View Full Version : Vintage F-4
Check out this F-4 on E-Bay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10179&item=3734334032&rd=1).
What a difference in price compared to this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10179&item=3733988396&rd=1).
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif
Jim Garber
Jul-08-2004, 7:14am
People use eBay as a testing ground to see what they can get. The first seller will prob relist it at a slightly lower price when it doesn't sell or else will get behind-the-scenes offers and it will disappear.
I am sure that some folks are emailing him/her as we speak.
Jim
Spruce
Jul-08-2004, 9:37am
10K is where they might be heading....
This ebay listing is probably just a few years ahead of it's time...
mandodon
Jul-08-2004, 9:58am
Amazing. Did the Cohen Brothers put out "Oh Brother, Why Didn't Big Mon Play an F4?"
More food for thought...one of the recent blue books suggests that the value for this model and year, in excellent condition, to be around $4,200 to $5,500.
evanreilly
Jul-09-2004, 8:08am
Monroe used an F-4 to record two instrumentals, Big Mon and Monroe's Hornpipe; that should drive up the prices on F-4s...<VBG>
So if Monroe used Crest toothpaste, would it cost $3,000 a tube?
8ch(pl)
Jul-09-2004, 2:35pm
Nah, only $2,000.
Ted Eschliman
Jul-09-2004, 3:47pm
<Grunting, straining, resisting temptation to post favorite toothless banjo player joke...>
evanreilly
Jul-09-2004, 3:51pm
Restraint is a rare & beautiful thing; besides, Bill Monroe never played the banjo!!
Scotti Adams
Jul-09-2004, 4:05pm
...I remember reading an article years ago where Gruhn stated at that time he would rather have a room full of F4's than a room full of Loars...now this was back on the early 80's....he thought that the F4 was going to be the one that skyrocketed in value.....I wonder if he still feels that way http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
evanreilly
Jul-10-2004, 6:15am
Going further back in time, I saw a pair of Gibson F mandolins in Locker's shop window in New York City sometime in the late 60s. The F-5 Loar was $800.00; the F-4 was $400.00. They haven't both appreciated at the same rate.
PS: I couldn't afford either; just flattened my nose on the glass...<G>
Jim Garber
Jul-10-2004, 6:48am
Evan:
I remember that little store near Lincoln Center. I had bought an American Conservatory bowlback at the House of Musical Traditions in the East Village (moved later to Maryland). I needed a case and Locker's was the only place that had one. My cousin got his classical guitar there.
I recall the shop was more vertical than horizontal and they had shelves way up. Maybe that is only in my memories. Interesting place, tho. I think they had some incredible stuff.
The other place of interest was the Bargain Spot down on lower Third Avenue. Looked like a std pawn shop but the owner knew what he had and kept the amazing stuff upstairs. Some friends actually bought some amazing instruments from him but at the top prices at the time.
Jim
fatt-dad
Jul-10-2004, 8:51pm
Dear f-4 fans,
Check out the beautiful Gibson f-4 at www.gruhn.com They have with original hard shell case for $6,000.00 (retail). Figure they are into it for about 60 to 65 percent of the retail (my guess - no inside information here). So, that is what the expert thinks.
f-d
You mean this one (http://www.gruhn.com/photo/MF6796.jpg)?
fatt-dad
Jul-11-2004, 4:20pm
Dear yoods,
I really did try to get the correct URL, but could not figure it out. Thanks.
Yeah, they kinda hide it.
fatt-dad
Jul-12-2004, 8:13pm
And it didn't last long. . . . .
b.pat
Jul-13-2004, 11:45am
Well, it's relisted. F 4 relist (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10179&item=3736215614&rd=1)
This time it's $7,000
Going down?? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
B.Pat
Thomas
Jul-13-2004, 11:55am
From a purely aesthetic viewpoint, I always thought the F-4 was the purtiest mandolin ever made.
Now, I want that banjo joke, Ted. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
fatt-dad
Jul-14-2004, 9:54am
Here is another f-4 on ebay. . . .
ebay f-4 auction (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=359&item=3736499138&rd=1)
f-d
fatt-dad
Jul-16-2004, 7:57pm
And yet another one on ebay. Interesting auction format and a somewhat older F-4 (type) Gibson. (This mandolin is a florentine, but has the white round label on the inside of the soundhole.
