Changing Style of Holding Pick

[AndyEnglish]

As a self taught player, I have held my pick between my thumb and first two fingers of my right hand for 36 years. I found this great for slower pieces and for having a lot of control over the shape of the sound I wanted. I have been gradually called over to the bluegrass side of things recently and am enyoying some Texas fiddle tunes. However, my pick style will not cope and I am training myself to use the more regular thumb and first finger method. It is going well but is taking a lot of time. Has anyone else been through this pain? How long did it take to change successfully. I am playing about an hour a day.

One of the problems that I have found is that the angle of the pick just does not seem to address the string correctly and I find myself holding the mando at an awkward angle to overcome this. Any ideas? BTW I am using a golden gate.

Andy

[vkioulaphides]

[QUOTE]"One of the problems that I have found is that the angle of the pick just does not seem to address the string correctly..."

Hmm... puzzling. I would think the opposite, namely that holding the pick between three fingers (as you were before) would cause the pick to "swing" in between fingers, thereby striking the string in all kinds of awkward angles. The whole point of the "usual", i.e. thumb-and-index grip is that you get one, uniform angle. But maybe I am missing your point...

I would not adjust the way you are holding the entire instrument in order to correct the pick-to-string angle; that seems like overcompensation (and on the wrong end of things, too), like tilting the steering wheel instead of aligning the wheels themselves. I would start by practicing basic stroke exercises, until the pick strikes the string j-u-s-t right, just the way you want it to. Once the habit is ingrained, it will stay.

Best of luck!

Victor

(...who is a living anthology of bad habits, after decades of picking without proper training #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif )

[AndyEnglish]

The problem that I am having with the pick angle is that the pick is not quite parallel to the string and so only one edge comes in contact with the string, giving a poor sound. I suspect that it is my wrist position that is the problem. My way of holding may have changed but I suspect my wrist is still sitting the way it used to.

[vkioulaphides]

Yes, I think you are right on target: Before, when you could swing and tilt the pick between your fingers, you could also compensate for the wrist angle— the real cause of the problem, as you surmise. Now, with the pick fixed between two fingers, the problem you describe has come to the surface...

If you can take a remote-control digital photo of your usual posture and post it as an attached image here, perhaps someone (hopefully someone better qualified than yours truly) will be able to give you some concrete, definitive advice.

[evanreilly]

I spent a very long time playing in front of a mirror trying to get my right hand pick movement down. I studied how Monroe held the pick and is wrist movement & placement & then tried to get the same mechanics, practicing in front of a mirror & watching carefully.

[John S]

The mirror idea is a good one. You'll notice things you'll never notice just by looking down at your hand. My wife thinks it's kinda weird though. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[mandroid]

My early pointer was a pick on top of a tightly clenched index finger.
I was also recommended to keep the rest of the hand fistlike, analogy given was the spinning skater, arms in versus arms out and its effect on skaters rotational rate.
I tend to choke up on the pick , not leaving much exposed.
[FWIW an interesting harmonic can be created by striking the string with both the pick and indexfingernail]..
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[mandodebbie]

This is a very interesting discussion. # I have gotten into a habit of bracing my baby finger on the pick guard while I either chord or note play. #Although my Mel Bay book says it's OK to do this, boy does my hand get stiff. So, I have been resorting to more healthier methods while improvising various ways of holding my pick. If I hold it loosely, I can actually get a tremello - type note.(yes, I'm a newbee). Unfortunately, I often drop it on the floor. #If I clench it too tightly, I get a cramp again. I guess I have the advantage of not adopting bad habits so early. Then again, you CAN teach an old dog new tricks. #Don't be discouraged. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[AndyEnglish]

Thanks for the responses. I'm really caught in between two worlds at the moment. I can play lovely sensitive slower pieces with my old grip - but not the fast ones. With the new grip, I'm faster but with a poorer quality sound. I have slowed things right down and am trying to get a perfect sound before speeding up too much. Thanks for the encouragement mandodebbi - this old dog WILL learn the trick!

