Thile's loar [Archive] - Mandolin Cafe Forum

John Hill

Aug-12-2008, 5:08pm

Saw Punch Brothers last Friday in Louisville and Thile was playing the Dude...broken headstock and all (thought he had that repaired).

Anyone know or hear rumors of the Loar getting worked on or maybe even having the fretboard replaced as he was thinking about doing, mentioned in the Fretboard Journal Dawg interview?

As for the concert it was very impressive. Those cats can play, frighteningly talented. But the venue was odd: the basement at St. Francis Assisi church, with a small stage at one end and the people sat at unfolded picnic tables with some standing along the walls. It was like being at a school talent show. Weird to see them in such a small space.

Chris Biorkman

Aug-12-2008, 5:25pm

I saw them a few months back at a small venue in Santa Barbara. They definitely aren't playing to the packed houses that he did before Nickel Creek split up.

Austin Koerner

Aug-12-2008, 5:37pm

I saw them earlier this year, he was playing with Dude #5. The headstock was fixed, I guess he broke it off again.

Does he even have Dude #14 anymore?

Philphool

Aug-12-2008, 7:42pm

I saw them earlier this year, he was playing with Dude #5. The headstock was fixed, I guess he broke it off again.
=====================================

It was broken off when I saw him in late March in Charlotte, NC.

mandroid

Aug-12-2008, 7:50pm

Performance Fees and Record sales royalties got that thing paid off yet?

How far out can you take a depreciation allowance?

and does the depreciation ^spike^ when you, Oops!, knock that dollop off the headstock?

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

woodwizard

Aug-12-2008, 7:51pm

I've got tickets for a Nov. 22nd show. I was hoping to check out his Loar. If not ... guess the Dude will have to do. I don't think I will be too disapointed.

morristownmando

Aug-12-2008, 8:10pm

His loars awesome but he is not worthy of it.

John Hill

Aug-12-2008, 8:39pm

His loars awesome but he is not worthy of it.

...mmm hmm...

http://www.kaitaia.com/funny/pictures/ThreadHijack/thread_direction.gif

morristownmando

Aug-12-2008, 8:47pm

Just my believe sorry.

Chris Biorkman

Aug-12-2008, 8:48pm

His loars awesome but he is not worthy of it.
You can't be serious.

morristownmando

Aug-12-2008, 8:49pm

His loars awesome but he is not worthy of it.
You can't be serious.
Bill would roll over in his grave if he knew thile played the style he plays on a loar

Chris Biorkman

Aug-12-2008, 8:50pm

Thats a pretty flameworthy statement.

morristownmando

Aug-12-2008, 8:51pm

<Comment removed. Violates board posting guidelines>.

F5GRun

Aug-12-2008, 9:18pm

AS for his Loar and the original post...I heard(strictly rumor) that he sent it down-under to Gilchrist to have it worked on, being it sat in its case for a long long while. I believe that Steve would take his time with it(probably take it apart). Again, maybe rumor? Also if he is prone to breaking the headstock scroll off on the road I would think he may "keep that one in the case" for the time being, possibly until he is comfortable playing a 200K+ combination of spruce/maple on stage.

As for Thiles Worthiness of a Loar and the "Bill rolling over in his grave" statement…
First off you need to remember that Loars were not made to play bluegrass, because there was no such thing when they were made. If its a style issue you have, and think that Loars are only ment for bluegrass than I guess Lloyd Loar shouldn’t have even played one, and "not worthy". Second, what are your qualifications to own a Loar? If its a question of talent I think Thile has that covered. He may not be your favorite, but there is no getting around that fact that he can play with the best of them, and he has his completely own style, which not many players can say. He has departed from the bluegrass genre and the sometimes constricting boundaries of it, and is playing a blend music that no one else plays. And if he wants to use the best mandolin he can get his hands on I am all for it. I hope he enjoys it and I can’t wait for him to play the heck out of it.

Scott Tichenor

Aug-12-2008, 9:33pm

Bit of trolling in this thread. I'll not tolerate it. There are people that want to have legitimate discussions here. If that doesn't meet your entertainment needs, strongly suggest you leave this forum and find somewhere else to play.

Joel Spaulding

Aug-12-2008, 9:36pm

Hmmm. Here we go?
I'm not even a big fan - but one who appreciates talent - young or old.

Anyone who can afford a Loar deserves one. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

But if some people find this notion disturbing.... CT has been playing Mando for at least 21 years.
21 years x 360 days/year(everyone deserves a few days off)
x 3 to 8 hrs per day = 22,680 to 60,480 hours spent playing/practicing the Mandolin.
Granted, my figures are completely based in speculation. But I recall Mr. Thile saying that he has to play at least 3 hrs a day to not get worse - so 8 hours per day for a working musician would not be unreasonable.

