Thoughts on an om flatwound set

[Ted Eschliman]

It's been slow to come around but the JD13 (http://jazzmando.com/jd13_flatwound_mandola_strings.shtml) "Jazzdola" flatwound sets are really gaining popularity. Still the question comes up, "Ted, can you make these work for Octave Mandolin?" The answer is sadly "no," because of the silk winding interrupting the playing area of any instrument longer than a 17" scale. But I have not given up on the idea, only recently, have enlisted the resources of a major string manufacturer (not at liberty to divulge yet) to build a set for this grossly under-served market.

What I'm proposing is a set that can work with both Mandola and Octave mandolin. If you look at the specs of the strings GHS and D'addario offer, interestingly the gauging is close, and some of the Mandola are actually heavier than OM. My own experimentation tells me this will work. This is the gauging I will be prototyping: 13, 24, 35, 45. Understand, no matter what we do, composite gauging will be a compromise. There will be some who will want a stouter G, a wound A, etc. We'll be trying to please as many people as we can but not all will be satistifed. And these are flatwound, not everybody's cup of tea, especially if your playing relies on zinging open-string drones. These are meant for classical, cerebral folk, and jazz.

Keep in mind, it's apples and oranges comparing flatwound with the existing roundwound. As with the TIs, the thinner gauge packs as much tension, so you get the feel of less mass, the smoothness, and somewhat more string fundamental. Less brilliance, however.

I'm also insisting on dropping the silk winding to make these more versatile, and ultimately, about half the price.

Thoughts?

[groveland]

Wonder what a longer set of those would sound like on the 25.5" cittern... I don't suppose you've tried that, have you? I'll have to assemble a set of .010, .017, .030fw, .040fw, .052fw, as I expect they'll do well with a Kent Armstrong pickup.

[foldedpath]

Understand, no matter what we do, composite gauging will be a compromise. There will be some who will want a stouter G, a wound A, etc.
Does that mean you're planning on plain steel A's? I think the D'Addario and GHS octave mando sets both use wound A's, don't they? I'm wondering if most octave players might want that. Of course that impacts the price, I know.

Also... ball or loop end? What's the convention on octave mando's, or is there one? If I ever order a custom octave and I have a choice, I think I'd be asking for a ball-end tailpiece to maximize the string choice options, since most longer strings aren't looped. And you can pop the ball out to get a loop if you need it, while you can't easily go the other way.

[allenhopkins]

These are meant for classical, cerebral folk, and jazz.

Thoughts?
Sorry, I play mindless folk...

[Steve L]

i think you'd be going after a very small piece of a very small pie. There aren't many octave/zouk players out there and I think most of us want that ringy, open sound. Everyone i know that plays these things wants to sound like the Irish/Scottish players and use capos in the upper positions. I wouldn't see the advantage of a flatwound set though I might try one out of curiosity.

[steve V. johnson]

Most interesting, Ted!

Your proposed gauges are pretty close to what I use already. I have no idea how well I might like the sound of them
on my 25.4" Crump zouk, but I'd be intrigued to try them. But it seems that you're thinking of a shorter maximum
length. That's ok, I know that 25.4" is pretty long.

I'd add a vote for wound A's.

Thanks for your innovations!

stv

[Bill Van Liere]

Hi Ted

Another vote for a wound A here, but I am in the same camp as Allen and Steve.

Sounds interesting Ted, at a minimum I would like to try a set for recording.

[mikeyes]

I'd like to try a set too, and I am not even sure which instrument (OM, Tenor Banjo, Cello Banjo) I'd use them on. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Sounds very interesting!

[John Hill]

I'd give them a try on my Garrison short scale octave.

[otterly2k]

Count me in! I've been hoping for a flatwound set for my B.Dean OM (short scale) for quite a while!

I'd be happy to road test, Ted!!!

I echo the vote for wound A's . I prefer heftier e's, but if those will be plain steel anyway, I can always swap those out. The other gauges are in the right ballpark for me.

And while I understand the ball=end argument, I'd prefer loops, since it's easier to get other ball-ends and the range of loop choices is slimmer...

my 2c
KE

[Danny Packer]

I'd try a set too, and like others, I'd prefer wound A's.

Danny

[Michael Lewis]

Ted, I'm trying to educate folks toward ball end strings for octave mandos, so they can easily find replacement strings when they need them. There are SO many guitar strings out on the market of wide ranging styles , materials, sizes, etc. The octaves I make usually have tail pieces that use ball end strings for this reason.

[Danny Packer]

As for me, its ball ends or bust, since that is what my OM takes.

danny

[oldwave maker]

Ted- in an ongoing effort to create more business for stringmakers, I like your JM13 flatwound or daddario j72 roundwound for my 16" and 17" scale engelmann topped mandolas, I suspect those honkin 52's and 56's on the c string are for the shorter gibson mandola scale, trying to move a red spruce top. For my 21.5" scale octave I buy ball end d'ad or ghs singles from fqms: 47-34-23-13, first 3 pairs roundwound phosphor bronze, but let me know when you have some Labellas available, even if they're loopend, the fastidious floor of my shop has enough brass ball-end balls to retrofit an octave army!

[Ted Eschliman]

I sure appreciate everyone's input on this project. One point of clarification, we are aiming at a Dola set first, but a combination that could potentially double as an OM at the same time. Since the ball-ends are already available from this company in guitar singles, my quest is to accomodate the instruments that require loop ends. If we were to package ball-end, this would be long into the future.

[JEStanek]

As the happy owner of a Trinity College OM (a great starter OM recommended often) I would be happy to try a set on mine. It (according to the website) has a 20 3/4" scale length. Length from highest tuner to tailpiece is 31 inches. Loop ends

Jamie