Harmonics

[Soupy1957]

I wonder if (I haven't tried it yet) "harmonics" are possible on the mandolin?

What about using the "harmonic capo" (although designed for a guitar, I imagine that a smaller version could be cooked up for the mandolin), on a mando?

-Soupy1957

[Chip Booth]

Of course, they are used a lot. Thile/Marshall play entire song composed of nothing but but harmonics.

Chip

[Tom C]

Harmonic work best on 12 fret (1/2 way point). But you can play them on other frets as Grisman does on Grandfather's Clock on Tone Poems. 3rd ad 4th on G string, but it's hard to pulls those out. I've seen Barry Mitterhoff play them all over the place by splitting the string distance 1/2 with 1 finger on right hand and plucking the pick at the same time. crazy stuff.

[Jim Broyles]

Soup, a string is a string when it comes to harmonics. They'll all do it - banjo, violin, viola, guitar, bouzouki, ukulele...
I just learned what a harmonic capo is, but why would you want to use one on a mandolin?

[Jim Broyles]

Harmonic Capo Tutorial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-AttuzCUXI)

[Oliver R]

God, I just watched that..
I never before knew that they existed!
Exelent, I must have one.
H.C.A.S is kicking in!http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[man dough nollij]

That harmonic capo thing is pretty wicked. I wonder what it would be like to build one so that only one string of the course plays a harmonic, with the other one open... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[Don Christy]

Just got back from Mandolin Symposium. Mike Marshall taught a class on special effects on the mandolin. One was harmonics. As someone else said a string is a string and harmonics are no different on a mandolin.

Most know how to get the harmonic at the twelfth fret, just lightly touch above the 12th fret as you pick the string.

If you want to get the harmonic at a different place you have to fret the note and lightly touch the proper place for the harmonic as you pick the string. To find the proper place, just count up how many frets from the nut you are fretting. The same number of frets above the 12th fret is the harmonic point.

Sounds confusing to write, but it's not hard to do. For example, to get the harmonic for the E at the second fret of the D-string, fret the E note at the second fret with your LEFT hand and simultaneously lightly touch the string above the 14th fret with your RIGHT INDEX finger. Use the pick between the thumb and MIDDLE finger and pick the string as you move your right index off the string so that the harmonic can build.

Good luck.
Don

[emitfo]

**WARNING! Video is NOT Mandolin**
Mandolin Content: Mandolins are so cool I hardly touch my wonderful guitars anymore http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif I guess I'll have to be independently wealthy so I'll have the time!

I was fortunate to be informed of this technique a number of years ago in a Guitar Player interview of Chet Atkins who described the technique of Lenny Breau. Here's a link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXJ2UqWdQOI&feature=related
He starts doing the harmonics just before 1/2 way through this video. All his playing is other worldly beautiful--prepared to be dazzled and then double dazzled when he goes harmonic. I haven't listened to Lenny in years--thanks for the reminder, I think I'll go listen now.[/B]

[TEE]

Bill Monroe used harmonics on my "Last Days on Earth". Give it a listen sometime. Great song.

Theres a good version of him doing it on you-tube. Sorry I don't know how to do the link thing.

[Soupy1957]

Anyone have a video link to harmonics being played on a mandolin? A quick YouTube.com search gave me THIS interesting video, but I'm looking for harmonics performed with a mandolin specifically:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=sOMiowrff0Y

-Soupy1957

[Jim Broyles]

Bill uses them on Kentucky Mandolin (http://youtube.com/watch?v=JFvndnx5zKg) in the song and for the last chord.

[Don Christy]

Mike Marshall and Chris Thile do the entire song Shamrock Shore using string harmonics. I couldn't find a You Tube version, but it would be cool to find one. The song is on Into the Cauldron.

Don

[Coffeecup]

As a total newbie to mandolin I hope I'm not posting what is general knowledge to everybody else. It seems relevant to Soupy1957's question though. Having played (inexpertly) a 12 string guitar for a while where use of harmonics is just about a necessity for tuning, I was looking for a similar method when I got the mandolin a few weeks ago.

It seems to me that this works fine for standard GDAE tuning.

G string 7th fret harmonic = D string 12th fret harmonic
D string 7th fret harmonic = A string 12th fret harmonic etc.


