View Full Version : just for kicks
for you mado experts out there. how's about a disscussion on mandolin purchase for investment. let's use 10K for a budget to have a starting point. I was thinking like Gibson fern f5 or maybe and older F4, or a Bush. nothing serious, just thinking of re-sale value down the road, and what might be the best bet. as to playability, well that would be a hit or a miss with me. at this point I am at a starting over place, hoping for improvment as time goes on. 2 finger chords rule.
Dan
JEStanek
Sep-30-2008, 8:47am
I don't know how much anything new by a production shop will appreciate. Look at those RS DMM that came out for 25K and are selling used for 16K now. Vintage may increase in value as they aren't being made anymore but do you want to keep it pristeen so as to not lower its value.
There may be better investments. Spend your money and get an instrument that inspires you to play, is comfortable and has a tone you love. The investment in yourself will have a higher return.
Jamie
EDIT: I'm no expert. Troll through the Vintage section to learn more about investment and returns...
I don't think the value of vintage mandolins grows in a predictable way. The value is too dependant on seemingly arbitrary things. Monroe played a scroll. People want a snakehead all of a sudden. People like the third point on the F2. Someone fameous plays a Dudenbostal.
I look at the value of my baby (see avatar), and it amounts to something a bit less than 5% a year since 1985. I could (and did) do better in mutual funds. Now if Sierra Hull were to decide the A2 is going to be her main instrument, or if Marty Stuart were to reveal that he actually prefers the A2 and just never appears in public with it, who knows.
And my A2, being a 1923, is probably riding on the more recent yabadaba about Loar Era. Loar had nothing, probably, to do with it directly, but in some eyes that would boost its value. (And even the F5 Loar would not be all that valuable if it had not been for Bill Monroe, who certainly did not pick his mandolin because it was a Loar, or an F5 for that matter.)
Its an interesting topic, to be sure, but purchasing a mandolin for a long term investment is, in general, probably a little better than putting the money in a savings account. Of course there are exceptions, but hindsight is 20/20.
Steve Ostrander
Sep-30-2008, 9:27am
Well, a Loar would have been a good investment 80 years ago, if you could have predicted the appreciation, and lived long enough to reap the benefit. At the time they probably just seemed overpriced.
San Rafael
Sep-30-2008, 1:42pm
Jamie Stanek's note above seems on target in the near term: modern "big shop" American mandos may not exactly blow your hair back in terms of increase over the next few years. On the other hand, the same instruments do seem to "hold" value better than most (not all) of the boutique builds, and who knows what will happen in twenty years. A mid-level Gibson in good shape from '02-'03, for instance, seems to sell now for most of its "new" street price back then. Collings seem to do at least as well. Webers keep up pretty well too.
billkilpatrick
Sep-30-2008, 2:06pm
you could make some money on it if it had a history ... was played by someone famous on a regular basis, for example ... or prove that it had been encased in wax and dredged up from the titanic (i've read there are two violins in that condition) ... or ... you could take a fireplace poker to it and say "she's baaack ..."
allenhopkins
Sep-30-2008, 4:03pm
Depends on long-term vs. short-term, to some extent. For short-term, a vintage instrument, which won't take the initial "hit" of new-to-used depreciation, would be my choice. "Major label" for broadest sales appeal; you can do well with a "niche" instrument, but you have to find the right purchaser. Everyone's heard of Gibson/Martin/etc. Jamie's posting hits one nail on the head; read George Gruhn's article on the influence of Mike Bloomfield on the value of Gibson Les Paul guitars in the '60's. Clapton's Strat ditto. Association of a particular brand/model with a "star" confers an immediate uptick in sales value. Mandolins, being a quantum smaller market, don't get the benefit of ten thousand eighteen-year-old kids suddenly going in search of a particular instrument, but Thile or Grisman or etc. can still confer a premium by publicly playing a Wonder Wart Hog F-5 or whatever.
Long-term, I'd just get the best instrument I could, and the one I liked to play the most, new or used. Assume you're not going to stick it in a climate-controlled undisclosed location and let it sit for 30 years. Those Distressed Master Models mentioned above have taken their initial value hit, and should be heading up over the years. But if you want something you can buy now, play for quite a while, and sell at a respectable profit, your uncertainty level is higher, and IMHO you're best off buying a quality instrument, major label or small builder, that you'll enjoy owning and playing. You can leave it to your kids...
Speaking of which: having accumulated six dozen (mostly quality) instruments over the past 40 years, and having just received my Medicare card in the mail, I start to consider where they're all going in the next 20 years or so. "Dying with the most toys" is a cute proverb, but I'm only the temporary custodian of some precious creations, and I like to think their music will outlast me by many many years. Investments -- well, yes, in a way -- but also valued companions.
Santiago
Sep-30-2008, 4:28pm
Buy something good. Play it. Clean it. Care for it. Enjoy it. Then, if you find out later it has appreciated (as has my Gibson Guitar, etc) it's all gravy. If it depreciates -- well, then you enjoyed playing a great instrument and you got your money's worth. If it holds value, you came out way ahead. Some instruments are good for speculating, but most aren't. These aren't stocks -- they're headstocks, and they're meant to be played.
TomTyrrell
Sep-30-2008, 4:59pm
Search until you find a perfect Gibson mandolin made before 1930 that is priced within your budget. Put the mandolin away in a carefully controlled environment and under no circumstances play it. Don't handle it without gloves and then only when absolutely necessary. Your return on investment will be as high as it could be.
Or, find a pre-owned mandolin that you really like and enjoy the heck out of it. Take reasonable care of it but don't get upset about a few tiny dings and scratches. Your return on investment will be whatever it is.
I tend to like the second option better.
Mike Bunting
Sep-30-2008, 5:01pm
These aren't stocks -- they're headstocks, and they're meant to be played.
So true, perhaps the current economic crisis indicates where speculation leads.
man dough nollij
Sep-30-2008, 8:30pm
By far the best investments are instruments that have been played by famous politicians. It might take $600K to get the most amazing mandolin in the world, which has even been played in Africa.
For $10K, though, you should be able to get something played by a mediocre senator in Juarez. I'm thinkin'.
Buy something good. Play it. Clean it. Care for it. Enjoy it. Then, if you find out later it has appreciated (as has my Gibson Guitar, etc) it's all gravy. If it depreciates -- well, then you enjoyed playing a great instrument and you got your money's worth. If it holds value, you came out way ahead. Some instruments are good for speculating, but most aren't. These aren't stocks -- they're headstocks, and they're meant to be played.
Well said. I think that is as consise a statement of my opinion as I have seen.
:mandosmiley:
possibly, a misunderstood thread. not looking to make money, just not loose any. example, purchasing a fairly nice ax and trusting that it would not loose value.