from the normal Gibson dot scheme, that I like better.

A tree from the family's cemetery is, and I'm quite shocked to see myself write this, morbid. I'm sure it sounds great, I'm sure the folks at OAI who built it worked hard and did their best. I doubt if this was their idea of how to honor Orville or if the idea came down from management/marketing.

On the plus side, I see this as a fine example of a Presentation Mandolin Gibson could give or exhibit. I don't see it as a faithful honoring of Orville.

Jamie

[Michael Gowell]

Dunno the story on that individual cemetary-grown Black Spruce - maybe just a fortuitous blowdown - maybe someone from Gibson will speak up here. If the tree went down in the natural course of things - rather than having been harvested for a special edition instrument - it seems appropriate IMHO to utilize the wood this way. In terms of tonewood, Mario Proulx has built some very serious flatpicking guitars with that species and apparently he and his customers think highly of it.

[Jim Garber]

Funny I thought the same thing as many other posters, that it should have been an oval hole 3 point, at least, if not really carved from one piece of wood. What were they thinking? I don't think that Orville had anything to do with Handel tuners either. Strange.

Here is the photo for historical purposes.

[Wolfbane Stevens]

I at least like the Handel buttons. Does anybody know if the buttons are Mike Blohm replicas or something different? I don't suppose that they will start selling these? I guess it does say that this is a one of a kind.....

[woodwizard]

I do agree that an oval hole F 3pt model might have been a better representation of Orville but if you take a good look at other things through out this beautiful mandolin you can see that it is a first class mando. There are many things such as the fancy enlays especially that bring to mind to me Orville Gibson. When Orville Gibson made one of his best mandolins you would always see some fantastic beautiful enlay work. Because this one is an Orville I like the pickguard. Take a look at the enlay work . That reminds me of an Orville Gibson fancy mando. Not that it's like anything exactley like he did but just the fancy part is Orville. Same with the peghead enlay & fretboard. You have to admit Gibson picked some beautiful wood for this one. Sure ... it could have been more truer to his actual work but this one is a winner IMHO. I'm glad to see Gibson doing different things yet staying Gibson. Sure would like to pick on thaten' awhile.

[Rob Powell]

Not to hijack this thread but does anyone know where one might obtain said Mike Blohm replicas?

[woodwizard]

A real Orville

[JEStanek]

Mike Blohm's info off the builder database. (http://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin/builders/searchdb.cgi?uid=default&view_records=1&keyword=blohm&submit=Search)

I was thinking over dinner about this instrument and the Victorian (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=12;t=53322) model they released earlier this year. Again an F5 design by another name. Very odd things. I know Big Joe often said the cost of retooling for a shortnecked oval hole mandolin would be costly, but in these two instances, I think Gibson got it wrong.

Scroll through the Orvile Mandolins (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/list_mandolins.pl?orville) on the Mandolin archive. Nothing there looks like this. The woods are all plainer, the finishes aren't single color front and back, for the most part, except for the darker ones.

:confused:

Jamie

EDIT: Mike, that's pretty much the fanciest Orville I've seen. The detail (esp the added scroll at the bottom of the extension) is amazing. To me, that's a good example of a presentation grade instrument Orville would have built.

[atetone]

That is just silly.

[man dough nollij]

Antoniotsai moonlighting at the Nashville mall? Woo--gaudy.

It looks like a one-off to sit in a display case. If they were intending for it to be played, I think they would have varnished it.

I wonder what the "The Gibson" logo is inlaid with gold, but they don't mention it in the story. Gold abalone?

I think the top wood looks really cool. I've never heard of Black Spruce as a tonewood, though.

The cemetary tree thing is a little macabre. I spoze it's possible that some particles of old Mr. O made their way into the wood. Spooky.

[woodwizard]

Guess we all know if Gibson ever did do a production F model oval hole they would sell a bunch of them. Seems like to me they would be able sell enough to take care of the tooling costs for sure. The more I think about it Jamie's got a very good point.
There are many perfectionests on this site and I mean that in a good way. You can't fool them. I still think it's a nice mando tho. May not be right but it's nice.

[chip]

I like it. I would prefer that it was a varnish finish rather than the plastic looking lacquer finish. Wonder how much the retail price is?

[danb]

Well i'm a sucker for 3-pointers, but I can see the vibe they were going for here. I really quite like that older logo, that was a bit more flowery, and I also think the fingerboard inlay is pretty cool.

It's growing on me...

[danb]

This peghead is pretty cool. I don't have anything bad to say about it. look at how the old style logo meshes with a fern, and how the handel buttons blend in with the whole aesthetic. That's some nice blending of styles.

http://www.gibson.com/Files/_oai/Products/Orville_Mando_detail.jpg

[sunburst]

Thoughts on the new Orville Mandolin from Gibson?

Looks like they saw what Martin has been doing with their frequent "special edition" guitars and figured they could do it too. Take a design that's already in production and "fancy it up" with some design work, unique or otherwise. It's a Marketing strategy and a way to generate interest, and it looks like it's working... though this is only one page so far.

[Mike Bromley]

1] List price? More or less than a Cadillac Escalade?
2] If you owned one, would you dare take it out and play it?

Unlike the Walt Disney Victorian model, which had 15 pieces produced, this one is coyly presented as being a One-Off. The Victorian was testing the waters (theme-park mando) this one jumps right in. If it is a one-off, who is it aimed at? If it is more than an Escalade, who would want to go mudding with it and get the running boards dirty? It must have to be a collector, because as a player it is too, well, like a peacock to take out of the triple-alarmed display case. As a collector, um, well, who is the collector gonna be?

And the cemetary tree, well, that is really tacky. What did they do with the rest of it?

~:>

[woodwizard]

Those ARE Mike Blohm buttons. Man they are pretty. Mike told me there's something about these buttons just not looking right to him on a F5 style (f-holed) mandolin. They sure look good to me and it didn't stop me from ordering me a set about 3 months ago. I think the ETA now is 2 weeks. Can't wait to get them.

