Weber spruce vs weber cedar [Archive]

Susan H.

Aug-18-2008, 8:36pm

I'm thinking of getting a new Weber, but I can't decide on the spruce top or cedar. (From The Mandolin Store) I don't have a good enough ear to tell much difference between the two. Help me out here. I love the color of the cedar, but the spruce is cheaper (about $250) and is natural in color. Can some of you give this poor girl some much needed feed back? Thanks, Susan

Eric F.

Aug-18-2008, 9:25pm

The conventional wisdom is that cedar will be more open and warm right away while spruce will change more over time. Different varieties of spruce will sound different and develop differently, too. Lots of people rave about the cedar-topped Webers; I've never played one. My Fern oval has a sitka spruce top and it is one of the best-sounding instruments I have ever played. I wouldn't get too hung up on the question - just get the one you like best and enjoy it.

Spruce

Aug-18-2008, 11:20pm

"...but the spruce is cheaper (about $250)"

Interesting...
I wonder why??

I'd still go with the cedar.
The ones I've played have been some of the finest mandolins out there...

man dough nollij

Aug-19-2008, 1:06am

Weber's own site (http://soundtoearth.com/prices_options.htm) lists cedar as a $125 upgrade. Should be less than that at the actual price. Is there some other upgrade associated with the cedar one?

I've heard a lot of good things about the cedar-topped Webers, but I haven't played one either. Have you had the guys play them for you A/B over the phone?

As a phone company guy, I know there is about zero fidelity in playing an instrument over the phone, but I believe you should be able to get an idea of how "poppy" and percussive it sounds.

The best would be to go play 'em back to back, of course. Wickenburg is a little out of the way for most folks, though. I used to work there. Yep.

Edit: D'Oh! I forgot they post sound clips. Never mind the bit about playing 'em over the phone. I've just listened to their MP3s, and the cedar ones sound pretty amazing. I'd go for it.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

Ivan Kelsall

Aug-19-2008, 2:41am

I'm pretty sure that Kevin Briggs (aka The Briggadier on here) has a Red Cedar topped Weber Fern. Kevin's pretty much in touch with Weber instruments,so you could try sending him a personal e-mail. Kevin's a nice guy & i'm sure that he'd advise you in a truly informative way. The other thing is to e-mail Weber to ask them re.what the tonal properties of the respective woods will be like in the future ie. How the different woods will 'open up'.
My Weber Fern has a standard Sitka spruce top & it's amazing. If Red Cedar is 'better' then it should be awesome !!!,
Saska

Rob Powell

Aug-19-2008, 4:46am

"...but the spruce is cheaper (about $250)"

Interesting...
I wonder why??

I'd still go with the cedar.
The ones I've played have been some of the finest mandolins out there...
Could be the grade of cedar vs the grade of spruce?

The Big Sky's are standard with cedar tops. I've heard that they have some old cedar so maybe Dennis had them use some of that stock.

Susan, why not call Dennis and ask him why the cedar is more and anything else he can tell you about the 2 instruments you are considering?

You could also call Weber and ask them about these as Dennis has them custom made for The Mandolin Store.

My limited experience playing a Big Sky was that it had a bit more volume and projection than most of the Spruce topped mandos. The "Old Wood" spruce topped instruments were louder and projected more than the Big Sky.

I've heard a few other cedar topped mandos and they were indeed more "open" to start but I haven't heard the same ones at a later date.

I listened to the clips and I think they all sound good.

Gutbucket

Aug-19-2008, 5:55am

I play a Weber Custom Cedar Yellowstone, and this mandolin sounded "played in" from day one. It really has a dry woody tone and has a great bark. Try one out and see what you think.

Dave Cowles

Aug-19-2008, 6:44am

My Gallatin ('05) has sounded like it was 70 years old since it came from Montana. Cedar seems to have a depth to it that takes a long playing-in time for various species of spruce to achieve, IMO.

Dave

sgarrity

Aug-19-2008, 6:49am

I was never much of a Weber fan until I played some of their cedar topped models. Those are definitely serious mandolins.

Capt. E

Aug-19-2008, 8:26am

My Weber "Bighorn" has a spruce top with the most unusual grain I have ever seen, very tight almost burl like (see photo), and it is very loud. I am not sure what species of spruce Weber used, but if a cedar top is "better", it must be good indeed.

Chris Biorkman

Aug-19-2008, 8:28am

Kevin's Weber is has an adi top.

Susan H.

Aug-19-2008, 8:42am

I think I'm going to go with the cedar top. It has a matte finish as opposed to the gloss finish. Whether that makes a difference I'm not sure. I couldn't tell much from the sound bites on the website. That may be just a matter of preference on my part. It does sound MUCH better than my Eastman (which I will be keeping). I thank you all for your input, it really helped. Susan

Spruce

Aug-19-2008, 9:56am

"Weber's own site lists cedar as a $125 upgrade. Should be less than that at the actual price."

"Could be the grade of cedar vs the grade of spruce?"