[August Watters]

Sounds like an argument for using different grips for different tunes. As a teacher I don't have a problem with this, as long as one grip is well-established before the other one becomes part of the technical repertoire.

Some folks will say it's wrong to spread yourself out with two different grips -- but then some will also say it's wrong to double on guitar or another instrument! I think it's fine, as long as you know what you want to do and how to avoid being sidetracked TOO far.

My own experience is that after years of using a bluegrass-style pick grip, with the pick spread across a wide platform of side of the index finger, I discovered the "pencil grip" shown in the Mel Bay method -- where the pick is held by just the tip of the index finger and secured by the thumb. It's much better for subtleties of dynamics and tone. The bluegrass grip gives more power, but since I already knew how to do that it wasn't a problem to also develop a more delicate grip for those time's it's more appropriate.

Hope this helps!

August W

[TheNaivePicker]

I Have EXACTLY The Same Problem, Andy.
I myself Need to learn to pick right, I know its a bad habbiit, but I myself have had trouble forever.I Cant bring myself to hold it like that, not holding it properly makes it akward, and Comfort is a Big Issue.
I Guess I need to practice more holding the pick right at an early age then to forget it forever, lol. I have been trying to play with the pick like that, but the grip doesnt feel right and the tone and its just the way it hits the strings from not holding it right, Just bugs the crud outa me!
So Ide better start tryin harder #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[batman]

ive always heard that what is comfortable and gets the job done is right for you. Wayne Benson uses the 3 finger hold and he seems to get by with it pretty good. just think how good he would be if he was doing it right. Don

[rixter]

I too have been doing a lot of right hand work this year, as I've been performing more technically demanding pieces publicly. YMMV, but it's been taking me some time (several months so far). As suggested above, I spent time (and still do) watching videos of Monroe and Frank Wakefield, just watching their hands and trying to emulate that. I learned from Compton that you should hold your pick "so loose that it feels like it's going to fall out of your hand" (for Monroe-style at least). Finally after a period of time I gave up the Golden Gates and Dawgs and have gone to a lighter pick and that has helped (it's OK Rick, you're not Grisman) without any real loss of volume. Still, whenever I get in the spotlight, the tendency is to return to that old, "secure" hand position (in this case posting). Sort of feel like it's going to be a lifelong struggle. Maybe I should join some kind of recovery group or something? "Hi, my name is Rick and I'm a postaholic". http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Good luck, hope you get there soon

[Martin Jonas]

Andy --

You might be interested in knowing that the "three finger" grip you describe is used by some pro players as well. Simon Mayor describes it as a possible alternative grip in his "Mastering The Mandolin" tutor and says that he often uses it because it allows him to control and adjust the stiffness of the plectrum (assuming you use a plectrum with some flexibility to start with) and therefore a more subtle control of dynamics. So, it's all horses-for-courses and there's no reason why you should use one grip for some tunes and another for others.

Martin

[AndyEnglish]

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Well I think things are finally starting to happen. I decided to treat myself to some new music - the Sam Bush Homespun book and CD - and I'm really getting used to the new grip. It really suits these fiddle tunes. After about a week, I'm starting to feel that it was worth persisting with this. I agree with saving the "three finger" grip for certain tunes. Anyone thinking about changing their grip after many many years - it CAN be done - its NEVER too late.

[sailaway]

Maybe trying the classic pick grip may help, especially with faster pieces like the Devil's Dream ( or nightmare, which I have been struggling with.) (1) look at the line created when your index finger bends between 1st and 2nd phalanges (joints). place the pick pointing away from your hand so the pick bisects this finger-line and hold it only between thumb and index finger.(2) look at thea rch of your bridge. match your wrist arch to this , and play the strings where your wrist natrually allows your pick to be . (3) DONT POST. (4) use a smaller classic style pick not the huge eagle wing 1.25 thick Dawgs, Claytons, etc. result: much greater control in fast passages, much less hand strain , not dropping the pick as muc h and better tremolo (thanks forthese tips to my instructor Charlie Rappaport, classical mando instructor extraordinaire, teaching out of Albion Pa. 40 miles west of Cleveland Ohio) http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif