Table top repair setup?

[mandodan1960]

I'm looking to make a temporary workstation for when I do maintenance work on my Mando. Would like something portable that can be clamped to a desktop and removed when done.
Thanks,
mandodan1960

[dave17120]

If you buy something, it will never have all that you want, and probably things you don't want. If it was me, I'd design and build it myself, then you can make it fit whatever space and requirements you have. You don't need a lot of fancy stuff even to build them. Dave

[Paul Hostetter]

To me the important requirements are a solid and very flat table with a neck cradle and perhaps a small jeweler's vise, and some real good lighting. Everything else fits in a small box.

[mandolinplucker]

Harbor freight has a small work bench. I think that it is birch or some oriental equivalent. It has a tail vise and dog holes which I think is a must for holding stuff still so you can work on it. The legs need some bracing to keep it still when you apply lateral pressure like sawing, planing,sanding,ect. It is small and finished nicely and with a table cloth over it it will look like another piece of furniture. The main thing as mentioned by others in this and previous threads is make it solid and sturdy enough to work on.

[mandodan1960]

I was in a hurry when I started this thread so I was not very specific. Let me try again. I have a background in furniture making and can make whatever is necessary. I have in my workshop a 1950's metal desk (army issue)that takes 4 people to move (very stable). I've drilled holes in it and have sacrificed it to many a project. I have not had a good look at a mandolin luthiers workstation to understand how to secure the mando body when for instance fitting a bridge without causing damage due to the back and forth motion. I understand a neck support but how and what do you use to secure the body. Sorry I was so vague.

Thanks,
Mandodan1960

[MikeEdgerton]

I wouldn't use one of these to do fretwork but I just ordered one of these violin stands from Ken at International violin. I plan on using it for changing strings, etc. I'll let you know what it's like after it arrives. He assured me that it will fit a mandolin.



http://www.internationalviolin.com/images/items/large/T97.jpg

[TheMandoShop]

I took one of those violin stands apart and bolted the two pieces that hold the violin sides in place to a sturdy work bench and positioned it appropriately for a mandolin. #It works great holding a mandolin securely without damage. #With that and a full length neck cradle it is great for doing re-fret work as well as for changing strings. #Just yesterday I bought another one for another bench and it was killing me to pay so much for just the side clamps but I've been unable to find them separately anywhere. #It works so well that I bit the bullet and bought another on. #Anyone know where to purchase those side clamps without buying the complete violin holder?

Kyle

[DougC]

I think Rockler has clamps like the side clamps there. I'll check on that.

[mandodan1960]

Hey Mike did the violin setup work for your Mando ?
I looked at their site (International violin) and could not find that product. I also checked Rockler and found a clamp or two that may work but they would need modification and weren't quite what I had in mind. Still seeking.... Mandodan1960

[Frank Ford]

Here's my kitchen table work station, set up on my kitchen table:

http://www.frets.com/ForumPix/necksupport01.JPG

For mandolin, I'd roll up a smaller towel.

[mandodan1960]

Frank,
What sort of setup do you use to hold it still for a refret or a bridge fitting.
Mandodan1960

[Frank Ford]

I use a simple block with a leather pad for neck support only when I tap in frets:

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Mandolin/F5Refret/F5RefretViews/f5refret44.jpg

#Otherwise I never use any kind of support or restraint while working on instruments. #Needless to say, I don't actually refret on my kitchen table, although in years past I have done a few there.


Sorry for the lack of high tech, but I work on a wide variety of instruments, and I've gotten used to doing things the way I do. #Dan Erlewine introduced me at the 1996 Northwoods Guitar Repair Seminar as the guy who works without a neck support. #Until then, I hadn't noticed that most people use one.

A support would have no effect on my bridge fitting, for example, because I do most of it by scraping:

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPa....et.html (http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Mandolin/FitBridgeFeet/fitfeet.html)

[Paul Hostetter]

Like Frank, I have never needed a rig for holding an instrument for any routine maintenance, or even most advanced stuff. I do immobilize cellos and basses (and sometimes guitars) when I plane their fingerboards. Otherwise freehanding has worked marvelously well for more than 40 years.

[sunburst]

I use leather covered neck supports like the one in Frank's picture most of the time to stabilize instruments, that and a carpet scrap on the bench surface. For fret work, I cradle the neck in a shot bag. The shot has enough mass that it is pretty stable on whatever surface I'm working.

