I did it...Sanded and spray finished the 29 Jr.A

[Dano Reible]

I went to the store and found some Deft wood finish clear Lacquer in satain and some spray lacquer in black to dress up my 1912 Gibson A Jr. and thanks to all the help on deciding what finish would be ok to use and I have to say that she came out exactly how I wanted. One of the big things was the glue on the bottom from a sloppy but very strong repair bothered me and I have always loved black finished mandos so paint seamed to be my only real choice to accualy cover the glue as stain of course would not absorb into the glue, so a lite coat of black on the back sides and just faded over the top and v'd up the neck.
Then a nice coat of satain lacquer over the top, sides, back and just covering the bottom of the neck area finished her off. Still looks old, classic but in my honest oppinion 10000000 times better. Very little build up of material (I took more off that put on accualy) and a beautiful Gibson is now in my posession.
Thanks Again :cool:

[Mike Bromley]

Wow...looks like an A-9 in a spooky kind of way...nice!

[Bernie Daniel]

I think it looks great.

It will certainly cause some second looks... gee I've never seen a Gibson with the finish before...:)

Good job. Some purists will be unhappy but its your mandolin.

[Dano Reible]

I think it looks great.

It will certainly cause some second looks... gee I've never seen a Gibson with the finish before...:)

Good job. Some purists will be unhappy but its your mandolin.

Thanks
Well the thing was coated with a slop of stain and looked horable so I would say that the purists would have possibly gone a diffrent way but as you said it's my mandolin and at least I treated it with some respect....

[delsbrother]

I think I would've gone with red, myself. But whatever floats your boat!

[atetone]

Considering the price that you paid for that Ajr Dano (I almost bid on that one myself) it looks to me that you have ended up with a real good result all the way around.
That looks like a good old mando with some real character for a good price.
Ya done good.

[Philphool]

Looks good. I can't see the tail piece very well. Is it the original?

[Dano Reible]

I am not shure, it barly wraps over the top of the mandolin and looks like it has raised edges to slide a cover on. Is that how the origials were set up? If so I would love to find a reproduction in black! Or better yet an old sratched up, bent, broken one someone has sitting around I could fix and paint. Just thought, a wood one would be cool and not that hard to make. Sounds like a project to work on, now to find a nice piece of wood.......

[Fretbear]

That would probably be a "kidney" style tailpiece cover. Stewmac used to sell them but has discontinued supplying them for some reason. I use one (on an F-5) without the cover, so you don't really need it, but there is a European company that does currently supply that style of tailpiece and cover.

[latentaudio]

So not to start a war or anything, what does refinishing this instrument do to its value? What was the instrument worth before the refinish and then after?

[MikeEdgerton]

That tailpiece was a Waverly Clam Shell or Cloud style (depending on who is describing it). They haven't been manufactured in years, why I don't know. The good news is that this same tailpiece was used on Harmony and Kay mandolins up through the 60's, into the 70's so you can generally buy a beater on eBay and grab the tailpiece. Martin used them as well. It's missing the tailpiece cover. Take a look at this Martin from Frank Ford's frets.com Museum (http://www.frets.com). This is what the cover looked like.

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Museum/Mandolin/Martin/1959A/59AViews/59a02.jpg

[Dano Reible]

Thanks Mike;
That will help and cost much less than replaceing it with an original tailpiece and since she isn't original it realy doesn't matter to me.

Thanks Again

[Dano Reible]

So not to start a war or anything, what does refinishing this instrument do to its value? What was the instrument worth before the refinish and then after?

No wars here......

Lets look at it two ways:

1st. The value of the instrument when I got it was what I paid for it whether too much or no enough. $500. Only an expert could say what the value was but I would not think the the $500. I payed was far off the mark for a 1929 A Jr. with a sloppy but strong glue repair on the bottom back fixing a good 3-4 inches of a one time separation, non-original tailpiece without cover, and a thick, ugly, sloppy gel stain wiped over the whole mandolin without a case and worn out strings.
Did removing the majority of the sloppy stain lower it's value? I doubt it.
Did covering the mess of glue and old worn out finish with a very lite coat of high quality lacquer and coating the whole mando body with a high quality satain finish to protect what is there? Not shure, but I doubt it.
Does the fact that the mandolin looks better than it did before lower it's value? I realy doubt it.
Was it a good move it the "true collectors" value of the instrument? I realy do not know but no matter the condition could it be worth less that $500? I doubt it.

2nd. It's my mandolin, she's still a 1929 A Jr. that sounds out of the world good, she looks 1000000 times better, I accualy think she sounds better without all that thick stain on her, and last but not least I think you would be hard pressed to find a mandolin that sounds and looks as good as this with as much carater and class as this mandolin anywhere for the same investment of $500. with shipping, $15.00 in suplies, a set of strings, and a few hours of enjoyable labor.
Last but not least, and really the most important fact of all. I love this mandolin and she looks and sounds perfect to me and she will be played more now that she has been for a very long time I would bet. And if you think you could buy her for that same $500. your nuts, would I take a grand, NO.

Did the value increase? I say yes. No matter how you look at it.

But then again that is just my opinion, but really what else counts?

[mandroid]

There is a, currently available, one of the type with an Oval cover, I got one from stewmac,

likely you can bend the ears to fit the base , and leave it as it is ..in site.

they work OK as a Banjo-mandolin TP too, cover is a reasonably comfy armrest.

:popcorn:

[Red Henry]

Good job, Dano! Just curious-- was the back of this A-Jr birch, or maple (sometimes fancy) as some of them were?

Red

[jim_n_virginia]

Hey as long as YOU like it thats what matters. And I agree if the damage was as bad as you say I think you probably increased the value.