[sunburst]

As for the cemetery tree, usually when things like this happen it's because the tree had to taken down for some reason, and somebody thought something like; "Wow, Orville is buried here...I wonder if Gibson would be interested in using some of this wood for something special...something like...maybe...a special mandolin with an Orville Gibson theme! Yeah, that's it!" rather than someone saying; "Hey, I bet we can make a million if we can make a fancy mandolin with wood from a tree growing in the cemetery where Orville is buried...boys, go get me that tree!"
Sure it's gimmicky, but I doubt if the tree was deliberately sacrificed for this one mandolin, and if the wood is available and of decent quality, why not use it?

Spoke too soon on the one page thing, huh?

[Jonmiller]

Except for the corny PG, I like it! An oval hole-even with long neck would have added 75% more class without retooling.
It's always a bit sad that a "special model" is just a new color or something gimmicky added instead of something that we would treasure as mandolinists.

[MikeEdgerton]

I'm curious about the tree and checking with my man in Malone.

[Ken Olmstead]

I think it would have made a better 90th anniversary of the F5 or something. I agree with most that an Orville tribute would at least be an oval hole. Even a pimped out A model with inlaid pickguard would be cool. It would be seriously cool if it kicked off the new line of ovals! However, I think it is a sweet looker and as JB says, remove the pickguard (better yet replace it with something less tacky) and it trumps the Victorian by a long shot in my opinion.

Allen-"More or less that an Escalade." :)) :))

[Bob A]

Looks like a good plan: build one mandolin, get a LOT of buzz, then sell the mandolin. Brilliant, and essentially free advertising for Gibson.

Personally, I like Gibson stuff. I also have some fancy inlaid instruments, but I don't play them much. Too much worry about chunks falling off. But if you've got the money and a nice display case, why not go for it?

I agree with those who feel it ought to have been oval-hole.

[Fretbear]

The too large (& gold) "The Gibson" is not only unattractive, it bears no resemblance or tradition to the Orvillian mystique that this instrument is supposed to be all about. I am a hardcore F-5 fan, but part of the reason that I love them so much is because so many of Orville's ideas were retained in it.
The fact that Orville didn't use F-holes has already been mentioned.

[Stephen Lind]

that's just soooooo wrong:disbelief:
roll over Orville

[Glassweb]

oy vey... such a mess this mandolin!

[D Sears]

Gibson OAI has had this Orville wood since at least 2002. I worked at the OAI mandolin section in 2002, and when I was being trained, I noticed a stack of mandolin tops that had unusual grain. When I inquired about it, Charlie Derrington told me that the wood came from a tree that was rooted very, very close to Mr. Gibson's grave. Gibson OAI had aquired the tree and Mr. Derrington stated that sometime in the future that a few mandolins would be made with this "Orville" wood.

The cool factor about this wood, in Derrington's mind, was that the tree's rooting system being in the same location as Mr. Gibson's place of rest, the tree would have been nourished, literally, in part, by Mr. Gibson's remains. Literally, part of Orville is in that wood.

[danb]

The too large (& gold) "The Gibson" is not only unattractive, it bears no resemblance or tradition to the Orvillian mystique that this instrument is supposed to be all about.

Well, this is the circa 1906 logo:

http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/4723_peghead.jpg

[danb]

The cool factor about this wood, in Derrington's mind, was that the tree's rooting system being in the same location as Mr. Gibson's place of rest, the tree would have been nourished, literally, in part, by Mr. Gibson's remains. Literally, part of Orville is in that wood.

That feels kind of creepy to me

[MikeEdgerton]

The cool factor about this wood, in Derrington's mind, was that the tree's rooting system being in the same location as Mr. Gibson's place of rest, the tree would have been nourished, literally, in part, by Mr. Gibson's remains. Literally, part of Orville is in that wood.

That's making some very large assumptions that I won't even delve into.

Laura Ingalls Wilder is in that same cemetary as well.

[Fretbear]

[QUOTE=danb;584838]
Well, this is the circa 1906 logo:

Never saw that one before Dan; it looks better on the paddlehead.

[MikeEdgerton]

I got an answer from Dave Nichols, luthier, mandolin player, and inlay artist extraordinaire in Malone, NY. He said he was aware of tree being offered to Gibson but that's all he knew. I suggested that he start marketing his mandolins as being built in the same town where Orville was buried. A marketing gimmick like this doesn't come along very often. You can check out Dave's work at www.custompearlinlay.com (http://www.custompearlinlay.com).

[mandopete]

Icky.

[fatt-dad]

For what it's worth, and to likely repeat the thoughts of others. . .

Orville's signature mandolin should have been an oval hole.
What's with the pickguard?
Don't like the fretboard inlay.
Peghead is nice - just needs to be adapted for the paddle-head too (see comment 1)
It's too expensive (heck, I don't even know the price, but it's likley more than a DMM)
Just how big is the market for this "look"?

I think Gibson is missing out BIG TIME by ignoring the oval-hole, a-style market. If they could bring something to market under $2,500.00 street price, it'd sell. What in tarnation are they thinking with this type of nonsense.

f-d

[sgarrity]

It looks like a Pac-Rim instrument to me.

[Duc Vu]

I would be afraid of poking Orville in the eye playing this mandolin.

[billkilpatrick]

gussied up ...

[Jim Broyles]

That's making some very large assumptions that I won't even delve into.

Laura Ingalls Wilder is in that same cemetary as well.

Oooh! Little mandolin on the prairie. How cool is that?

[devilstone_the_bard]

I am just wondering if they contracted Antonio Tsai (ebay if you don't know) to help with the design on this sad puppy???

[MikeEdgerton]

Oooh! Little mandolin on the prairie. How cool is that?

