Gibson showcase repair = wizard of oz?

[tnbluegrasser]

The Wife and I had the opportunity to go to the Gibson Showcase in the Nashville Opry Mills Mall this past Friday. I bought a Gibson F9 in early 2002 and it is now in need of a fret-dress/level job, bone nut, and tune-up. To find the Service Dept, the retail rep pointed to the back of the building where I had to find my way through a huge black curtain and dark hallway. Only one person there who would not acknowledge me. I was excited to see the work area of a well know mandolin artist/collector/luthier who wasn't there. I finally gave in an asked the other person for assistance. He did not want to help me. He said the well known mandolin luthier only works on "factory stuff". I asked if anyone else could help me with some simple fret-dress/bone nut/setup and he said he sometimes worked on mandolins...but did not like to do that simple work and it would be a 3 week wait. I felt I was not worthy and I was disappointed. My expectation was that Gibson would have had a nice service department and would have sufficient staff resouce to handle this type of simple work (like an auto-dealership has a full service department). So, I have two questions for The Cafe community...

First - Are my expectations too high?

Second - Where does one go for this type of simple work on a mandolin?

I live in the Knoxville area. I believe I'll seek out Steve Perry as I have enjoyed his posts here on the cafe and find he seems to have a great reputation for quality work and accessibility.

Please note that (other than the Service Dept experience) we had a blast at the Gibson Showcase (aka: "Mandolin Mecca"). We got to jam with some young folks and the Sales Rep a the front of the building allowed me to "lay hands" on the new Victorian Model mandolin. I couldn't believe when he said I could play it!!! I was a kid in the Land of Oz. Thus, the let down by my experience in the Service Dept. It was like..."Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!!!". http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[Bill Snyder]

If you thought you would be able to walk in and have your mandolin taken care of while you waited that sounds VERY un-realistic. To be treated like someone important (a customer) is not un-realistic at all.

[Chris Biorkman]

If you thought you would be able to walk in and have your mandolin taken care of while you waited that sounds VERY un-realistic. To be treated like someone important (a customer) is not un-realistic at all.
I agree.

[MikeEdgerton]

I think it's better to call ahead to make sure they can do the work, the rest is unfortunate. Big Joe Vest does this sort of work. His shop in Nashville is called Big Joe's Guitar Works. Here (http://www.mandolincafe.com/news/publish/mandolins_00843.shtml) is a link to the page announcing the opening of the shop.

I would still call ahead to let them know you're coming and to set up an appointment to have the work done.

[tnbluegrasser]

I should have clarified that I had absolutely no expectation they would do the work while I waited. I totally agree with everyone on that note. However, I did expect someone would be available to acknowledge my need and inform me of their process and pricing structure. Instead, I was given the impression that I was not worthy. My overall impression was they were not interested.

[tnbluegrasser]

I should have clarified that I had absolutely no expectation they would do the work while I waited. #I totally agree with everyone on that note. #However, I did expect someone would be available to acknowledge my need and inform me of their process and pricing structure. #Instead, I was given the impression that I was not worthy. #My overall impression was they were not interested.
Thanks for the information and link, Mike. Although this is my first post...I've been a daily reader of the Cafe forums for several years. I appreciate and respect your contributions to this message board.

[MikeEdgerton]

Again, that's unfortunate. I don't know how they are structured but calling ahead is still the better way to go. At least then you'll know what you're up against. I'm sure that if you give Big Joe a call he'll be more than happy to help you out. Beyond that, perhaps this might be better handled if you contact Gibson Customer Support from their website. You might be pleasantly surprised at their response or you might not be. They would certainly be the place to start.

[Dalton Maples]

I can only say there is a company located in Belgrade, MT that will bend over backward for you. Seems Gibson left it's cream in Montana!

Steve Perry would be the way to go in TN. I have met him at IBMA and talked with him at length about some work. Very nice, very informative and will actually steer you away from work if he feels it is not needed or will not do the instrument any good.