So how much playing does one need under their belt before they "deserve" a Loar?

Would have brought my Zippo if anyone had warned of a flamethrowing contest. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

EDIT:

As to the OP: We had big plans to make the Louisville show - we missed the March one due to inclimate weather. We missed this one because my wife decided PB would be a little "too much" for our ten month old girl, and that she needed to be at least one year-old before staying home alone... # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

MikeEdgerton

Aug-12-2008, 9:36pm

I realize that there are some players that evoke strong sentiments but if we don't have an answer that pertains to the question we can always pass a thread by, there's no rule that says we have to post in it. Let's try not to troll, it doesn't play well with us ogres that have to moderate this forum.

Tom Sanderson

Aug-12-2008, 9:39pm

To get back on track.....I saw the Punch Bros. at Dunegrass 2 weekends ago and he was playing the Dude with the broken headstock.

danielpatrick

Aug-12-2008, 9:49pm

how was the crowd at Dunegrass? I saw Todd Snider at the Ark the Monday after and I believe he also played at Dunegrass.

piratebob13

Aug-12-2008, 9:56pm

First of all I can't think of anyone more worthy of a Loar than Chris...

getting back to the original topic...

I talked to Chris at Largo about a month after he got his Loar...He said he wanted to have the fingerboard replaced with one that was radiused and had a scooped extension...

I talked to Chris after a solo show at The Troubador a few months later...He played his loar...and he had been true to his word...he said that both Steve Gilchrist and Lynn Dudenbostel had worked on it...and it now has the new fingerboard...

Tom Gibson

Aug-12-2008, 9:57pm

I saw them a few months back at a small venue in Santa Barbara. They definitely aren't playing to the packed houses that he did before Nickel Creek split up.
Was it the Lobero (sp)? I saw Del & the Boys there a few (or 7 or 8) years ago, it was a great show and a really neat theater.

As for playing in smaller places, I'm sure he's smart enough to know that was going to be the case and that he can fill them back up again whenever he wants with a more "accessible" sound. If this is what he's enjoying playing for now, more power to him.

How is the Dude's headstock broken such that he can still play with it? Does anyone have pictures?

MikeEdgerton

Aug-12-2008, 9:58pm

I'm sure the scroll is broken off, it's actually a fairly common occurrence in the F5 world no matter who makes them.

Chris Biorkman

Aug-12-2008, 9:59pm

No, it was a bar/restaurant called Soho.

MikeEdgerton

Aug-12-2008, 10:02pm

Like this guys...

Tom Sanderson

Aug-12-2008, 10:03pm

how was the crowd at Dunegrass? I saw Todd Snider at the Ark the Monday after and I believe he also played at Dunegrass.
I would say small - less than 2000, but the weather was great and Sleeping Bear Sand Dunes are one of the true wonders of the world.

lovethemf5s

Aug-12-2008, 10:04pm

To get back on track.....I saw the Punch Bros. at Dunegrass 2 weekends ago and he was playing the Dude with the broken headstock.
Can someone splain why this guy breaks his beautiful instruments so often? I've always wondered about this. I respect his musical ability but this has me completely bewildered.

Chris Biorkman

Aug-12-2008, 10:08pm

Some people are careful with their instruments and others view them like tools and don't worry about scratches and dings. I think Chris falls in the latter category.

Tom Gibson

Aug-12-2008, 10:09pm

Like this guys...
That looks pretty cool, actually. I think I'd keep it like that.

Austin Koerner

Aug-12-2008, 10:15pm

yep, I'm was wrong. For some reason I thought that it was fixed, I now remember that it was deffinatley broken off.

Hal Loflin

Aug-12-2008, 10:20pm

WOW!!!
My understanding from threads about his Dude a couple of years ago was that the strap came loose and it hit the floor and broke the headstock scroll. This has happened to many players. I don't think it has happened "that often"...just the once. Might be wrong.

BUT...Talk about Chris being in a category of using his instrument as a tool and not taking care of them, this being judged by the looks, would put him dead center with Bill Monroe in that club. Take a look at his mandolin...and this was after Gibson repaired the headstock with the broken headstock scroll.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii309/smyrnagc/MonroesGibsonandCase.jpg

lovethemf5s

Aug-12-2008, 10:34pm

mandolirius

Aug-12-2008, 10:39pm

<WOW!!!
My understanding from threads about his Dude a couple of years ago was that the strap came loose and it hit the floor and broke the headstock scroll. This has happened to many players. I don't think it has happened "that often"...just the once. Might be wrong.>

I know of several repair jobs that originated with a strap coming loose. I've even come close myself, but luckily caught the instrument on its way down. And it makes me wonder - why can't someone design a strap hole that won't let go. This is a big gripe I have. It seems so simple to incorporate a way of keeping the strap on the instrument. I mean, if we can put a man on the moon..........