There's a Vice-president of the United States buried there as well. I can't recall his name.

[Jim Broyles]

Hey, anybody catch this on the history write up?


Orville’s mandolins settled into two main styles, the A-Style and the F-Style (for Florentine)

Guess that settles it, sort of...

[Kevin K]

It a nice unique mandolin but not very Orville.

[Keith Erickson]

I don't know what to make of this. I was fine with everything up until the tree from the cemetery.

...but maybe that's just me. I guess I'll just sit back and see where this thread goes..... :popcorn:

[Keith Erickson]

There's a Vice-president of the United States buried there as well. I can't recall his name.

My apologies for the lack of mandolin content Mike...

Vice President William Wheeler who served under President Rutherford B. Hayes from 1877-1881.

[MikeEdgerton]

There's as much mandolin content in that as there is in anything else. We're talking a tree from a cemetary that was made into a mandolin. Now we know three famous people that "nourished" the wood.

[allenhopkins]

Yes, Jim I did read "Orville’s mandolins settled into two main styles, the A-Style and the F-Style (for Florentine)," and thought that this is the first time that Gibson's stated that "F" means "Florentine."

All the research I've done (admittedly not too extensive) indicated that Gibson, while making a "Florentine" banjo in the '20's or '30's, only used the "Florentine" designation for this EM-200 model electric mandolin (http://www.vintagemandolin.com/56gibsonflorentine.html) in the '50's. I haven't seen any documentation that, at the genesis of the "F" model mandolin in the 1900's, it was called "Florentine" at that point.

Now, since then, many people, myself included, have assumed that "F" meant "Florentine," but the blurb for the "Orville's" release is the first time I've seen Gibson say this explicitly. Of course, they may just be adopting the vernacular association between "F" mandolins and "Florentine," and there has often been a tendency to use Italianate descriptions for mandolins (you know, mandolin = Italian, right?).

I'm sure other Cafe-ers with much more experience and knowledge may have documentation showing that Gibson always called their "F" models "Florentine." All I know is, I haven't seen such.

[JEStanek]

Don't forget the squirrels and the birds.... :whistling:

Jamie

EDIT: Bob DeVellis's fine (http://bellsouthpwp.net/r/d/rdevelli/Gibson%20F-4.htm) article mentions Florentine style but I'm not sure if he was referencing Gibson documents or using our common vernacular.

[ilovemyF9]

Maybe it is the New Yorker in me but, this Mandolin looks like it was made for a Pimp in Hells Kitchen.....

Dreadful!

[John Hill]

There's as much mandolin content in that as there is in anything else. We're talking a tree from a cemetary that was made into a mandolin. Now we know three famous people that "nourished" the wood.

This tree issue is a fairly disgusting, morbid and is taking this Gibson "lifestyle" marketing thing waaaaayy too far.

An F-4 & A-4 model would be a home run for them I don't understand why they don't go in that direction instead of these ridiculous, super-high-end special model mandolins.

Oh well.

[MikeEdgerton]

The Florentine argument doesn't hold water because of one simple question that can't be answered. What do A, H, K, U, etc. stand for? How can we assume F stands for Florentine when there is no other name from that era that can be associated with the letter style? I'm positive that the Florentine designation was added later and even if Gibson is saying it the person saying it knows no more about this than anyone else. There is no uninterrupted Gibson Corporate archive of documents that I've ever heard of. All I recall hearing about is records lost in a fire. I'm sure there were body styles that Orivlle tried that were designated B. C, D, and E. perhaps one was the famous lyre mandolin on the label. It would appear to me the the A design and the F design worked and were kept in the line.

[Big Joe]

The wood is supposed to be from Orville's grave. That was what we were always told. It was being held for a special instrument, and we talked about a tribute to Orville, but we would not have done a Loar era replica. Charlie would not have used the burl material for the back, but it is pretty.

I also think it would have been better to use Ted Mchugh's and Lloyd Loar's designs for a tribute to Loar, but what do it know? Orville had nothing to do with the F5 as we know it. A tribute to Orville would certainly have been better to be an instrument he designed or built. But then again, what do I know :) ?

[JEStanek]

Folks remember, this particular instrument is a one off, which I guess means 1 and only 1. See this page (http://www.gibson.com/en%2Dus/Divisions/Gibson%20Original/Gibson%20Mandolins/The%2DOrville%2DMandolin/) from OAI with other details (calling it F style not Florentine) and additional photos. It is for sale. You need to contact a dealer for price. I would have thought this would have been placed in a Gibson Museum or something... But I guess like all horses, every mandolin is for sale.

Jamie

[Ken Olmstead]

What in tarnation are they thinking with this type of nonsense.

f-d

Well, I guarantee someone will buy this mandolin. Even at a sales price of $20k and not much more expense than a Sam Bush or Fern, they stand to make a fair amount of cabbage. It is like having the profit from 3 or 4 mandolins in one sale. Not bad for a days work! ;)

It's a wall hanger. Personally, I would buy Butch's old Florentine long before I would look at this one! It appeals to my banjo background!! :grin: It has the added benefit of having belonged to one of the best mandolin players that ever came down the pike and a wonderful guy to boot!!

[sunburst]

As an interesting (or not) aside, the Gibson Florentine banjo had scenes of Venice, not Florence, inlaid in the fingerboard and carved and painted in the back of the resonator. Over-the-top fancy instruments have been a tradition for a long time in Gibson's banjo line, the "All American" possibly being the epitome of that.
Take a trip through C.F. Martin's museum to see the direction ornamentation of otherwise stock designs has taken in recent years.

[danb]

"F" for "florentine" does in fact go way back in the catalogs. Some of the other letters were whimsical (for example A2z, which appears in a slogan with "everything from A to Z" in literature).

