I have a dream.

[tin ben dur]

Maybe someday Gibson will pull Danny back into the shop or hire a well known luthier to build some good mandolins like during CD's era. And then study Ronnie's Loar for a signature model. An exact replica. And then make it the same price as the other sig models and not the price of a new car like the Skagg's. Ronnie and Danny both approving a mandolin and signing them. Well, thats my dream.

[pjlama]

So I guess you don't approve of Dave Harvey? By all accounts he's turning out some good mandolins. I think if you're looking for a Ronnie replica Don MacRostie is a much better candidate for the job than OAI.

[mandolirius]

I can't wait the Dave Harvey-era Gibsons! I think they're going to be great. Anyone have one yet?

[jramsey]

I've got one, it's a baby, but it's a HOSS. Looking forward to its development over the next few decades. I think David is just what Gibson needs; a great luthier, and a world-class player, the ultimate combination of skills. Not that Charlie or Danny weren't/aren't great players and luthiers, but David has both beat on the chops end of things, in my opinion, and judging by my new mando, I think he really knows his business on the luthier end of things. I think Gibson is going to really start turning out some great mandos with David at the helm. Just like a baby mandolin, only time will tell....

Jordan Ramsey
myspace.com/crosspicker (http://www.myspace.com/crosspicker)
--------------
'07 Gibson Sam Bush

[tin ben dur]

So I guess you don't approve of Dave Harvey? By all accounts he's turning out some good mandolins. I think if you're looking for a Ronnie replica Don MacRostie is a much better candidate for the job than OAI.
Its not that I don't approve of anybody. I just don't know David or anyone else there. Maybe he is the one up to the task. Don builds awesome mandolins I am sure. Ronnie plays a Loar which is a Gibson so it would only be right to have a sig model made by Gibson. I am still learning how to play so maybe by the time I am up to par this will come full circle. Ronnis is an aweome picker. He is my favorite.

[Chris Biorkman]

David Harvey is an excellent picker and if you do a search for his name on YouTube, you can see it for yourself. He seems to be very knowledgeable and is a great asset to the company. I think they are in good hands.

[pjlama]

The reason I believe Don MacRostie would be the guy for the job even though he's not at Gibson is because he's using the exact graduations of famous Loars in his artist series. Despite Dave Harvey being awesome for OAI they're not going to match Loar graduations like Don, none of their artist models have done so in the past. With all that said Ronnie has a big right hand and plays heavier strings so he gets a tradition sound on steriods. I'd get me some J75s and work on my right hand. Surprisingly most of the Gibson line has a nice traditional voice that'll approximate "THE SOUND", it just gets more complex as you spend more. A good A5 or F5G, F5L, etc. with J75's and your right hand pulling hard you'll be just like Ronnie.

[stoney]

My new Harvey signed F5L just arrived, and while the cosmetics/finish are not up to my Collings MF5V Deluxe level (nor did I expect them to be), the sound and playability are superb; and when all is said and done, that's the most important thing (to me anyhow). It has "the" sound--woody/hollow-log echo; that sound you can get the haunting and nasty tones out of.

[Kevin K]

PJ,
What wouldn't you think Dave Harvey and company would not have exact graduations for Loars? I know he's worked on many, many Loars as he was the one person who let me play one years ago.

[BrazosMike]

I have two gibsons, a Sam Bush (2004, Roberts era) and a F5 Victorian (#6). I'm extreemly happy with both of them.

I had an opportunity recently to meet David Harvey and get a tour of the mando shop in Nashville. I was very impressed with both David and the luthiers in the mando shop. David is obviously very knowledgable on both the playing and construction side of the mandolin. I had a chance to look at some of his repair work and some of the new mandolins coming out and they are very impressive. Just talking to the luthiers in the shop (realy surprised that the mandolin group is that small)gave me the impression that this was much more than just a job to them.

It was very evident that Gibson's history - and future - are very important to David and his folks and I look forward to what is yet to come..

[frankenstein]

Yeah they are top notch people but they are overpriced
yup !!

[minnedolin]

Thats a nice dream. I usually dream about mountain lions and politicians..Maybe I should lay off the leftover hot wings before going to bed? Brrrrr. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif In all seriousness though, I think Gibsons are amazing mandolins and their tone is hard to come by but its just that they are so dang expensive I'd rather buy a *LaPlant F-style mando and then with the leftover scrilla vacation in Sao Paulo.


*Laplant, Lloyd. excellent Minnesota luthier http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[chip]

I had a dream that every mandolin player eventually acquired the mandolin that they always wanted and was actually finally satisfied. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Brian T]

My Gibson Alan Bibey is Dave Harvey signed. It's a hoss of a mandolin and I play it hard. Gibson mandolins are what they are today because Charlie started building to Loar specs during his tenure. I think his MM is going to be the closest to a Loar. Time will tell.

[Timbofood]

With so many fine builders out there, how much do people really need the "Name" and a signature? I can think of more small builders that are trying to scratch out a living while the "big boys" are, while making decent instruments, making lots of money on "less than signature" models. I guess what I am saying really is the name is not as important as the sound and playability. I understand CD was quite the guy but, the one example I played left me cold, could've been the slacker relative in the bunch I suppose. I am NOT trying to start an argument but I just don't need "that name" to make me happy.

[pjlama]

PJ,
What wouldn't you think Dave Harvey and company would not have exact graduations for Loars? #I know he's worked on many, many Loars as he was the one person who let me play one years ago.
I'm only assuming this because Gibson has never done this with an artist model. I'm sure Dave could do this but I don't believe his bosses wouldn't approve a project like it. I certainly could be wrong but I'm just basing my thoughts on what OAI has done in the past. Did they use exact graduations for the Bush model? Hmmm... It's just on the Lawson, Steffy, Benson they made new mandolins. I guess the more I write this I realize it would be easy enough for them to do so maybe they will. I certainly don't question they're ability to do so just the willingness. If they did a Ronnie it would be expensive though because it would basically have to be a Master Model with special graduations.