John Hill

Aug-12-2008, 10:51pm

I wish I could have hung around to talk to him...like he doesn't get 100 "what about your Loar" questions each show. I really wanted to hear it played. But the Dude did sound superb and besides the headstock it's starting to show some serious distressing around the treble f-hole, unless the lighting was playing tricks on me.

On a side note, Noam Pikelny (sp?) has the deepest voice this side of Barry White.

Hal Loflin

Aug-12-2008, 11:00pm

Not saying Thile is trying to imulate Bill in any way. Anyone that plays a mandolin as much as some of the full time artist do will have instruments that show wear and won't stay pristine. Just that if there is classic case for a mandolin being worn from use then Bill is the chairman of the club. Wait a minute...Maybe Frank Wakefield would be considered also.

From past threads my understanding is that Thile has two Dudes and only one has the broken scroll. I saw him in Memphis three years ago and he was playing a Dude that was intact...no broken scroll. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

evanreilly

Aug-13-2008, 2:15am

I suspect that CT will take very good care of what he has called "The First National Bank of Chris", or something close.
Monroe just beat the tar out of his for a very long time; his action was immensely higher than Chris' and he played harder, without mercy. His got pretty worn from just being beaten on; CT doesn't beat on his as hard.
Headstocks are accident-prone no matter how hard, or softly, one plays.

morristownmando

Aug-13-2008, 3:52am

I haved been warned to not express my opinons on thile and his loar.So he is just the best mandolin player that ever hit the f5 world.

Rob Powell

Aug-13-2008, 4:41am

morristownmando

Aug-13-2008, 4:48am

I haved been warned to not express my opinons on thile and his loar.So he is just the best mandolin player that ever hit the f5 world.
That's pretty strange...I would think you could say pretty much what you wanted here...not everyone is a big CT fan...

I happen to be a fan but I can't think of anything you could say that would upset me...different strokes and all that...

I must say being sarcastic about his abilities isn't going to win anyone over to your side. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Whether you like his playing styles or not I think you could agree that he's got a lot of knowledge about the mandolin fretboard and a lot of musical skills.
I agree he is talented true but just because i dont like his style music and other things i have been warned not to say anything else unlesss its something good about him.

Chris Biorkman

Aug-13-2008, 5:09am

Scott Tichenor

Aug-13-2008, 5:15am

I agree he is talented true but just because i dont like his style music and other things i have been warned not to say anything else unlesss its something good about him.
That's not true, and you know it.

You've engaged in hijacking threads and starting flames because you don't like Thile's music. If you don't like his music, that's not our concern, but people wishing to engage in him as subject matter deserve the opportunity to have those discussions without their threads being hijacked. It'd be best if you found another forum that welcomes this kind of participation because it's against our posting guidelines, and you seem intent on continuing your inappropriate posting from last night.

This is the last off-comment post about this subject we'll tolerate. Those of you that have have nothing to add to the conversation in regard to the original post, please move on. We'd like the people that respect this forum to have the opportunity to address the question at hand.

Chris Biorkman

Aug-13-2008, 5:36am

When I saw him a few months ago, he was playing the Loar. I also remember someone posting back when he first acquired it that he had shipped it to Steve Gilchrist. I think he had the fingerboard replaced, but don't quote me on that. When I saw him, he had removed the pickguard too, apparently so he could be free to scratch the top as he sees fit. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Al Hagensen

Aug-13-2008, 5:50am

I was at a show in a church in Chatham Twp. N.J. when this band was first on the road,This is the way to see these guys!
They were red hot,great musicians and they hung around after the show and were talking to everyone who wanted and signing for all who asked.CT is worthy!
I can't wait to see them again.

MikeEdgerton

Aug-13-2008, 5:58am

I haved been warned to not express my opinons on thile and his loar.So he is just the best mandolin player that ever hit the f5 world.

OK, that's trolling and we need to stop it.

I should have read farther down, Scott's already jumped in.

kmiller1610

Aug-13-2008, 6:09am

Does anyone know anything about the Gibsons Chris is shown with on the covers of "Leading off" and "Stealing Second?"

I know Todd Phillips borrowed a Loar to play on the original DGQ album from the early 70s....

But I can't tell a Loar from a "regular" Gibson, so thought I'd ask...

sgarrity

Aug-13-2008, 6:30am

He played some different Gibson F5Ls on those early recordings. Maybe someone with more info will chime in. As for the Loar, Chris bought it so he can do with it as he pleases. Remember, it's a tool for making music. So if he wants to take the pickguard off and have the fingerboard replaced, he should do it.
Whether you like his music or not (and I certainly don't like all of it), you have to agree that he's one heckuva musician!

Stephanie Reiser

Aug-13-2008, 6:47am

He played some different Gibson F5Ls on those early recordings. #Maybe someone with more info will chime in. #As for the Loar, Chris bought it so he can do with it as he pleases. #Remember, it's a tool for making music. #So if he wants to take the pickguard off and have the fingerboard replaced, he should do it.
Whether you like his music or not (and I certainly don't like all of it), you have to agree that he's one heckuva musician!
That is correct: Chris used to own a Gibson F5-L before Lynn showed him the Dude #5.
Modifying Loars is not all that uncommon. Mike Marshall's Loar has had extensive mods done, including changing the fretboard out for a radiiused one that is scooped. He's also had it regraduated.

Perry

Aug-13-2008, 6:50am

To answer the original question. Thile's loar was recently spotted at a well known and respected repairman's shop in Brooklyn.

Dude replaced the fingerboard a while back. Thile's loar was in the Brooklyn shop for a lower bout crack/split and some other minor issues.

The mystery is solved http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sleepy.gif

F5GRun

Aug-13-2008, 6:58am

Thile does appear to be quite rough on his instruments, similar to Bill. But one must remember that when Bill was playing his loar it was not worth as much as they are today. They were definatly sought after, but not worth the hundreds of thousands of dollars they are today. I think (feel free to correct) bill only bought his for a few hundred way back in the day? Im not sure what that translates too in today's dollars, but it surely wasnt more valuble than the whole farm!

Maybe CT should get the headstock scroll surgically removed from his loar, so it cant break off, then when the time comes it could easily be replaced? Or possible have a repalcement put on now that is designed to absorb impact like the bumpers on modern day cars. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif Just a joke, total blasphemy!

Keith Erickson

Aug-13-2008, 7:40am

MN John,

I walked away from that Fretboard Journal article believing that he was going to have work done and/or modifing the fretboard.

I don't know what else we could contribute this that wasn't mentioned to David Grisman http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Kirk Albrecht

Aug-13-2008, 7:44am

Thanks for those who have more "inside" knowledge of what Chris is doing with the Loar. The first few pix I saw of it indicated it was a well-preserved instrument, and with play it should be a monster. The one time I heard him in concert he was playing the Dude, and I have a hard time imagining another mandolin sounding as good.

Here's a related question which I hope keeps us on topic - Chris is getting (or has gotten) a radiused fretboard with a scooped extension. My listening to Bill Monroe over the years doesn't hear a lot of "pick click" because of that extension, though Ricky Skaggs has a lot of it (which I personally find distracting and a bit annoying). Was Bill just that much more talented as a picker to avoid those clicks? Or was it just a matter of adapting how he played because that's what the instrument was? Does it make you a more skilled player to play well on a non-scooped, flat fretboard?

F5GRun

Aug-13-2008, 8:01am

Kirkola. I believe CT got the radiused board not because its "easier" to play, but I think its more of a preferance and a comfort issue. I personally love radiused boards, it just feels better in my hands. And for pick-click a scooped board helps reduce it becasue its farther way from the strings, I believe bills style/technique played away from the finger board extenstion. Also he played with a pretty high action so his strings were farther away from the board anyway without having it scooped.

evanreilly

Aug-13-2008, 8:14am

Bill's 'manly' action height pretty much kept pick click to a minimum.

Fretbear

Aug-13-2008, 8:17am

In the FBJ interview, he mentions that the Loar may never surpass the Dude for what he uses it for, and that the only mandolins he has played that sound better than his new Loar are DG's Crusher and Reischman's Loar. It is interesting that he has had no hesitation in changing out his fretboard for a custom one, while Alan Bibey re-configured his entire pick grip to accommodate the existing fretboard extension.

Jim Hilburn

Aug-13-2008, 9:32am

I've been thinking alot about fingerboard width lately and the Loars have always been very narrow at the nut.
I wonder if the Dude has this feature or even the earlier Gibson's Chris played and if not, how would the transition to a narrow board feel to Chris. Lynn has been very true to the Loar model and may have duplicated the fingerboard. I don't know.

As for Bill's pick click, I always thought he played back toward the bridge more and didn't play over the extension

fatt-dad

Aug-13-2008, 9:52am

In many respects, I've been living in a mando-cave for too long. I've never really listened to Chris Thile when in Nickel Creek or now with the Punch Brothers. On a separate but related note, my wife really doesn't like listening much to mandolin music (don't ask how we survive, eh?). That said, she got tickets to a concert series at the University of Richmond (where we saw the Bush, Douglass, Meyer show last year) and this year we're going to see Punch Brothers and Stringdusters (separte shows that is)! It's nice to hear favorable reviews (picnic tables notwithstanding - ha).

Maybe then I'll form an opinion on CT, 'cause apparently he's some dude that folks think strongly about!

f-d

first string

Aug-13-2008, 10:23am

In the FBJ interview, he mentions that the Loar may never surpass the Dude for what he uses it for, and that the only mandolins he has played that sound better than his new Loar are DG's Crusher and Reischman's Loar.
I thought that was interesting too. Frankly, having heard him play them both, I think I prefer the tone of the Dude. It seems kind of strange to admit that a huge part of the appeal of the Loar is the lore (nothing like a bad pun) surrounding it, but to buy one anyway. Personally I think the Dude has a certain clarity that works better for just about everything except hard driving, straight ahead, traditional bluegrass. The sound of the Dude is really what convinced me that materials matter to some degree (along of course with the skill of the builder), in that there is something there that seems characteristic of most Engelmann topped instruments that I've heard. But that aside it is just an incomparable tone.

I was also surprised to hear him praise DG's Crusher so highly... Of course I've only heard it on the "Tone Poets" album, but it wouldn't be at the top of my list. No offense to DG or any of the many people who hold his Loar in such high regard. It's a great mando I'm sure. Just isn't my favorite Loar sound, much less my overall favorite mando tone. To each his or her own I guess.

Brandon Flynn

Aug-13-2008, 10:30am

first string

Aug-13-2008, 10:41am

in that there is something there that seems characteristic of most Engelmann topped instruments that I've heard. But that aside it is just an incomparable tone.
So Thile's dude has an engelmann top? I know a lot of his tone comes from his technical skill, but I still would like to think my eventual F5 can have a similar type of tone.
Yes. It's Engelmann. It's also obviously a fantastic instrument made by one of today's modern masters. That said, anyone who says that the mandolin doesn't make any difference should listen to the cut of Thile and Mike Marshall on "Tone Poets" where Thile is playing Crusher, and then listen to any of his other recordings. You can talk about variances in the recording techniques, familiarity with the instruments, blah, blah, blah, etc. But when it comes down to it, I think there is a very evident brittle midrangey sound to the Loar, while the Dude has a warmer, clearer, more bass heavy tone. Thile still sounds like Thile. He is still a great player getting great tone. But it is a different sound.

Perry

Aug-13-2008, 10:43am

As for Bill's pick click, I always thought he played back toward the bridge more and didn't play over the extension

In the Homespun Video Mr. Monroe is picking mostly OVER the fingerboard extension.

BTW that is a great video and well worth having to see and hear "the" mando up close. And although filmed later in his life he is still picking some pretty hot stuff, to me anyway. The tone is fantastic. 'Dry' would be a way of describing his tone.

Mandoe

Aug-13-2008, 1:00pm

I've heard CT's Dude #5 many times live and had the great fortune of playing it a couple of times. In Chris' hands, the Dude sounds like a harp. Fantastic tone that suits his playing so well and his signature sound. The action is so low, however, that all I could get out of it was thunk! No tone for me. I have yet to hear CT play his Loar in person.

I've played 10 Loars in my life. Three really stood out to me in tone. My favorite is Mike Marshal's Loar, which I know has been highly modified. Similar to Chris' Dude to me and plays very easy without the chunk. A fantastic mando. Never played Crusher or Reischmann's Loar.

lovethemf5s

Aug-13-2008, 1:00pm

From past threads my understanding is that Thile has two Dudes and only one has the broken scroll. I saw him in Memphis three years ago and he was playing a Dude that was intact...no broken scroll. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
My understanding from past threads is that Thile had Lynn repair the broken headstock scroll on the Dude. If this is correct and one of the headstock scrolls is broken now, this would add up to two broken scrolls. That's why I asked if anyone had an official tally. I know these can be easy things to break but it has crossed my mind more than once that Thile is a butterfingers. On the other hand, maybe you can't believe everything you read on the discussion board. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

JEStanek

Aug-13-2008, 1:43pm

I think a big part of Bib Mon's sound, as others have posted, lies in playing closer to the bridge than the fingerboard. #That's why there is less pick click on his recordings. #Removing a finger rest is, to me, strictly a matter of comfort and personal style. #If he's used to playing without one, having one there could require serious right hand technique / position changes.

I've seen Chris play a couple of times. #I wouldn't characterize his style as Mule Whipping but, he is an enthusiastic player from a body english perspective. #The mandos I've seen him play have a lot of wear on the treble soundhole area (presumably from hitting microphones). #These two things may contribute to why his instruments look the way they do.

edit: I'm not a fan of a tapered end pin in a hole... I like a screwed into the end block end pin better... even still those leather straps can come off... crash!

Jamie

Jim Hilburn

Aug-13-2008, 2:09pm

Well there's plenty of Bill to watch on Youtube so I pulled up his appearance on The American Music shop hosted by Marty Stuart. He played Southern Flavor.
Sure enough he plants his wrist on the bridge and picks mostly over the smallest section of the extension.
But the cool part of this video is that while Marty is taking a great break on guitar Bill starts bending over as though he's in pain. Marty starts doing a double take but as Bill's next break starts it becomes apparent that his mic stand is drooping and Bill is just stooping down to keep in the mic. He must have been well over 80 at the time. Check it out.
Connection to the original thread... Chris has a Loar and so did Bill!

woodwizard

Aug-13-2008, 2:38pm

You know what's so cool about when someone brings up anything about a Loar signed mandolin? To me it's the fact that there are so many members here that own em or that have owned them. It's always great to hear first hand from these guys. I've been pretty close to a few but never have played any. Hearing that Chris Thile got one just seemed like a natural thing to happen to me.

Jim Nollman

Aug-13-2008, 2:43pm

When I first heard CT in concert, I couldn't believe the unique #rich tone he was getting from that Dude. I also noticed that he doesn't play his instrument very hard, at least in concert. so whatever damage is being done to his instruments, #has not been evident #during the two times I'ver seen him onstage. In general, that group seems totally laid back compared to any bluegrass group where speed is the main message.

In my experience, mandolins sound richer in tone when you play them rather gently. Pick angle and proximity to bridge or fingerboard is the primary things that create a player's unique tone. For instance, I notice that no one who plays my mandolin gets the same tone out of it that I do. Most of them wag the pick at a perpendicular angle, #back and forth between strings in typical bluegrass style. I play one note at a time, from a basis in jazz riffing and soloing. When I vamp, I place the pick at a rather oblique angle from the strings and kind of massage the tone by slightly damping the chords. I'm not trying to imply that I'm a good or a bad player, only that these attributes seem to be the basis of tone. When you get to certain level of instrument, these other things determine tone at least as much as #the instrument itself. .

On a related note from this thread, I recently heard John Reischman at the Vancouver Folk Festival. He seemed to be playing two F5 instruments. One was an old Gibson. It sounded OK, with typical bluegrass tone. It didn't sound like anything special except a good bluegrass instrument, which all the players own. That must have been his Loar. But the other F5 really got my attention because it reminded me so much of CT's unique bell/harp tone. John was too far away for me to read the maker's name, although it was written vertically down the headstock. #Can anyone tell me who made it?

I've said this before on the Cafe, that these days I #find most bluegrass to have devolved into a speed competition. It is the one quality that primarily contrasts the touring pros from amateurs. I like lively music as much as the next person, although when speed leads, #tone is the first thing that gets thrown away. Even a professional's muscles will eventually start to limit his ability to keep inching up the velocity.

Thile plays as fast as anyone, but his own style is not those long melody lines up and down the neck , but rather short, lyrical jazz-like lines, that let both his ears and the audience's ears rest and also let him regain his positioning.

mrmando

Aug-13-2008, 2:54pm

On a related note from this thread, I recently heard John Reischman at the Vancouver Folk Festival. He seemed to be playing two F5 instruments. One was an old Gibson. It sounded OK, with typical bluegrass tone. It didn't sound like anything special except a good bluegrass instrument, which all the players own. That must have been his Loar. But the other F5 really got my attention because it reminded me so much of CT's unique bell/harp tone. John was too far away for me to read the maker's name, although it was written vertically down the headstock. Can anyone tell me who made it?
I'm sure a lot of people on the Cafe would disagree with you about John's Loar. But his other mandolin is a Heiden.

Benevolent Dick

Aug-13-2008, 2:55pm

Thanks Scott and Mike.

MS

mrmando

Aug-13-2008, 2:56pm

I know these can be easy things to break but it has crossed my mind more than once that Thile is a butterfingers.
That's how he plays so fast! Lube the left hand.

John Hill

Aug-13-2008, 3:19pm

For those who have seen the Dude close up, just how low is the action?

Chris Biorkman

Aug-13-2008, 3:28pm

I think I remember him saying something to the effect of his action being so low that it wasn't "manly" in an interview a while back.

Mark Walker

Aug-13-2008, 3:34pm

edit: #I'm not a fan of a tapered end pin in a hole... I like a screwed into the end block end pin better... even still those leather straps can come off... crash!

Jamie
Kinda-sorta on a related subject: #I have a tapered end peg on my Angel; got a dab of wood glue on it to keep it IN the mandolin. #
Regarding my strap coming off - it won't. #(At least not very easily!) #The old guy who braided it for me took a piece of heavy waxed thread, and tied it in a 'clove hitch' knot on the peg before slipping the strap on, leaving about 6 inches of the thread on each end. #After he put the strap on (in the hole best suited to the length I was most comfortable with) he took the two ends of the waxed thread, tied them over the strap with about three square knots, and snipped off the excess.
I might drop the mandolin and break the curl on the headstock, but it ain't-a-gonna be because of my strap coming off the end pin/peg! # #JMHO, YMMV. # #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

JEStanek

Aug-13-2008, 3:48pm

I think I remember him saying something to the effect of his action being so low that it wasn't "manly" in an interview a while back.
IIRC, Thile called his action "girlie". I like low action and lighter guage (flatwound) strings myself. I'm no mule skinner... perhaps a fried chicken skin eater...

Jamie

Perry

Aug-13-2008, 4:46pm

But the cool part of this video is that while Marty is taking a great break on guitar Bill starts bending over as though he's in pain. [QUOTE]

This is a planned "joke" during Southern Flavors' of that era....Bill would lower his mic at the end and then a band member would ask him "what ya doin'"
Bill would answer "I'm getting down" or sumpin like dat...you can see an example on YouTube

ok back to Thile http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Jim Rowland

Aug-15-2008, 11:45am

Has anyone else heard the story that Chris was carrying the dude in zip up case and forgot to zip before he slung it over his shoulder resulting in the snapped scroll? I read it somewhere.
Jim

jasonv

Aug-15-2008, 1:42pm

Hi gang! For those keeping score (I know a few folks are), I talked to Joe Glaser two weeks ago (he was installing a Plek at Westwood Music in LA) and he informed me that, after Lynn replaced the fingerboard and nut, Chris took the mandolin to Joe's and had Joe carve yet another new nut for it. So it apparently has a Dudenbostel fingerboard and a Glaser nut. I believe Joe may have also replaced the nut on Chris' Dudenbostel a while back, too (though don't quote me on that one). Joe admitted he's not a mandolin specialist per se, but I guess Chris likes his nuts (that sounds dirty but didn't mean to). http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

danb

Aug-15-2008, 1:47pm

I think a big part of Bib Mon's sound, as others have posted, lies in playing closer to the bridge than the fingerboard.
Bill's Loar is widely regarded as an extraordinarily strong mandolin, even among a pretty "tough field" of other great Loars.

Chris does use low action- I've heard that a few times in interviews and on videos etc. The dude he plays is also a clearly exceptional mandolin, with an amazing tonal response that really compliments Chris's technique.

I know it's often a topic here- "how much of it is the mandolin and how much is the player". I can tell you that you can indeed get a lot out of a good mandolin. It lifts up your game and rewards good stuff. You tend to seek out fine instruments as your chops develop. I think of the good mandolins as an amplifier for good music.

Capt. E

Aug-15-2008, 1:47pm

I talked to Chris at Largo about a month after he got his Loar...He said he wanted to have the fingerboard replaced with one that was radiused and had a scooped extension...

Why ?

sgarrity

Aug-15-2008, 1:50pm

Because for some people, myself included, it's more comfortable and easier to play

Jim Nollman

Aug-16-2008, 4:15pm

<< I think of the good mandolins as an amplifier for good music.

Expensive mandolins also serve as indicators of how serious a player takes his music. Or here's a statement to pique the ire of some on this site. At a certain level of instrument-making proficiency, Let's be realistic and admit that they all start to sound more alike than unalike.

I have a lways been an admirer of the David Lindley school of instrument acquisition. With the basics covered (flat fingerboard, good neck angle, playable action) ANY instrument can perfectly color a song arrangement as well as any other instrument.

kmiller1610

Aug-17-2008, 4:18am

I think there has to be a certain "passion as religion" ingredient that flavors how we view icons like the Loar.

Is it really better than the Gibson Master models? Did Loar have some secrets that make the Loar $200,000 more valuable or like many things, is it the status, the imagined value and the fact that you can't get them any more that drives up the price?

Chris can do what he wants obviously, but don't we have enough scientific information to make an instrument as good as the Loar today or better?

Joel Spaulding

Aug-17-2008, 5:50am

Chris can do what he wants obviously, but don't we have enough scientific information to make an instrument as good as the Loar today or better?
Of course we do - and some builders are making instruments that sound and play so much like a Loar as to be almost indistinguishable from the Holy Grail of Mandolins.
BUT- it' still... NOT a Loar.

We can make cars that are safer, faster, more reliable than many a classic - but its not the same. I would take a "perfect" Shelby AC Cobra replica for a fair price - maybe 40- 50K. But it would not have the mojo, history or "cool" factor of an original at $ 675,000 (http://www.nickeychicago.net/vehicle.php?id=172)

Would love to see Chris play several of his Mandos in the same show - maybe back to back - would be interesting to see which instrument he would chose for different styles. Probably this has been discussed but would like to hear if anyone is aware whether Mr Thile does prefer the Loar for a certain song style.

Ken Olmstead

Aug-17-2008, 8:50am

Hmmmm...Shelby Cobra or 3 Loars? What to do, what to do? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Jeff Chu

Aug-19-2008, 7:17am

when i saw him play in albany, he played the dudenbostel only. i was sittin in the 2nd row, and his playing and technique is so clean and polished thati cant see how he would put so much wear on it, as you guys described. his pick strokes are so precise, and measured that i guess the only way is though his rhythm playing. He really whacks at the mandolin when he plays rhythm, but it sounds so good. now my question for you guys is, finger board choice. i have always only had a mandolin with flat fingerboard. i tried a radiused the other day, and it felt great. what are the benifits, i guess feeling great is enough in its self, but does it improve the sound of chords, reduce buzzing? i was told a radiused fingerboard spreads the weight and pressure on the neck to allow for a thinner neck, more violin like. also what is a scooped extension? does that mean that they want more frets? or just teh extension but loser so that the pick doesnt keep hitting the finger board? thanks guys.

-jeff

Capt. E

Aug-19-2008, 8:36am

My wife's ex owned a Shelby Cobra back in '72, the maintainence cost ate him up. What's the maintanence cost of a Loar?

I just wondered why someone would modify a Loar so much...new fretboard etc. I suppose it was not in "original" condition.

Capt. E

Aug-19-2008, 8:41am

I have a flat fretboard on my Shiro and a radius on my Weber. I don't see too much difference between flat and radiused, except perhaps a bit cleaner individual string play. The bigger difference to me is width. I can bar two strings with one finger easier and cleaner with the Weber.

MandoCowboy

Aug-19-2008, 4:05pm

I went from a radius to flat fret board. It took some adjusting but I won't go back. I found single note picking to be much easier on the flat, especially on the outer G and E pair of strings. With a flat fret board these strings are closer to the frets, with a radius the strings are further away. Thus the flat fret board for me ment lower action and ease of playing over all. This also applied to double stops and fretting closed chop chords, as the finger stretch was not as lengthy and thus easier for me. The only thing that I found easier on a radius is bar chording, but I play traditional bluegrass chop chords and don't have much use for the bar chord style.

danb

Aug-19-2008, 10:22pm

At a certain level of instrument-making proficiency, Let's be realistic and admit that they all start to sound more alike than unalike.
I'd say it's actually the opposite.. the really good ones all sound different from each other and have distinct personalities. Different builders aim for different tonal qualities. If you are talking Loars, You'll hear some tone families, but you'd have to play most of them to pair up some that sound "identical".

On the flipside, it doesn't require the mandolin to be expensive to have that uniqueness of voice or quality that really lights you up. The hang-up for many is that the high price of a Loar makes it hard to experience them. once you have, you might find that the qualities you most enjoy are available in higher quantities from a moodern builder at 1/20th the price.

I'm a junkie. For me a fine mandolin is like a single malt scotch. It's to be savored, tasted slowly, and appreciated for it's unique flavor.

danb

Aug-20-2008, 12:27am

as far as Chris modifying a loar.. I would think that from the "preservationist" standpoint, picking one that's already had some history is a better candidate for chaging parts.. but I can't blame him! Long may he play it, and long may we all listen.

jefflester

Aug-20-2008, 4:13pm

Just for the record...

Thile has broken the headstock scroll on both Dude #5 and Dude #14. Dude #14 headstock scroll break was back around 2001 (as pictured in the artwork for Not All Who Wander) and was repaired. That break was the one where he picked up the unlatched (or unzippered) case and it fell out. Dude #5 headstock scroll was broken November 2007, not sure how it was broken. As far as I know it hasn't been repaired yet. The break on #14 was more severe, cutting into or right at the edge of the "Dudentbostal" inlay. He's been going back and forth between Dude #5 and the Loar over the past year.

Also, I believe the Loar has been in for work on multiple occasions. I think the FBJ interview was from awhile ago (last year some time), before he even had the initial work done by Gilchrist (new fretboard). He's not playing it currently because of different work.