Remember, these guys were around for a while with an evolving catalog

[MikeEdgerton]

"F" for "florentine" does in fact go way back in the catalogs. Some of the other letters were whimsical (for example A2z, which appears in a slogan with "everything from A to Z" in literature).

Remember, these guys were around for a while with an evolving catalog

OK, but Orivlle wasn't. I agree that they could have called it a Florentine later on, I'm just saying it didn't stand for Florentine from the getgo. It stood for F.

[Bigtuna]

I must agree with some of the previous posts, it's just to busy for me personally. I feel like they went overboard on the inlay on the fretboard and head stock, and I'm still a sucker for the old "The Gibson" script. As for the pick guard, it would have to go (again to much going on)! I really wish Gibson would stop putting out all these limited edition and signature mandolins (in the 9k-22k price range) and put out a new "modern" mandolin that still delivers that Gibson sound but comes stock with a radius fretboard (compound would be nice), bigger frets, and a price tag thats similar to their current F-5G and F-5L. Maybe a F-5M or a F-5R?

[danb]

OK, but Orivlle wasn't. I agree that they could have called it a Florentine later on, I'm just saying it didn't stand for Florentine from the getgo. It stood for F.

I'm fairly sure it was "florentine" right from the start, but I'm not able to find a citation for you right now. I'm not sure that Orville ever advertised his hand-made instruments, but I do have literature going back to 1902 or so. I think they were in fact called florentine in a reference to a fairly obscure style that inspired the scrolls. I'll need to check my Walter carter book too for this when I get back home where my paperwork is, but feel free to beat me to it!

[MikeEdgerton]

Somebody needs to call George Gruhn. I read a quote in an article years ago where he discussed this but for the life of me I can't find it.

[woodwizard]

One of a kinds: If Martin can do it why not Gibson. I know they could have been truer to Orville but this mandolin is still keeping Orville alive so to speak. And also the Gibson legacy. I don't think it is as bad as some of you are making it out to be. It's sort of growing on me.

[JEStanek]

I think it's cool to like the particular instrument. I'm not saying anyone can't dig it's look or vibe. I just think its an odd way to honor Orville (and gloss over that he was effectively removed from the Company - as was Loar). This model, similar to the removal of Orville and Loar, are business decisions. The fact that there is only one still ensures it will sell and be collectible.

It's kind of like a Hat Maker making the Abe Lincoln signature hat with a copy of his signature inside a bowler.

Jamie

[AlanN]

It's a wall hanger. Personally, I would buy Butch's old Florentine long before I would look at this one! It appeals to my banjo background!! :grin: It has the added benefit of having belonged to one of the best mandolin players that ever came down the pike and a wonderful guy to boot!!

Have you played/held Butch's Florentine? Heavy and thick, with a concomitant sound, to my ears.

[Ken Olmstead]

Have you played/held Butch's Florentine? Heavy and thick, with a concomitant sound, to my ears.

No, I have not played it. If I could afford it, I would buy it as a piece of art and a collectible, but not as a player. I am sure this Orville has a nice sound but I would not buy it to play. I think that it will go to a collector, be off the radar for 15 years then resurface and be given a whole new lease on life. It seems to be the way these things go. Thanks for the comment on the sound Butch's florentine. I have always wondered what it sounded like. However, I must admit I am ignorant as to the meaning of "concomitant." I am pretty sure that it is not favorable though by the context! :grin:

[man dough nollij]

However, I must admit I am ignorant as to the meaning of "concomitant." I am pretty sure that it is not favorable though by the context! :grin:


I think it's like, when you don't eat enough fiber, and stuff.

[AlanN]

Close.

It means 'accompanying'.

I should have added that people buy things for many reasons, one of them being collectibility or provenance. And to the phrase 'it has a sound to peel paint', this one (Butch's) has the paint to peel!

[JEStanek]

concomitant
adj : following as a consequence

"The top is heavy and thick so the sound is not so good..."

No inference in quality just that the two go together by reason... e.g., The heavy rains and the concomitant flooding caused distress to the residents. The paired strings and their concomitant increase in volume make the 8 string mandolin louder than the 4 string...

Jamie

EDIT: ALANN beat me to it

[Timbofood]

I think the advertising department has saved themselves a considerable sum. I got the "notification" about this just this morning and already 3 pages of commentary on the Cafe!
I agree, they should have done something more "attributable" to Orville but, It's not up to me. Whoever ends up with this will have something! (I just am not so sure what.)

[Ken Berner]

Maybe it is an Asian Flatiron in drag!

[Gutbucket]

Like the headstock, lose the pickguard.

[Darryl Wolfe]

I just saw this thread and my thoughts run along the lines of most

Decent Idea
Not a very good execution of the idea
I think the peghead is the only part executed well
I would have gone blackface with color as-is on sides and back

[Ken Olmstead]

Please, for my simple brain, could someone please describe the sound of Butch's old florentine using normal adjectives like: bell like, complex, woofy, barks, thin, bluegrassy, modern, thumps, lacks volume, cuts or strong mids??

Then I can really understand what that mando sounds like! :))

(Not really that is getting WAY off topic! Just Joshin'! We now return you to your regularly scheduled program....)

[Keith Erickson]

:popcorn:

[bgmando]

I hope the Rosine constable is now keeping watch over the trees at Big Mon's grave.

I played 1905 or so three-pointer this summer, and I was surprised at how different it sounded from a teens A.
Like others, I'd like to have seen an Orville design modernized somehow for unique sound.

But, this will make for extra curious chatter when mando heads a century from now turn this one up in an attic.

[Bernie Daniel]

OK. Four pages of comment in about 2 days (83 posts) -- thats pretty good.

Gibson still stirs interest amidst the tribe at least. Everyone is expressing their opinion so I will too.

Overall I love the styling, color, inlays and everything except 1 through 5 below:

Like many others I think it should have been:
1) oval hole,
2) 3-point,
3) inlayed pickguard
4) varnished finish
5) red spruce top -- forget the silly "tree from the cemetery thing"
6)optional -- what about a birch back? maybe not.