Here it is. . . . (http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2257509438&category=10179#)
fatt-dad
Jim Garber
Jul-16-2004, 8:26pm
That is a 1906 3-point F of some sort. I am not sure if those inlays are original. I have never seen those on a Gibson. On the other hand in the mandolin archive there are a number of F's of that era described as having fancy fingerboard inlays. Unfortunately there are no photos of these.
The label is the standard one picturing that wild lyre mandolin (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_image.pl?2264).
Here (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_image.pl?2750) is a close-up of the actual label on another early Gibson.
Jim
yoods
Jul-17-2004, 10:18am
I wonder what it sounds like.
mandogrouch
Jul-18-2004, 7:38am
Fatt-Dad,
That 3 pointer on ebay is an F2 I believe. I have an '06 Blackface, with none of the fret board inlay. Perhaps that was added later? The reason I was thinking it's an F2 is the absence of binding on the peghead and the inside of the scroll, can't tell much else by the photo. Mine has a different pickguard too, but I've been told that mine could be as old as '09 instead of the '06 which would explain the difference in pickguard. Seems like the earlier ones had that smaller pickguard, but I'm not sure.
mandogrouch
fatt-dad
Jul-18-2004, 7:45pm
I find these threads interesting here at the cafe. I do not have an f-4, but one was offerred to me in a trade for my a-3, about 20 years ago. I still have my a-3 and have no regrets. Having just bought a new house, my mas will have to wait, but one day. . . . . .
f-d
Mandolin Brothers (http://www.mandoweb.com/15_MandolinFam.htm) have a 1918 F-4 (http://www.mandoweb.com/88-1522.jpg) for $5195.00. They also have a number of F-2's (1906, 1914, 1927, 1930). Oh boy.
mandojimmy
Jul-23-2004, 5:10am
If anyone in the Uk has a mahogany F4 with inlaid tuners I'd like to buy it. Please contact me on 01670 734547 evenings. I don't think I'd buy unseen so it would have to be from the Uk. I would also be interested in an A4 with inlaid tuners. Either mando has to be free of cracks or structural defects.
Thanks
Jimmy powells
Dexter Johnson has a photo of my old F-4 on his web-site, this actually was owned by Dawggie recently. It went at the upper range of sale priceing.
John Flynn
Jul-23-2004, 6:22am
The all-time best sounding mandolins, to my ear and taste, are Bruce Ling's 1919 F-2 and Clyde Curley's F-4. They have this sweet, clear, "bell-like" sound, with thier own brand of "woody-ness." I really wish manufacturers today were trying as hard to make mid-priced mandolins with that sound as they are trying to make F-5s that sound like Monroe's. One sound is not necessarily better than the other, but choice is good!
Bob DeVellis
Jul-23-2004, 6:34am
I think the fact that old F-5s command such high prices is part of the reason so many new ones are being made. As prices for original F-4s creep up, the incentive to recreate them will, too. But then, of course, they won't be mid-priced anymore. This reality is perfectly fair from the luthier's prespective but obviously disappointing for a potential buyer.
fatt-dad
Jul-23-2004, 7:19am
I am pretty sure that Morgan Monroe has an F-4 clone in their lineup.
f-d
fatt-dad
Jul-24-2004, 7:52am
Check that, it is Michael Kelly that has the F-4 clone and there is one for sale on the Cafe Classifieds.
f-d
BBarton
Jul-24-2004, 8:27am
Hard to believe I sold my EXC+++ 1914 F4 five years ago for $3300 -- but then, we all have those experiences, don't we! Time to hang on to everything!!!
I believe that the new Eastman line offers a F-4 as well. Has anyone who is familar with the Gibson F-4's (2's) compared the sound and playability of the Gibson's to the Eastman's? How do they compare (besides the many years of aging) with the Gibsons.
Spruce
Jul-25-2004, 10:35am
"If anyone in the Uk has a mahogany F4 ..."
Do Gibson F4s with mahogany back and sides exist?
Another F-2 (http://www.themusicemporium.com/detail.asp?ItemID=MF5462) at The Music Emporium in the Boston area.
fatt-dad
Jul-26-2004, 4:38pm
Gruhn now has a F-4 and two F-2's. One F-2 is the 1905 three point.
Fatt-not that i'm buying-dad
BBarton
Jul-26-2004, 5:57pm
Price of $3,700 for an F-2 is way too much, IMHO, but if there's a market out there ...
fatt-dad
Jul-29-2004, 4:52pm
Here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10179&item=3739506503&rd=1) is today's ebay F-4.
f-d
mandogrouch
Jul-31-2004, 12:29pm
sounds fishy doesn't it?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3739311631
The guy lifted the verbage from vintagemandolin.com, I don't know where the photos came from.