DM

[Timbofood]

Sounds similar to something that happened at the shop I worked at here in Kalamazoo. A "well known" mandolinist appeared at the "nosbiG" factory to have a new nut fitted to his "old red mandolin". Rather unceremoniously they handed him a piece of material and sent him on his way. At least they gave him a piece of (I seem to recall it was something like Corian.) material.
Well, a short time after departing Parson St. he strolls into my store, sees someone working on a guitar and asks if we could fit a nut for him. "Luther", ( good name for a repair guy) says "Sure" and as the customer is passing through the door he asks "Aren't you... Frank Wakefield?" The response was "Yes, I am, thank you. He goes out and gets the mandlolin and "Luther" fits the nut and I am priviliged to hear about 45 minutes of picking from Frank and Joel Mabus. I REALLY miss that job! I suppose the point is sometimes one gets lucky and can have something done right away. this was one of those times. I understand that you were not expecting to have the work done right away but, acknowledgement of your presence and common courtesy was, imho, certainly merited. Treat customers with the respect that they earn by walking in the door and they will come back again and again. I learned that a long time ago, I wish more folks had.

[Steve Perry]

Well... tnbluegrasser, don't feel like the Lone Ranger. #I was down there a few months ago under similar circumstances and got the exact same treatment. #I didn't expect them to take my mando in right then and do any work on it. #I did expect to be treated more courteous and for them to maybe take a quick look at my mando and offer suggestions and a time that the work could be done. #In their defense though, part of the problem you and I experienced is because we went in on a Friday. #Danny Roberts and Jackie Miller who were doing the work when I was there are both working musicians and out on the road on the weekends. #I we had gone in during the middle of the week things might have been different. #The truth of the matter is that Gibson isn't the only show in town. #There are plenty of other luthiers out there that can do an excellent job. #The other Steve Perry http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif is relatively close to you and has an excellent reputation. #Heck, if I'm not mistaken, I believe Lynn Dudenbostel does repair/setup work. #Regardless, I'd find it hard to believe that there's not a good luthier right there in East Tennessee that could do what you want. #Ask some of the other mando players around who they use.

[Rocky Top]

tnbluegrasser, are you familiar with the Cumberland Plateau area? I live in Cookeville, TN and there's a great luthier over in Sparta by the name of Jim Grainger. He runs Custom Fretted Instruments and Repair ( www.customfret.com )and has a staff that helps him out that does great work too, they're the only ones I let work on my instruments. When I bought my F5G, it need some set up work done, and they did a wonderful job. I hear that people come from all over to let him work on their instruments, so if you don't mind the drive, you might want to consider checking him out. Good luck!

[tnbluegrasser]

Well... tnbluegrasser, don't feel like the Lone Ranger. #I was down there a few months ago under similar circumstances and got the exact same treatment. #I didn't expect them to take my mando in right then and do any work on it. #I did expect to be treated more courteous and for them to maybe take a quick look at my mando and offer suggestions and a time that the work could be done. #In their defense though, part of the problem you and I experienced is because we went in on a Friday. #Danny Roberts and Jackie Miller who were doing the work when I was there are both working musicians and out on the road on the weekends. #I we had gone in during the middle of the week things might have been different. #The truth of the matter is that Gibson isn't the only show in town. #There are plenty of other luthiers out there that can do an excellent job. #The other Steve Perry http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif is relatively close to you and has an excellent reputation. #Heck, if I'm not mistaken, I believe Lynn Dudenbostel does repair/setup work. #Regardless, I'd find it hard to believe that there's not a good luthier right there in East Tennessee that could do what you want. #Ask some of the other mando players around who they use.
Not wanting to beat this horse further...

However, if someone accepts a job somewhere (see your reference to the Pro-Pickers/Repairmen) and if they are 'on the clock' in their repairman role, then they should give 100% to the job they are clocked-in for at that moment.

The up-front Sales Rep at the Gibson Showcase told me to go back to the "Service Department" and someone would help me. That implies someone would have been there to (a) greet me (b) listen to my request and © provide feedback as to their repair process/policies/pricing...all while according me due respect as a valued customer. That did not happen.

Again, if someone accepts employment as a "Service Technician/Repairman", then they should be expected to perform ALL the related Customer Service responsibilities. He was the "customer-facing" representative of Gibson to me at that moment.

I (like others) paid a fair price for my Gibson mandolin. I assumed I was also purchasing good customer service in addition to the Lifetime Warranty of Gibson as part of that higher price-point that Gibson mandolins command. My Dad had had the same Gibson guitar since 1954 and sent it in many times (from Texas) and brags to others about the great service. If Gibson is going to offer a Mandolin "Service Department" at the Showcase at Opry Mills...then they should provide "service".

[JEStanek]

I'm sorry you had a bad experience. #Good customer service often does more to maintain brand loyalty than initial product quality, in my experience.