So Gibson marketing blew it I think. There can only be one first Orville model --AND

Most of us have more than enough options to consider if we want another F-style, f-hole -- a modern F-style Gibson oval would be a hot item I think.

So what sense does a "one of one --and only one" make? :crying:

[frankenstein]

you can have mine for 20k and i'll give MIKE a nice reward. and it don't have a gaudy pickguard.:))

[chip]

So Gibson marketing blew it I think. There can only be one first Orville model -(QUOTE)

hmmm...I think Gibson pretty much knows marketing. I thinks it's a darn nice looking mandolin and at the right price I'd easily buy it, there's only one gibson!:))

[MikeEdgerton]

I think the advertising department has saved themselves a considerable sum...

Not really, they had to pay the OP to come here and post the message. He's a Gibson employee.

[JEStanek]

Not really, they had to pay the OP to come here and post the message. He's a Gibson employee.

Awww. Man! How did I miss that! Now I feel like I might have held back a bit much! He was clearly a Gibson Emloyee! Well, Gatorgabe, lots of folks have spoken, any thoughts on a new Gibson oval holed mandolin? Maybe something in the A9, F9 price range?

Jamie

[Bernie Daniel]

So Gibson marketing blew it I think. There can only be one first Orville model


chip: hmmm...I think Gibson pretty much knows marketing. I thinks it's a darn nice looking mandolin and at the right price I'd easily buy it, there's only one gibson!

Good. I hope you get it and that you enjoy it.

But Gibson won't be selling the Orville numbers 2 to 150 now will they?

My point being I think there would be a market for it -- but they already said its a one and only mandolin -- so I guess they better charge about $10 Mil for it 'cause its the only one for sale.

Any takers? :)

[GTG]

I'm most interested in the fact that it has a black spruce back. Never mind the fact that it's eating Orville's innards (I actually like that aspect! We should all be so lucky as to nourish a tree-turned-mando when we perish), but is this a common species for instrument tops? On $20k+ instruments? I've never heard of a black spruce top.

[frankenstein]

A real Orville

interesting that Mike Blohm thinks his replica buttons look kinda wrong on an f-5. i have 3 sets , 2 on f-5's and 1 on an f-4, one of the f-5's is a Blohm. i think they look right to me. the " REAL ORVILLE " has banjo style pegs, yeah a 3 point oval would have been the way to go with this one IMO..:cool:

[Stephanie Reiser]

I like it, for the most part. I like the instrument, and the idea.
I do not think the Handel-like tuner buttons look appropriate on an F-hole.
But it is a tribute instrument.
I would have thought that a 3-point oval would have made more sense, but this one is cute. The peghead is beautiful.
The pickguard is kinda busy, but so are alot of Gibson guitar pickguards with birds and flowers and such.
But I think that Gibson had a great idea. I think they will accomplish exactly what they've set out to do.
Good for them!

[Moldrush]

This mandolin Is a Beautiful piece of art. This mandolin wasn't ment to be an exact replica of orville's oval hole It was built to commemerate the the origanal man that started it all. everybody has there own opinion and is entitled to it but that doesn't take away from the fact that this is a gorgous mandolin with high craftmanship and alot of time patience to build. It is not the run of the mill production mandolin, and as far as the sound it's a good sounding mandolin the black spruce is warmer sounding than sitka or red spruce from what I remember. I have heard and it is on display at the Gibson booth at IBMA this weekend.

[Jim Broyles]

Mold, with due respect, I agree on the workmanship, but if they want to call a mandolin an Orville, it probably should have been oval hole and 3 point. If they wanted to hypothesize on what an Orville with f holes might have looked like, then this could be it. I still don't think the right angle back to rim is authentic looking. And that pickguard is flat gaudy.

[Moldrush]

I love oval hole mandolins, and this would ahve been extra cool if it was oval hole, and people would still be bashing it. as a commemerative piece I think it's great. thats my opinion an. as far as gaudy I'm not a very flashy person but Gibson always has been they've always done presentation peices for example The bella vocha banjo's thats pretty gaudy at the time who else was any fancier than Gibson in the late 1800's early 1900's. Even look at the Cherry mastermodel that charlie built thats a gorgous piece what if that was built today. what would the postes be.

[Jim Broyles]

Well, I highly doubt people would be bashing this mandolin if it were oval holed. I guess we'll never know, but one thing seems certain to me - a modern looking F5 style does not scream"Orville Gibson!" no matter how you decorate it. A cherry MM is a whole different animal. The posts would probably be split some way or another about whether people cared for its looks, etc., but it was not supposed to evoke thoughts of a historical event or figure, so I doubt it would be bashed today. And the fact that Gibson has done gaudy before does not make the PG on this mando any less gaudy. It's gaudy and the Bella Voce was too. FWIW, I like the headstock and tuners on this one. The Handels could be a bit much - pearly or ivory looking ones would look just as good, IMO, but these look okay.

[MikeEdgerton]

Well, if it's any consolation, take a look at Gatorgabe's last announcement of a new Gibson Mandolin (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40701). You might see a trend developing here that isn't being reflected in the market, assuming they've sold all of the last special model they built. What is being echoed by the rank and file Cafe members may not have any relationship to what is selling off the dealers shelves. That would not surprise me. This group is a well educated and opinionated group of people but we certainly only represent a small portion of the total mandolin buying public.

[Jonathan Peck]

From the posting guidelines FAQ:

"Refrain from using the message board as a point of selling items to others or for the purpose of discussing or linking to items you are selling. Please limit selling activities to the Classifieds section of this web site or other external locations."

[Timbofood]

Didn't realize OP was in the employ of "The Man" but, still one must admit... 2 days-4 pages of commentary by (who mostly are) knowledgeable in the field is "good press, for the money paid!"
I sure as shooting won't be the guy to buy it but, I still think marketing is getting significant return on the payroll. I am sure Gator gabe has other things to do at the company than just place posts here so, he's paid for his job and he feels like blowing the horn now and then, If I worked somewhere and could blow the horn to increase business by 3 minutes placing a post I would do it in a NY minute. I guess I'm ready for the next fun thread to arive.

[Big Joe]

To speak on defense (kind of) for the Big G, they really do not have the means to build a three point or an oval hole at the current time. They do not have the tooling or machining to do what we would all like to see. They build the mandolins they build, and they don't deviate very much. They can adjust finish, color, inlay, wood types, binding, etc to achieve whatever goal they have, but they still can only build what they build.

Is this mandolin worth whatever they are asking? Only the market will tell. I am pretty sure someone will fall in love with it, and it will become thier property. I have no problem with the gaudiness of it. I kind of like gaudy. However, I'm not in the market for that mandolin so it does not matter to me if I like it or not. I am entitled to my opinion though, and my only complaint is they named it for Orville who NEVER had any hand or voice in the F5 mandolin as it is known today. He was gone from the company by 1908 so he did not participate in the designs of the Loar era. This could have been a great tribute to Loyd Loar in its current form, except the wood from Orville's grave is what gives it the Orville connection.

Black Spruce is a good wood for the top. It will have a different sound from Red spruce or Sitka, but that does not equate to bad. Just different. Like so many others I wish they would have built an oval hole...even if it is a modern take on the oval hole like the ones we built a few years ago. Oh well, it is not my problem one way or the other. It sure is fun to be on the sideline :) .

[Timbofood]

Gee Joe, I am with you 100% on being on the sidelines, I just wonder how all the early guys would see this. Are they laughing, crying, or looking at this thing and saying "Huh?"

[MikeEdgerton]

From the posting guidelines FAQ:

"Refrain from using the message board as a point of selling items to others or for the purpose of discussing or linking to items you are selling. Please limit selling activities to the Classifieds section of this web site or other external locations."

He identifies himself as an employee of Gibson in his tagline. Scott has always allowed builders to display their mandolins.

[Jonathan Peck]

Enough said about that. Guess I'm kind of glad he doesn't come here and post a picture of every mandolin that Gibson completes though:grin: would be nice if he stuck around and participated in the threads that he starts instead of the hit and run. I think it would add a little credibility and add to the interest in these new projects that Gibson is working on. Instead we had four pages of what were they thinking and what does an 'F' style have to do with Orville. Oh yeah, and the blood and flesh sucking tree of magical mandolin. The top wood is probably the most interesting thing about this mandolin (origin or not) and represents a huge departure from the traditional adi/sitka and yet the questions go unanswered. Oh well, I guess I'll just move on, nothing more to look at here.

[Rob Powell]

Gee Joe, I am with you 100% on being on the sidelines, I just wonder how all the early guys would see this. Are they laughing, crying, or looking at this thing and saying "Huh?"


I'm guessing a bit of laughter...Big Joe might be able to shed some light here but considering the stories I've heard of Charlie's delight in a good practical joke...it may have been his intent to see what the market would do with a mandolin that has the "essence" of Orville in it....or maybe he just thought it would be cool to make a mandolin with Orville's spirit residing in it.

While it's a bit macabre, it's like a train wreck...I can't help but look:grin:

It's a tribute to Orville and his contributions to the mandolin world past and present not to mention his possible contribution to this particular mandolin.;)

[bgmando]

I'm a little surprised that with all the Gibson hand-built master model craftsmen supposedly building them like they did in the old days, that they can hand carve out a few necks and design and saw out the parts for an updated oval hole. Especially for the price they want for one.

[MikeEdgerton]

Sometimes the biggest part of innovation or in this case retrovation (hey, that's a great word) in a large corporation is selling it to the people running the company. As much as all of the old reissue instruments from Martin and Gibson look like a tribute to the past they are always about what can be sold today. If Hans Brentrup can build F4's then I'm assuming Gibson could if they chose to. It's that last part that matters. You have to choose to do it. They choose not to.

[Rick Banuelos]

I wonder if anyone else has heard a mandolin made from solid black spruce? Thanks for looking ... I look forward to the responses.


I have. I had the opportunity to play one about a year ago. The spruce was, however, from Ontario.

rb

[Timbofood]

Tooling aside, if they are making a "One off" (their choice of words) they should have one guy ( or even a crew) build ONE and within the spectrum of the available tooling I really am hardpressed to think they could not build a 3 point, oval hole with at least a nod to the founder of their namesake business. I have seen small enough builders that understand the "hows and whys" of custom work that given the resources available to the "Company" the construction of a "True One of a Kind" design should not be within the realm of possibility. I understand the single builder and a major player in the world of manufacture are far removed but, with such special components at stake, why not make something innovative in design like they would have under the direction of forward thinking engineers like Loar and OHG, Derrington et al.? I realize C.D. was not, strictly speaking an engineer for the company but, Gibson has employed many "consultants" over the years whose effort are mostly unknown to the general public but, you get the point.

[UsuallyPickin]

I guess everybody on the site has an opinimn about this one...... F holes on an F body???? Orville??? Hmmmm Headstock is tres cool love the rep Handels .. THe inlay is nicely done but not nearly Orville ... One Off not one Of ??? I'm lost here Oh well I guess this is a Presentation mandolin never to be anywhere a mic / strap and pick. Is there a point here?

[Bernie Daniel]

I am a little surprise by Big Joe's statement too --

He feels that Gibson does not have the capacity to build an oval hole F-style mandolin.

I can only assume that he mean given current economic status of the company -- they cannot afford to free up a master luthier to build it.

But certainly Gibson still has the in-house knowledge, skills, and wherewithall to build a long neck F4? Don't they?