:mandosmiley:

[delsbrother]

You certainly increased the value of the mandolin to you, and I suppose that's the most important when it comes down to it.

Whether it is objectively more valuable now than in its previous condition is debatable, especially to a collector. As long as you did no physical harm and everything is reversible, I'd say it was at least in the same condition as before (i.e. repaired and "refinished"). You state you wouldn't SELL it for $1000, but you also have to consider whether anyone would offer that much to BUY it.

Now had you sent it off for full "restoration" it would IMO have been worth much more than $500. Enough to offset the cost of restoration? Maybe, maybe not. After all, it would still be repaired and refinished. But I think the closer it looked to original the more attractive it would be to the average buyer.

Of course if you never plan on selling then the whole point is moot. Just be aware SHOULD the instrument ever leave your hands the next owner might not be as appreciative of your refinish job - remember, the last guy probably thought it looked 1,000,000 times better than before too! :)

[woodwizard]

If you're happy that's all that counts and it sounds like you are. How does she sound?

[Dano Reible]

I'm not shure what the back is made of as I didn't take the finish past the point of just cleaning off the stain that was added. But I didn't notice anything special or any figuring in it.
The sound is wonderfull, a nice and dark warm tone.
Thanks for the info on the tailpiece cover.
Thanks all.

[Lee Callicutt]

I think it works. I like it. A black-back!

[Stephen Lind]

Dano
you've done the near impossible
and pulled it off with taste
it looks...

Right

now that's REALLY hard to do
beautiful job man

[Oliver R]

Yes, your a brave man indeed, what you have done looks top class to me.
It's a really old time look and whats more its pretty unique to you.:)

[latentaudio]

Don't get me wrong. I like the way it looks now. And I think that I would be more likely to want pick up and play the "new" version. I was just curious about what a refinish job does to the value of an instrument like this.

[Dano Reible]

Don't get me wrong. I like the way it looks now. And I think that I would be more likely to want pick up and play the "new" version. I was just curious about what a refinish job does to the value of an instrument like this.

Mark;

I did not take you wrong what so ever and I did not intend come across agitated at all. Looking back I see that I may have come across more intence than intended. I just love talking about this stuff and I am in kind of a black hole of the mandolin world. You wouldn't think so in Central Illinois but I just havn't found the circles yet I guess.
So no harm no foul and please don'y misunderstand my long winded responces..

Thanks Oliver R, pigdawg and GPMH for the positive thoughts.

Now I just need to learn to play the thing well enough to do it justice.

[mandolooter]

looks great...book'em Dano!

[steve V. johnson]

Well done, that's great looking. Did the sound change at all with the finish change?

As alternatives for the tailpiece you could put on one of the new Breedlove black ones, they're cast but very light and the black would look great. I'm a fan of Allen cast tailpieces and those come in all sorts of colors.

And, new tuners, new frets and bridge and you have a whole new instrument! Sure that's overkill, since it it ain't broke... ;-) but it doesn't cost me anything to type it here... heeheee.

Very nice looking: Again, nice work, well done! Joyful mandolining.

stv

[Dano Reible]

Well done, that's great looking. Did the sound change at all with the finish change?

As alternatives for the tailpiece you could put on one of the new Breedlove black ones, they're cast but very light and the black would look great. I'm a fan of Allen cast tailpieces and those come in all sorts of colors.

And, new tuners, new frets and bridge and you have a whole new instrument! Sure that's overkill, since it it ain't broke... ;-) but it doesn't cost me anything to type it here... heeheee.

Very nice looking: Again, nice work, well done! Joyful mandolining.

stv

I just looked at the Breedlove site and you are right, that tailpiece would be perfect, flat black, basic clean style. I didn't see any pricing on the site but I will have to send them an email and check it out. I am a little nervous about changing it though as the sound may change. The strings accualy hook on the bottom on the mandolin and wrap over the top on the metal that wraps over the edge making the strings rest almost directly on the body of the mandolin. I wonder how the sound would change going to the Breedlove tailpiece?

I have thought of putting black knobs on my tuners but I bet I could get a high quality after market set with black tuners and sell the originals to someone who could really use an original set, heck someone may be in need and work out a trade. Who makes the best after market a style tuners that would not require any mods.

The bridge is perfect as are the frets so no need to go there.

The sound changed tons with that thick mess taken off. I feel as though there is more of a woody tone and more brightness with the new finish but sound is subjective isn't it. I mentioned in a past post that the high end was almost lacking and now it is just right. I didn't want a super bright bluegrass sound but a darker, bluesy tone and that's what I have. That is the only proplem I have with the thought of changing the tailpiece, but if it did change I could always change it back I guess. I realy don't mind it the way it is though.

Thanks again.

[guitharsis]

Nice 1923 Gibson A-Jr on Bernunzio's site: www.bernunzio.com

Looks to be all original. You can get a good look at the tailpiece.

[Fretbear]

I am a little nervous about changing it though as the sound may change. The strings actually hook on the bottom on the mandolin and wrap over the top on the metal that wraps over the edge making the strings rest almost directly on the body of the mandolin. I wonder how the sound would change going to the Breedlove tailpiece?

That is why I like (and use) that old tailpiece design. I don't know if it affects tone, but I like the tuning stability that it gives, rather than the pressure sensitivity of the trapese section of the traditional kind. Unless your wrist or arm touches that part of the instrument, which is what the cover is for, you might be better off just leaving it be.

[mandolooter]

Here's a black Price tailpiece on my Givens..tone change...not really to my ears but I like the ease of string change and especially the looks.