FrankenMouse
Jul-31-2004, 12:57pm
I'll say it sounds fishy. My French is terrible, but "ATTENTION ON A USURPE MON IDENTITE POUR VENDRE UN OBJET QUI NE M'APPARTIENT PAS" doesn't sound good. Looks like a stolen identity??
Update: I had a French-speaking friend confirm my suspicions. This means "attention, one [someone] has usurped my identity to sell an object that does
not belong to me".
mandogrouch
Aug-01-2004, 6:36am
Thanks, FrankenMouse, for the translation. I though it pretty strange for alot of reasons. The loser actually replied to one of my "set up" questions. I think I'll play with him for a while before I notify ebay. It seems like if someone was going to run a scam, they'd pick something easier than a mandolin to "sell".
fatt-dad
Aug-01-2004, 8:56am
At my web page, there is a link to the spanish to english translator. Well, it also works for lots of other languages. So, I put in the french for english translation and here is what is says, "ATTENTION ONE A USURPS MY IDENTITE TO SELL An OBJECT WHICH DOES NOT BELONG To Me".
So, Frankenmouse was right on the mark (or his buddy), but I think that it is amazing that you can go to the world-wide web and have the translation in about one-half second also.
f-d
FrankenMouse
Aug-01-2004, 11:45am
mandogrouch,
By all means, string him along. Every minute you can occupy a scammer with writing fruitless emails, is a minute he's not free to search for new victims. Besides, it's great fun!
The claims these guys make are hilarious. Like the time I was offered a 1923 snakehead which was "brand new and still in its original packaging". And I've lost track of the times these scammers have answered "yes" when I asked whether their mandolin was the deluxe model with the ninth string...
It's not just mandolins they run scams on. At any given time, there are several fraudulent Martin guitar auctions running.
mandogrouch
Aug-01-2004, 2:54pm
I'm looking for ideas; he sent a photo of the inside label. It could have come from anywhere, it has the serial no. 22720 and it says F4, looks real, but where he got it I don't know. I looked in the archive, it's not there. I don't want to hit hit him with FrakenMouse's translation yet, or the fact that he got zero bids. Any ideas? I remember your 9th string bit FrankenMouse, that was a good one!
FrankenMouse
Aug-01-2004, 4:27pm
It sounds like this scammer is better prepared than most. How is his English?
For inspiration, follow this link and read how much fun someone had toying with a Martin guitar scammer:
http://p084.ezboard.com/ftheuno....8.topic (http://p084.ezboard.com/ftheunofficialmartinguitarforumfrm97.showMessage?t opicID=228.topic)
mandogrouch
Aug-01-2004, 6:40pm
Oh, he speaks pefect english alright. I'm having a really good time with this guy. I'll post it when I'm done with him. I think he's getting ready to confirm that his teens Gibson is signed by Charlie Darrington. Man, Charlie is really old!
FrankenMouse
Aug-01-2004, 7:51pm
Mr Derrington is not too old to put you over his knee for spelling his name wrong. Careful!
But seriously, that's hilarious! I look forward to reading the whole story...
Scam Busters. It's community service AND it's fun!
Jim Garber
Aug-01-2004, 9:32pm
The guy lifted the verbage from vintagemandolin.com, I don't know where the photos came from.
The photos came from here (http://www2.odn.ne.jp/~cdg45110/Gibson/gibsonf-4/gibsonf-4.htm), a web site in Japan.
Jim
FrankenMouse
Aug-02-2004, 8:55am
Here's another gorgeous F4 up for auction:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3739752502
Just so there's no confusion, this is NOT the same mandolin as used on the Tone Poems CD. It's just a bizarre coincidence that David Grisman was associated with two rare 1942 F4s.
mandopete
Aug-03-2004, 8:10am
It sounds like this scammer is better prepared than most. How is his English?
For inspiration, follow this link and read how much fun someone had toying with a Martin guitar scammer:
http://p084.ezboard.com/ftheuno....8.topic (http://p084.ezboard.com/ftheunofficialmartinguitarforumfrm97.showMessage?t opicID=228.topic)
"....candle light dinner with egg rolls and Tequilla as well."
Man - that is the funniest thing I have read in a month of Sundays!