[Ken Olmstead]

I have. I had the opportunity to play one about a year ago. The spruce was, however, from Ontario.

rb

and.....:confused:

[JEStanek]

I can only assume that he mean given current economic status of the company -- they cannot afford to free up a master luthier to build it.

Like Mike said, it is a choice of the Corporation. Not of the employees who work for it what is built and what is not built. He wrote "They do not have the tooling or machining to do what we would all like to see. They build the mandolins they build, and they don't deviate very much." I take that at face value, they don't deviate from their production plan or models.

Clearly, that decision hasn't hurt Gibson. People haven't stopped buying Gibson mandolins because Gibson doesn't make an oval hole model. There are plenty of other options. Their decision may not have hurt the Company, but it hasn't grown the Company either.

Jamie

[John Hill]

To speak on defense (kind of) for the Big G, they really do not have the means to build a three point or an oval hole at the current time.

Don't have the means?

http://www.therushforum.com/html/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Big Joe]

It is not the ability to build any kind of mandolin they wish, but the corporate approval and time needed to truly do new creations or cool retro designs. Any product they produce must have the big guys approval, and if it does not come then it cannot be officially built. The guys doing the actual building and design are at the mercy of corporate approval. Whether it is a one off or a limited run or a production run, they are still only allowed to build what they get approval for.

We made every effort to get approval for the F6 (long scale oval hole F model) but never recieved it. Therefore, the guys are relegated to building a modern F5 with the tribute to Orville. I would never challenge the ability of the guys at OAI to build whatever they had a mind to, but the ability to get it approved for sale is another issue that has nothing to do with the ability of the builders. This is not just a Gibson issue, but nearly every manufacturer of nearly any product deals with these issues. This is hard for some to understand, but it is the way it is. Creativity is always held in check by corporate decisions. The battle is always between those who are extremely creative and those who don't have the same vision. The guys doing the work and design are interested in creating art in the form of instruments, the corporate office is concerned about the bottom line. Sometimes these interests go together, sometimes they do not. Corporate also looks at a larger picture of where they are going than any particular division. Some days one division is the hero, others it is the dog. I guess the process helps keep companies like the big G in business while still creating marketable art. Just my observations.

[Santiago]

An Orville should be made in Kalamazoo.

[Moldrush]

The one thing being left out here is the fact that is is a multimillion dollar corp. and as with any mega corp you can't just walk in one morning and decide in this case to build an oval mandolin. idea's have to be put into forms which have to be reviewed and passed along then meetins upon meeting even probably marketing polls to determine how sales are gonna be is it worth retooling just for a limited edition or small run there is a lot of money in tooling a shop, and to add the tooling to make a three point for one mandolin may not make since in corporate land. One of the glorius reasons to build for yourself.

[Jim Broyles]

Nobody's talking about walking in one morning and deciding to build a mandolin they haven't built in years. We have information in this thread that they have had the wood for 6 years - plenty of time to plan to make an authentic Orvillesque mandolin, especially if it's going to be a production run of one unit. No amount of rationalization will convince me that they could not have built an oval hole 3 point if they really wanted to make an "Orville" mandolin. I imagine if they had done a market study of an instrument such as this, the Mandolin Cafe would have caught wind of it.

[Moldrush]

your right Jim they could build a three point, and the luthiers would love to but that still doesn't overpower the corporate end of it. and who knows if these limited runs like the Victorian and The Orville do good maybe corporate will allow some new things like oval holes. I guess time will tell.

[man dough nollij]

You lurking out there Spruce Harvey? I'd be interested to hear more about Black Spruce as a top wood. :confused:

[Jim Broyles]

Seems to be more of a dimension lumber wood than a tone wood. It's some of what you get in SPF at the lumber yard, depending on the forester. It's also used for pulp.

[MikeEdgerton]

It is not the ability to build any kind of mandolin they wish, but the corporate approval and time needed to truly do new creations or cool retro designs. Any product they produce must have the big guys approval, and if it does not come then it cannot be officially built. The guys doing the actual building and design are at the mercy of corporate approval. Whether it is a one off or a limited run or a production run, they are still only allowed to build what they get approval for.

That's pretty much what I said. Here's the bigger piece of the puzzle. Even if they made this thing as a three point or an oval hole, how many of us would step right now and order one? I could answer that but I think we all know the answer. Not very many of us. We would however approve of it. :cool:

[allenhopkins]

Interesting discussion about whether G could/should build a replica early-1900's mandolin as a tribute to Orville G. Hey, why not the lyre mandolin pictured on the old label?

C F Martin Co. seems to have no trouble cranking out dozens of limited-edition signature models. G's electric guitar division has 13 variants of the Les Paul listed on their regular "electric guitars" page, 15 more on the "custom shop" page. So they obviously feel there's a market for "retro" reissues, special finishes, signature models etc. in that area.

I think the reaction to the Orville mandolin on the Cafe, indicates that there is a market for a real tribute reissue mandolin, similar in design to the early-1900's models that Orville G and his immediate successors designed. Probably not so much of a market for the mandolins he made that had the back and neck carved from a single piece of wood...

And on the subject of the current Orville mandolin: I think it's garish. The inlay, pickguard ornamentation etc. look like a Nudie suit on Porter Wagoner. I'm reminded of the Formica-topped Martin guitars with a portrait of C F Martin laminated into the lower bout. However, you can pick up one of those for $2-300, and if you don't like Christian Frederick, you can get one with Felix the Cat instead. About the semi-ghoulish use of a spruce tree from Orville's grave, hey, whatever floats your boat. Taylor Guitars had their "Liberty Tree" and "Cujo" models, with wood from specific trees, but never implied that Bob Taylor's DNA was somehow flowing through the X-bracing. (Of course, Bob's still very much alive.)

[Bernie Daniel]

Yes I kind of feel like Allan does -- and this is my perspective.