Before you use someone else to work on your Gibson, I'm assuming you bought it new, understand what that may mean in terms of your warranty. #For better or worse, if you wish to maintain that contract with Gibson, you must abide by it. #I'm not advocating not using another builder/luthier, just know what it could mean.

edit: I'll second what Mike suggested above. Prior to doing anything else, contact Gibson, ideally over the phone, and speak with someone about your bad experience. See if they want to do anything to make it right for you.

Jamie

[MikeEdgerton]

We have no problem with anyone registering a complaint for bad service providing they follow the posting guidelines. We are even happier when someone can suggest luthiers in the OP's area for him to contact. Let's try and keep it in that vein if possible.

[Steve Perry]

tnbleugrasser sez...

# # #Not wanting to beat this horse further...

Me neither... #Well, ok... maybe just one more whack. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

# tnbleugrasser sez...

However, if someone accepts a job somewhere (see your reference to the Pro-Pickers/Repairmen) and if they are 'on the clock' in their repairman role, then they should give 100% to the job they are clocked-in for at that moment.

I agree... but because it was a Friday, in the summer, the Pro-Pickers probably weren't on the Gibson "clock". #If we had both gone in during the middle of the week when those guys were there things might have been different. #Or... maybe not, I don't know. #It's just a guess. #I've met Danny Roberts before and he was very nice and friendly. #He didn't seem like the type to snub anyone, much less a customer.

# tnbluegrasser sez...

Again, if someone accepts employment as a "Service Technician/Repairman", then they should be expected to perform ALL the related Customer Service responsibilities. #He was the "customer-facing" representative of Gibson to me at that moment. #

Agree, agree, agree! #Seems like someone at Gibson repair needs to have a customer service refresher.


Awww... the heck with all this... let's pick!
#
# # #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[tnbluegrasser]

We have no problem with anyone registering a complaint for bad service providing they follow the posting guidelines. We are even happier when someone can suggest luthiers in the OP's area for him to contact. Let's try and keep it in that vein if possible.
Thanks for pulling back on the reigns, Mike. Understood and I agree.

My original intention was to only get opinions about what my expectations should have been and recommendations for alternatives. The great responses achieved that goal for me today.

Thanks everyone!

[PT66]

"I felt I was not worthy and I was disappointed. My expectation was that Gibson would have had a nice service department and would have sufficient staff resouce to handle this type of simple work (like an auto-dealership has a full service department)."

Just a small comment. You didn't go to the dealer, you went to the factory. If you had taken your car to the factory you would have got even less service.

[Bill Snyder]

Gibson Showcase is also the dealer. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[jramsey]

I think it's all about talking to the right person. I had a small issue with my new Gibson mandolin and left a message with Dave Harvey. He called me at home within the week and was very helpful and friendly, letting me know all my options. Even though they said he doesn't work on the "small stuff", he seemed very dedicated to quality customer service to me, and I believe that he would pay the same attention to any Gibson owner, definitely giving you your options for repair and the waiting period involved. I think you might have been there on the wrong day talking with someone who quite possibly had been on the job too long.

Jordan Ramsey
myspace.com/crosspicker (http://www.myspace.com/crosspicker)[U]
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'07 Gibson Sam Bush

[mburkes]

Some years back I sent my F5G to the Gibson shop for frets, a radius and some scoopage. I spoke with Big Joe Vest on the phone. He was the nicest, helpful, unassuming guy to talk to! I sent the mando, he did the work and sent him back. No problems. I had never been on Mandolin Cafe and did not know Big Joe Vest from Adam.

I spoke to him on the phone recently and he remembered me. Wow!

Some folks are just born to work well with people. What a big deal for Gibson to find one that is personable and has great hands! Maybe Big Joe could do some interviewing for them.......

[Crowder]

There is a great repair guy in Jasper, TN. I can't pull his name from my gray matter just this minute. He has worked on guitars for Chet Atkins and Jerry Reed. He refretted my old Flatiron Festival and did a fantastic job.

Dadgummit, what is his name???

[MikeEdgerton]

Probably Sonny Thomas.

[Stephen Perry]

Grainger is much more experienced with frets than I am. Not that I don't work on frets, just that I'm really a no-fret fellow!

What's really fun is attempting to get attention if one wants to be a Gibson dealer. I tried that once at NAMM. After managing to attract someone's attention, I was directed to leave NAMM, go down the street and see if I could find a fellow. Then I was dismissed. It worked, haven't been interested since.