[MikeEdgerton]

The IV stand is really pretty well made. It holds the mandolin well. I'm looking for something to support the instrument while changing strings, etc.

[MikeEdgerton]

Another angle

[MikeEdgerton]

Closeup of the clamp

[MikeEdgerton]

The neck support

[MikeEdgerton]

And one last shot

[MikeEdgerton]

Finally, here (http://www.internationalviolin.com/item_detail.aspx?ItemCode=T97) is the link to the product.

[mandodan1960]

Thanks to all who posted and especially Mike and Frank for taking the time to post pictures. I'm always amazed at the lengths people on this forum will go to be helpful. As a matter of fact I've spent good money before at various vendors and didn't get the help I get here. Thanks again guys. I like the international violin setup and it looks like a good value. I really think I would feel better if the instrument was secure while I tinker be it bridge fitting or changing strings. Thanks, Mandodan1960

[Paul Hostetter]

I just don't see the point of a contraption like this. I've changed strings on thousands and thousands of instruments over the last 40 years and never felt the need to have any held down in any way. In fact, quite the opposite - the contraption would be an impediment to necessary access and motion. Those thumbscrews into the sides seem downright dangerous. I'm in the camp with John Hamlett and Frank Ford.

[MikeEdgerton]

Well Paul, I was watching a fiddle guy do setups with one, they've really been around for years only made of wood. They seem to work fine for violins. There's a picture here on the cafe of someone using a wooden one to do setups years ago. The clamps are a little less dangerous than any full sized parrot vice that I've seen, there's no impediment to changing the strings (I actually hang the headstock off the end of the table) and although I've only got 40 years of changing strings for myself and a few others I have no problem using it, it makes it easier to get to everything and it stores easily. I'm not adverse to you not using anything, if it works for you it's fine.

[markishandsome]

Who changes their strings anyway? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[MikeEdgerton]

Who changes their strings anyway?
The same people that try to make the rest of us look bad by tuning up. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Paul Hostetter]

I'm not adverse to you not using anything, if it works for you it's fine.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Thanks! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

But most of my work has been and remains violins. Neither the guy I apprenticed with, nor anyone else I know in this field, ever uses these things either, wood or metal, for small instruments. I could probably use one in some production situation, but my current method of immobilizing an instrument on the rare occasions it's needed is much simpler and takes up way less storage space.

Try and remember I was not telling you to stop using it if it makes you happy, but rather was talking to the undecided who are also reading this thread. I would not encourage people who want to change their strings to run out and buy one, which is what you seem to be doing. Just because it's a product on the market doesn't mean it's something everyone (or anyone) actually needs. Perhaps if they were cutting purfling channels on a violin a day, that might be different. Or perhaps if they had to change strings with one hand tied behind their back. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[MikeEdgerton]

Actually Paul, someone asked a question, I responded with what I had recently purchased. I really don't care too much if anyone buys one or not. It's not an advertisement, it's simply an answer to a question much the same as you answered, nothing more, nothing less. I don't think Frank Ford was selling bath towels or rubber bands in his answer or was he?

[sunburst]

There are more and more "luthiers" these days from hobby builders and repairers to simi-pro and professional, at all experience levels from rank beginner to those with 20, 30, 40 etc. years experience.
There have always been marketers of "stuff" to sell to people. Designing, making, and selling "specialized" things to people interested in various trades is as old (probably) as the trades themselves. Experience is the best way to learn which of these things are worthwhile and useful and which are not, and the opportunity to learn from the experience of others can be a valuable thing.
I'm not trying to put words in Paul's mouth here, but between me, Frank Ford, and Paul Hostetter that's somewhere around 100 years of experience saying "you don't need to spend your money on one of these things to change your strings and do set up work on your mandolin", and that's all we're saying, nobody is saying "don't buy one!". You're free to buy one of these and/or any of the other "gimmicks" that businesses like Stewmac and others market, but sometimes the voice of experience is at least worth acknowledging.
Of coarse, different folks work differently, use different tools and procedures, and find different "things" useful, and there are probably very experienced luthiers who love the violin stand, but rest assured that you don't need one to change your strings. In fact, for simple string changes I often use my lap, sitting on the front porch.
This is not directed at the OP or any individual in particular, but more at the inexperienced out there are confronted with todays vast array of "luthier tools" and are overwhelmed by the choices.