I don't see this build as being some kind of big business decision to be made a the highest levels of the Board of Directors -- is it?

We are talking about ONE solitary mandolin -- period. Its a one and only.

I agree its a big deal decision if they are going build 500 or 1000 of them and go after a new market segment that perhaps may or may not be there right now.

THAT would be a major commitment of manpower, time, inventory, marketing and so forth....

This is totally different -- they had to decide how to build one solitary mandolin -- they called it the "Orville" and really it has much less to do with what Orville did for the company or what he did for the American mandolin than it should (my opinion).

I think that's too bad because as I recall his last name was Gibson.

I just think it is an arrow that missed the mark. Of course someone will buy it -- so what? Someone would buy a pet rock owned by Elvis too.

Is that sale going to impact Gibson stock? NO. That's not the issue.

The value of that mandolin was to celebrate the origins of the company -- its rich heritage right? Well take a poll on this mandolin crazy site -- we know mandolins -- let's see how they did.

[frankenstein]

if you take this instrument on face value i like it just fine. the orville connection doesn't work for me. but as a fancy mandolin it works if you like that kind of thing. the goldrush is a gibson design that works. so i'd put the pickguard off the goldrush on it and put the orv in the case. :whistling:

[Bernie Daniel]

frankenstein: if you take this instrument on face value i like it just fine. the orville connection doesn't work for me.

I agree with that too -- I actually like the mandolin just fine -- its different and fresh looking. I love to have a mandolin like that. And I'm sure it has that great Gibson sound -- black spruce or whatever.

It just does not really celebrate or remind me of Orville Gibson much -- that's my take. :)

[jim_n_virginia]

I like it except for the fretboard inlay and the pickguard. Less is more and Gibson went just a little too far in my opinion in making the mandolin "special"

I love the headstock inlay with the Handel tuner look though. Nice.

Anybody figure out what one of these cost yet? I haven't seen a price.

I'm gonna guess $22K

[MikeEdgerton]

Allen, it's funny that you mentioned the Taylor Liberty Tree guitars. I was thinking about that last night. I would actually consider buying one of those for the history aspect. I might consider buying one of those instruments built by Washburn from the seats of the Ryman Auditorium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryman_Auditorium), but the wood from a tree that was near Orville's grave doesn't really seem to connect for me. Also, Bernie, as Gibson is a company that surivives by making money (nothing wrong with that), I'm going to guess that if more people wanted one of these they'd build it or something similar. That's just business.

[man dough nollij]

From the brochure:

*Don’t Doubt!*

Just paying happy you can get very valued musical intrusments here!
Most of our auctions are starting from very low price even.

*No Reserver!*

Please try your good luck to win these valued intrusments.
They will bring good wealth, happiness to your business and life.

Small items will be combined shipping with intrusments without
playing extra shipping costs for small items.

:popcorn:

[fredfrank]

Anybody figure out what one of these cost yet? I haven't seen a price.




One of these? As near I as I can deduce, there is only one.

From the web page at Gibson:

"The Orville Mandolin — an exclusive one-off creation, never seen before and never to be produced again — "

[JEStanek]

If you want to know the price you'll have to ask a dealer according to the OAI site. (http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Divisions/Gibson%20Original/Gibson%20Mandolins/The-Orville-Mandolin/)

"See your authorized Gibson Mandolin Dealer to inquire about price and availability."

Jamie

[frankenstein]

there is a mandolin in the classifieds made by Orville not getting as much attention as this. :disbelief:

[red7flag]

<Content removed by site owner>

The wording in this post in inappropriate.

[Mikey G]

I saw it today at IBMA...took one quick look, but got distracted by the $225K Loar over at Elderly's booth. One was impressive, one wasn't.

[Keith Erickson]

:popcorn:

[sunburst]

Never mind.

[Scott Tichenor]

Wow, I haven't looked at this in a couple of days, but I sure got an earful of it at IBMA from about every possible direction. What a sad, disappointing collection of piling on posts from a good part of this community. I actually played the instrument today. Impressive. That was George Gruhn's comment about the instrument, but what the hell does he know?

[allenhopkins]

Don't know who delivered the "earful," but three days ago the OP gave us a link to G's description of their Orville commemorative model, and asked for opinions. Many of us responded to the invitation. None of us had seen this instrument "live," or had a chance to play it. All the information we had was what G put on their website.

Some of us thought that G could have designed a more appropriate tribute to Orville Gibson, by re-creating one of his early designs. There's a lot of apparent desire for a "new F-4," or something like it, from the company. Some discussion ensued of why corporate policy may or may not make this likely.

Some of us were a bit "creeped out" by the use of a tree from the cemetery where Orville Gibson is buried. This part of the discussion did, IMHO, wander somewhat afield (pun unintended).

I personally am guilty of saying I thought the ornamentation was "garish." If that's unduly harsh, I'm sorry. My esthetics may lean toward a more restrained look. Quite a few of us thought the portraiture on the pickguard was a bit over the top, but taste is individual, and it certainly is distinctive looking!

George Gruhn -- and you, Scott -- know a lot more about mandolins than I ever will. If you and he have played the "Orville," and find it "impressive," than I gladly yield to greater knowledge and experience. But remember: Cafe members were asked to react to a couple of pages on G's website. We can't all visit IBMA; we can't go down to our local music store and try an "Orville"; we can't listen to one of our favorite artists playing one; all we can do is respond to what we were given.

If what our collective "wisdom" came up with is "sad" and "disappointing," I take responsibility for my part in that, and apologize. But when people are asked for their opinions and reactions, and given only limited information, they respond as best they can. I think that's what a majority of the posts on this thread reflect.

[Scott Tichenor]

I think at this point it's best I not post further what I really think about this thread so I'm closing it. I'll advise it will be unwise to contact me privately in regard to this or to start another thread.