[woodwizard]

oldegrass quote: I think that gibsons are way over priced and if they dont lower prices they will have a hard time competing with sumi and weber and stanley and al the other luthiers including ratliff ratcliff poe etc.......
*****
I disagree with all of this. I believe that Gibson today is still building very fine top notch mandolins and their top of the line mando's can stand up with or mostly above to any other real factory producing mando's and Gibson's new best are pretty close to the top builders that only build a few a year compared to Gibson's many as a factory. Who else builds as many and keeps the quality pretty much there. So I think they are priced accordingly. This is only MHO There's an old saying: You get what you pay for. I think that's atleast 90% correct.

[frankenstein]

nobody is saying Gibson doesn't build fine instruments.. we are saying they are too expensive.. i believe Gibson made it's name originally by being accessable to most people.. now i don't think this is the case.. the dealer who sold me my j-200 for top dollar now is trying to low-ball me on a trade in.. so they don't hold their price.. that's why they are too expensive..

[GRW3]

It often sounds like Gibson is a 'cult of personality', if you get your mandolin built by the right guy it's great and if you don't well... Of course you pay the same either way. The good mando's go to the right people and the other's are just 'boob bait for the bubbas' to borrow a political phrase.

I ran into at least one of the latter recently, an F5G as I recall. I then played a Goldrush that was OK but certainly not worth the $2K more than the better looking, better sounding Weber Yellowstone available locally. Not even in the ball park with the similarly priced two point Altman I played up in Austin.

Of course these guys are probably choked by Gibson's marketing methods. The kind of place that wants to sell and has the clientele to buy high dollar mandos doesn't want to buy $200 retail plywood Epiphones with plastic shrink wrap pictures of guitars on them. With this policy it's hard to get any volume and that keeps the prices higher.

I haven't played a new Gibson that I would spend Eastman money on but I believe everybody when they say good ones are out there. It's a shame...

[Mike Snyder]

You like your Eastman, I like my F5G. What's wrong with that? My buddy likes his Yellowstone. Another likes his Weber Fern. All good mandos. Less animosity, more fellowship and good music.

[Timbofood]

Here, Here, M!
To Quote from the movie "Paper Moon"
"You go to your Church, and, I'll go to mine"
Play nice, everybody gets a turn.

[f5loar]

First problem with using the same grads as a Loar is which Loar? They all sound different even using those original grads. Next DH can get the job done just fine and hey he knew CD. But Ronnie? Think of all the others they have missed that put their careers with Gibsons before Ronnie was born. I'd start with those guys first. Where is that Dave Apollon model? He gave his life the F5 from the beginning to the day he died in 1973. A Jethro red A5 with F5 neck? Works for me! Donna Stoneman gave her whole life to promoting bluegrass mandolin with a '53 Gibson F5 and gets no mention today. What about a Jesse 50's model? A Bobby early Fern model? A Frank baked in red model? And don't overlook the Dawg. He cut his teeth on the old Ferns. If Gibson is going to continue the signature line they have alot of catching up to do first.

[tin ben dur]

lots of good reply's. but i will stand behind my dream. i think i might have found me a nice f5l. charlie d also.

[Bernie Daniel]

This is one of those "evergreen" topics on this Cafe -- because in the end most of us are just a bit fanatical about mandolins - - and that might be an understatement.

But my opinion is that Danny Roberts, Dave Harvey and Don McRostie are three top drawer luthiers. #All build mandolins that are Loar specd and are to die for.

I do not know about Don but but Danny and Dave are first class pickers too. #Dave and Danny are direct descendents of the god-father of the Gibson revival, Charlie Derrington. So much in the mandolin world is owed that man.


Brian T: I think his MM is going to be the closest to a Loar. #Time will tell.

Yes I think this is right on the mark -- I also think that the MM/DMM Gibsons built under Darrington will someday occupy a place on the top shelf of the Gibson mandolin world just like the Loars. #

That said there absolutely nothing much wrong with the Danny Roberts signed Gibsons. #And you have heard others in the string talk about the new Harvey ear Gibson mandolins --the Gibson mandolin tradition is still in good hands without a doubt.

I have an 2002 F-5 Fern (Roberts signed) that I am sure would hold its own with any good or great mandolin...I love to have been able to go to the Monroe camp this year and directly campare it with the top end mandos that will be there -- I have no doubt that it would open eyes -- every person who has ever play it has been amazed - and it is not built as to the master model specs.


stoney: It has "the" sound--woody/hollow-log echo; #that sound you can get the haunting and nasty tones out of.


exactly! finally someone found the right combination of words to describe what we want (I want at least!).


pjlama: Surprisingly most of the Gibson line has a nice traditional voice that'll approximate "THE SOUND", it just gets more complex as you spend more.

again, well said!

Some are put off but the price of a Gibson but I will suggest here that the Gibson MM/DMM and even the next series down (Signature models, F-5L and F-5G) will compare well with private luthier models running costing $10K to even $15K more. #

So add in the "tradition" and the "sense of history" and I will suggest that Gibson mandolins even the MM's and DMM's are at least reasonable in cost -- in the bigger scheme of things.

Now there was a very dangerous statment made on this thread too -- I worry about this -- I do not suggest censorship but counseling is in order:


chip: I had a dream that every mandolin player eventually acquired the mandolin that they always wanted and was actually finally satisfied.

Something like that could eliminate MAS forever! #Is that something we want in our lifetimes?