In full disclosure, I cut and mill the cedar for Weber...
I'm wondering if there's some jockeying around with their procedures working with the wood, thus the upgrade...?
Rick?

Whatever.
The bottom line is that the cedar mandolins I've played made by Weber are special, and my feelings are not based on my involvement with the wood.

I played a cedar Yellowstone at Winfield last year that was in my top-5 list of F5-style mandolins that I've ever played, and that's saying something...
A friend of mine bought it, and she absolutely loves it....

If you're ordering a Yellowstone, you might reference that instrument ("the one Bruce liked at Winfield '07"), and I'll bet they could build you one...
They have lots of tops from the same tree, and probably the specs...

It was a fine instrument with the most incredible and complex low end I've ever heard on an F5....
Woof city....

johnM

Aug-19-2008, 10:15am

I had a custom yellowstone with a cedar top for a while and never got used to the sound of the cedar top. I could really tell a difference.

It wasn't bad by any means, it was just me.

jm

David Horovitz

Aug-19-2008, 11:12am

Here I am playing my Yellowstone that has a spruce top. Sorry I don't have a cedar-topped handy to do the comparison. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Weber Yellowstone video clip - spruce top (http://gallery.me.com/dhorovitz#100028)

Susan H.

Aug-19-2008, 11:47am

Here is the link to the Mandolin Store with the ones I am considering. http://www.themandolinstore.com/scripts/prodList.asp?brand=3 The Special Editions may have been made specifically for Dennis. I really like the color on the cedar (with the matte finish). However, both are beautiful instruments. This has to be the last mando I buy, yeah right...for a long, long time.

Sean Greer

Aug-19-2008, 12:26pm

I think you've got two nice instruments to choose from. I listened to the sound clips and the spruce top sounds just a bit more pleasing to my ear. Little bit deeper "woof" - great for bluegrass. My only hangup is the blond color - not my favorite without the tortoise binding.

Capt. E

Aug-19-2008, 12:36pm

It's so hard to pick one, even when you can play them in person. I like the mp3's of all of them. You can know they are good instruments that you will enjoy for a long time.

Rick Schmidlin

Aug-19-2008, 12:39pm

I used to have a Cedar Yellowstone, it was at that time I changed because I did like like the neck, I loved the tone. I would love to have another Weber Cedar someday.

Chris Biorkman

Aug-19-2008, 12:57pm

I used to have a Cedar Yellowstone, it was at the time that made me change, not the tone. I would love to have another Weber Cedar someday.
Huh? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Albert Whiting

Aug-19-2008, 1:24pm

LOL! *falls over*
Must be a banjo player!

spenser

Aug-19-2008, 8:16pm

I am lucky enough to have purchase one of Dennis's special edition cedar Webers and you will not be disappointed. I am still adjusting some to it as it is my first F-style but that thing is very woody, very loud and an excellent mandolin. I was a little nervous about the matte finish but it looks great. As everyone knows, Dennis is also a great guy to deal with and has yet to steer me wrong, just wish that he would stop carrying so many good mandolins that I KNOW that I need to buy!

jasona

Aug-19-2008, 8:32pm

"...but the spruce is cheaper (about $250)"

Interesting...
I wonder why??
Their cedar supplier is gouging them perhaps? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

mandobluegrasser

Aug-19-2008, 10:08pm

I've played them both. #You can't go wrong either way. The spruce will open up into a bigger deeper tone over a couple of years of playing. #The Cedar is really lively already. Either one will serve you well for many years. Go with your heart. (And your hands if one plays more comfortably than the other). As far as price, I don't recall with certainty, but my guess from buying there several times and watching Webers come and go (I've owned a couple) is simply that the cedars sell faster because they are livelier from the get go. Bill Sheldon (mandobluegrasser@hotmail.com)

Capt. E

Aug-20-2008, 8:22am

Wrote Weber and they say my Bighorn has a Sitka spruce top.

pickloser

Aug-20-2008, 8:26am

I love my cedar topped Ratcliff. But make sure you're at least okay with the aroma of cedar, because you will notice it more than you would think, and it lasts a long time.

Congratulations on your imminent purchase! (I'm glad you're keeping that Eastman. It's a good'n.)

F5GRun

Aug-20-2008, 8:43am

Was the cedar topped Weber satin finish? 250$ more may be for the gloss finished. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Rick Banuelos

Aug-20-2008, 9:35am

The Mandolin Store

Aug-20-2008, 9:39pm

The color is $150 and the cedar $125. We use a rounding system when we set our retail price on these exclusive models. So, that changes things a bit also. So, that's why the $250 difference in price between a natural spruce and a cedar with color. I think these are the BEST value on the market!

Nick Triesch

Aug-20-2008, 10:34pm

I know the cedar top Webers sound good but I really love the tight grain very pretty sitka top on my mandolin. And after 5 years of playing it I think it sounds about the same as the new cedar tops. Cedar just looks flat and plain to me. How come most of the other makers do not use much cedar on their tops? I think it is because the spruce looks so darn good when finished. Does the custom elite use cedar....I don't think so. I may be wrong. Nick

mandolirius

Aug-20-2008, 10:56pm

<Quote (Tone Monster @ Aug. 19 2008, 14:39)
<I used to have a Cedar Yellowstone, it was at the time that made me change, not the tone. I would love to have another Weber Cedar someday.