But that's still head and shoulders above Martin - they won't acknowledge I exist. Chatting with each other over coffee is more important than a buyer.

In contrast: Weber.

[Big Joe]

Hey Guys...I'm sorry you had a bad experience at Gibson. The guys there are really great guys. They are just overworked and the system they have to deal with is a bit difficult for them. I do not mean to make excuses for them, just telling what it.

We are happy to help anyone in our shop. We may well have been able to do the work while you were in town. If I know you are coming I will make arrangements to get it done for you while you are in town. You will like our work. We are more than capable of achieving the results you want. Thank everyone for thier kind comments. It is appreciated.

[tnbluegrasser]

We are happy to help anyone in our shop. #We may well have been able to do the work while you were in town. #If I know you are coming I will make arrangements to get it done for you while you are in town. #You will like our work. #We are more than capable of achieving the results you want. #
Joe, thanks for the reply. I'll call to discuss the details of my needs. I do plan to call the factory to discuss my experience and what type of work would not void my warranty. With that in mind, I do have a few questions that your response may be of benefit to this entire forum.

NOTE - The following is NOT focused on a single manufacturer, rather the mandolin manufacturing industry in general.

To what extent of work can you (or anyone other than a given factory technician) perform that would not potentially void a consumer's warranty?
- Setup?
- Fret dress/level?
- Fret replacement altogether?
- Bone Nut replacement? (this is the big question)
- "Tuning" the mandolin Tone Bars?

In other words, where does one "cross the line" with regard to the factory warranty and cause it to be voided?

An example factory warranty document states that "Any instrument that has been altered or modified in any way....(would void the warranty)".

Would that hold true if someone at the original factory's shop installed a better nut than the original?

And further the example warranty states, "...does not warranty the playability of an instrument whose "action" is lower than the standard "action" as defined in the owners manual".

Would this then require someone, working on the setup, would have to consult the owners manual to assure they did not lower it too far, right?

And, finally, is any factory Warranty actually worth preserving (not voiding)? Stated differently, how valuable is a "factory warranty"?

Joe, I would feel you would be a top authority to respond to these types of questions. I appreciate your time and I'm looking forward to speaking directly with you soon.

[red7flag]

tnbluegrasser, while at Big Joe's great shop, I think I noticed that he is an authorised Gibson repair shop and that his son is a recognized as a Gibson repairman. I was not really focused on that so if I got any of that wrong, somebody please correct me.
Tony

[Big Joe]

Any of the items you listed can be done very well in our shop and they will not void your warranty. Normal repairs for maintenance are not considered alterations. However, if one does a repair improperly the factory warranty will not fix the poor repair for you. Frets and nuts and saddles are kind of like tires and brakes to a vehicle. They need to be serviced regularly and as long as a competent person does the work, no problem. There are a lot of people who claim to be able to do differing kinds of work, but not all of them are good at what they claim. Know your luthier and his reputation for the kind of instrument you are needing repaired and the kind of work he is doing. For example, a good guitar repair person may be totally useless on a mandolin or banjo. Someone may be able to do good fret work, but not a neck reset. Some shops have had the experience to do great volumes of work on all aspects and all instruments. Our shop is such a shop. There are several good shops active on the cafe.

Again, if I can be of help just let me know. Thank you.

[Moldrush]

Being one of the individuals in the front of the retail store I'm glad we were helpful for you. it is a sad to hear of the negative experience you had in our repair shop. yes we only have to people in house at the Gibson Showcase for repair and they are very hard to get in touch with sometimes. as Big Joe said they are working musicians and very competent at there music and repair. I do beleive we should have done a better job on the front to help you at least fill out a repair ticket. we are different divisions so we don't always know when they are in or out and if we are busy it can be difficult at times to escort you back. Not to make excuses because there in no excuse for bad service but I do understand your frustration.

[dustyfiddle]

A couple of years ago I sent a fiddle to Jackie Miller to repair at Gibson. One other well known place in Michigan refused to repair the fiddle because they said that it was too far gone. For a very fair price he not only repaired it, but hand-picked a neck whose figure was better than the original. His workmanship was flawless, his setup exceptional, he chose new strings based on my preference of tone, and was a real gentleman. I have no experience with his mandolin repair, but I can't imagine either he or Danny being anything but wonderful to work with. Just my experience.