[MikeEdgerton]

And I don't think anyone was saying you have to spend money on things. However, you certainly can and if you want to have at it. My bumper jack works fine for changing a tire but my floor jack is much better for me at least. Nobody is taking anything away from anyone, if you choose to do things without any specialized tools that's fine. I don't write code for websites in anything other than notepad. That doesn't mean I'd tell you to ignore any of the tools used to help you create web pages. It's just a tool.

[resophonic]

I find that a pattern makers vice is indispensable, one of the most used items in my shop. I have lined the wooden jaws with thick cork and it does not damage finishes. The jaws swivel and hold all kinds of oddball shapes. Can't recommend it enough. It works great as a holding fixture for all kinds of tasks.

My bench is just a hard, flat, laminate surface and the whole table is on casters that I move around under a fixed light fixture, gets me away from clamp lights that always seem to be in the way.

I use a rather dense closed cell piece of foam for padding that I salvaged from some packing a while back. Wood and other chips don't stick to it and it is easily cleaned off with compressed air.

I use a bag of shotgun re-loaders shot for fret work. It works with the same principal as a dead blow hammer, firm surface, no bounce. I suppose I should be using it sewn up in another bag to eliminate any chance of lead exposure, thats the only down side to the application. I have not noticed any dirt or dust from the bag bag but there are warnings printed on it to make you aware of the risk. I can tell you though, that it works great for hammer in fretting. If you get one , look for #7 or #9 shot size, smaller is better.

The Collings in the picture getting the partial re-fret had the most fragile finish I have ever had the displeasure to work on. Very poor adhesion to the neck in particular and wanted to peel like a bad sunburn. Any one else have problems with Collings finishes? CA fixed the problem, but it will be back no doubt...

[resophonic]

Fretting set up.

[jim_n_virginia]

Here's my kitchen table work station, set up on my kitchen table:
For mandolin, I'd roll up a smaller towel.

Well I'll be durned! Frank I use a rolled up shop cloth too when I work on my mandolins.

I use an old TV tray and throw a towel over it (sometimes a sweater or a coat) and then roll up a shop towell (I don't even use rubber bands) and stick it under the neck. Then I sit in the living room and changes strings, set up, fit the bridge whatever etc. while listening to the radio.

Been doing it this way for as long as I can remember.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[BlueMountain]

I get lots of ideas from Frank Ford's www.frets.com, and I've added a few from here and there, Dan. I work on the island in the kitchen, so I always have to clean up and put things away when I'm done.

I bought a roll of non-stick tool drawer liner foam at WalMart or Harbor Freight or somewhere for a few dollars, and I keep it in a little box near the kitchen, and I roll it out whenever I'm going to work on an instrument. I have a couple pieces of closed-cell foam that I use to support the neck. I always use one when I change strings, as it's so much easier to change strings if the tuners are a couple inches above the table.

I have a 2 foot square scrap of countertop (cut out of the island when the stove was installed) to which I've glued leather feet. On it I've mounted a Harbor Freight parrot vise, as recommended by Frank. The main vise pulls off, leaving only the attaching shaft. I store the vise and the 2 foot countertop piece under the island in the kitchen, where they aren't very noticeable. I've followed Frank in making plywood and leather guards that allow me to deal with various curves without scratching things on the vice.

When I install new frets, I block the neck with a five pound bag of lentils from the kitchen cupboard. Works just fine. So would a sack of rice. Whatever's handy. Most of my tools are in a tool box nearby. Some are in the garage. I wish I had a separate shop, but it's sort of cozy to be able to work with other people nearby doing their things.

I haven't found that I need anything fancier. When I need hide glue, I make a little in a 2 oz. plastic cup with a lid. I heat with hot water in a gravy separator with a plastic strainer on it. I cut a hole in the strainer the size of the plastic cup. This keeps the cup from floating away. I pour boiling water into the gravy separator, set the cup in the hole in the strainer, stir it with the digital thermometer until the temperature is right, use the glue, and clean up. (I don't often need it, but I do have to plan in advance by a day so the new glue will be ready.)

[sunburst]

I figured some of you might find this interesting.
I haven't used it yet, I might travel with it if I'm going to do minor work elsewhere, it was a gift so I don't know where to get one.

[sunburst]

...

[sunburst]

...

[sunburst]

It's like a giant "mouse pad" that rolls up and goes in the plastic tube for storage. The neck rest is the plug for the tube. Sort of a gimmicky substitute for a couple of towels if you ask me, but it looks cool!

[MikeEdgerton]

Stewmac has sold this for a few years but I can honestly say I've never seen one like that.