Huh? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif>

That's what I said too. "It was at the time that made me change"? What could this possibly mean?

oldtimestrings

Aug-21-2008, 7:10am

My experience in comparing these topwoods comes more from classical guitars than mandolins. With that admission, I feel that cedar is better (warmer, fuller, rounder, more responsive) for the first few years of an instrument's life, but that spruce will eventually surpass it in just about every category. Spruce also projects better, and has more clarity and note separation. I've always thought that cedar gives more satisfaction to the player (immediate vicinity), but spruce gives more satisfaction to the audience. And I do agree with the previous poster that spruce is a whole lot prettier, too.

red7flag

Aug-21-2008, 8:25am

Wonder if somebody with one of each could do an AB of each and post it? Then realized that if the mando was a different model, the difference might well be other factors. Has anyone ABed the same model cedar vs spruce. In response to Oldtimes comments. I was playing a Weber Vintage A and a Collings MF5 in a duet for some friends in Boston. I thought the Vintage sounded better, but the audience said that the Collings sounded better. While, in this case, the difference is probably Oval vs F hole. I think it is the same type of dynamic. I was surprised.
Tony

Rick Banuelos

Aug-21-2008, 8:34am

I know the cedar top Webers sound good but I really love the tight grain very pretty sitka top on my mandolin. #And after 5 years of playing it I think it sounds about the same as the new cedar tops. # #Cedar just looks flat and plain to me. #How come most of the other makers do not use much cedar on their tops? #I think it is because the spruce looks so darn good when finished. # Does the custom elite use cedar....I don't think so. # I may be wrong. # # Nick
The Elites have been built with darned near everything, including cedar.

Susan H.

Aug-21-2008, 10:49am

My Weber Special Edition-Cedar is on order. I should have it early next week from the Mandolin Store! I'm excited about getting it, but not about putting out the dollars right now. There goes my birthday and Christmas! Oh well, with something like this coming you DON'T need anything else. I'll send a pictures when I get it. Thank you all for your advice, much appreciated. Susan

Sean Greer

Aug-21-2008, 11:02am

My Weber Special Edition-Cedar is on order. #I should have it early next week from the Mandolin Store! #I'm excited about getting it, but not about putting out the dollars right now. #There goes my birthday and Christmas! #Oh well, with something like this coming you DON'T need anything else. #I'll send a pictures when I get it. #Thank you all for your advice, much appreciated. #Susan
Congratulations, Susan! Please post some more pics in the Post a Pic section (after you get finished playing the potatoes out it for a few hours)!

Capt. E

Aug-21-2008, 11:03am

I had a long conversation yesterday with John Allison who makes custom guitars (used to work for Collings). The topic of spruce vs cedar came up and he showed me a new cedar top guitar he is making that is still unfinished. He seemed to stroke it and smile, saying this one is going to be very good. He talked about all the different woods used and how each have their properties. Cedar is very strong along the grain, but weak across it, so you have to be careful with how the bracing in done. This different grain structure is probably the reason cedar has a different sound and doesn't require "aging" that spruce does.
He also explained how the sitka spruce used on my Weber was quarter-cut, and the countour of the top carving creates this very tight grain in the center that straightens and widens as the curve goes out towards the sides. I also find that very pretty. I prefer the look of it to cedar.

bassthumper

Aug-21-2008, 11:12am

susan congrats on your special edition cedar i love mine it's got it's own distinct warm old sound right off the ups truck enjoy

Kevin Briggs

Aug-21-2008, 2:20pm

Susan:

Congratulations on your purchase. I also purchased my Weber from Dennis and it was a classy deal the whole way. He's da' man, and his son-in law Brian is pretty okay too, in the words of Mr. Miagi.

I have a custom Fern and it has a red spruce (adi) top, as mentioned by biorkman and saska. I chose that top because I had a custom Bitteroot with an adi top and it was a monster. The Fern is also monstrous, but there some innate beauty and depth to these new Webers that is just fantastic.

I played a Big Sky A model for a while last Summer and Fall, and it had a cedar top. My impression of the cedar top was that it reqiured a lighter touch. It would respond very well and sound great when I would ease up a bit and not dig in so hard. In contrast, the red spruce Webers can handle all you can give. They never max out in volume. The cedar seemed to muffle a bit when I would strong arm my chops.

I have about 70 videos documenting my experience with ny Webers.

Here's the Big Sky A (cedar top) video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK7KWKJA2IU

Here's a Fern (red spruce/adirondack top)video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY9nK7QFr7I

To me, the sound is pretty true, to use a Monroism. The cedar sounds lighter and drier, with some good bass rattle. The red spruce sounds sweeter and definitely more powerful.