Mal

[man dough nollij]

Hi CC, welcome to the cafe! With that handle, you should fit right in. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

I've never tried that harmonic check in tuning, but that might be a good trick to work around a quirk I've found in some electronic tuners-- they seem to have a hard time differentiating between a D and a G. The G string can be close to in tune, but the tuner just says D,G,D,G... One workaround I've found is to clamp the tuner right on to the end of the bridge, which is a little hard to do, but it gives a cleaner signal.

When I get back to my mando, I'll see what it does on the harmonic. I don't seem to get real strong harmonics on the 7th fret, though.

[Coffeecup]

Thanks for the welcome. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I will admit to finding this method in order to save a couple of dollars. My very basic guitar tuner can be used to tune the G but not the other strings.

[UnityGain]

As a total newbie to mandolin I hope I'm not posting what is general knowledge to everybody else. #It seems relevant to Soupy1957's question though. #Having played (inexpertly) a 12 string guitar for a while where use of harmonics is just about a necessity for tuning, I was looking for a similar method when I got the mandolin a few weeks ago.

It seems to me that this works fine for standard GDAE tuning.

G string 7th fret harmonic = D string 12th fret harmonic
D string 7th fret harmonic = A string 12th fret harmonic etc.


Mal
I used to do this all the time, but its not right. #Problem is that that those harmonics don't exactly work to tune your mandolin. #The problem is bevause of equal temperment. #If you tune your Ds to the harmoinc 5th produced by your Gs it will sound right, but the D will not be the right pitch. #If your not familiar with equal temperment, google it. #It requires that the relationship between notes be consistant and the same regardless of what note it is. #Problem is that this doesnt mesh perfectly with the harmonics of notes, it is very close though close enough most of the time so you wont hear it, unless you have a very sensitive ear. #But if you use the harmonics to tune your Ds to your Gs and then your As to your Ds and then your Es to your As, the small amount of being off will add up and your Es will be out of tune with your Gs.

Edit: However, playing the 12th fret harmonic to help your tuner hear the note is fine, since octaves are perfect. You just get into trouble with using 5ths or other partials to tune.

[Jim Broyles]

My basic tuner tunes my mandolin fine. All the notes naming the open stings on a mandolin are also found on a guitar.

[Coffeecup]

UnityGain, thank you for that information, I can see that a cumulative error would be a problem. Ah well, a better tuner will be the way to go then. My existing one doesn't recognise octaves other than standard guitar.

[Eugene]

A whole volume of Pettine's 7-volume method compiled in the early 1900s is given to right and left hand harmonics. Playing full pieces in natural and artificial harmonics is nothing new, of course.

Pettine, Giuseppe. ca. 1920. Pettine's Modern Mandolin School, pt. V: The Mandolin's Right and Left Hand Harmonics. Rhode Island Music C., Providence. 36 pp.

[girldingo]

Where can I get the Pettine mandolin method?

Merci,
Ilene

[MandoSquirrel]

Where can I get the Pettine mandolin method?

Merci,
Ilene
I think it's out of print. I've gotten (I think) 3 volumes & a collection of his sheet music through e bay & Amazon, but they don't show up often.

[pglasse]

FYI, Johnny Gimble is very adept at playing melodies with harmonics on the 4-string electric mandolin (tuned mandola: CGDA). If you can find it, there's video of him doing this on an Austin City Limits show with Tiny Moore and Jethro Burns -- a slow blues that becomes an up-tempo Fat Boy Rag.

Some folks refer to playing harmonics on a fretted string as "artificial harmonics."

A note on the great Lenny Breau: one of the amazing things about Lenny's use of harmonics is how he used this device to create "crunches" -- closer inversion chords than are generally available on the instrument. That is, he would play a harmonic on a low-pitched string (say a C note) and let it ring into a fretted note on a high pitched string (perhaps a D note) -- but in the context of a larger chord. Thus creating beautiful close inversion chords like his piano hero Bill Evans. To my knowledge nobody has really done this on the mandolin.

Paul Glasse
Austin Texas

[mandocrucian]

After getting Eric Johnson's Total Electric Guitar instructional video 10 years ago (probably further back than that, I can't recall), and seeing him do some extremely cool stuff with harmonics, I began incorporating harmonics into the mandolin note stream. Great on Asian melodies, but also sounds terrific on slower Irish stuff (or jigs played slowly). #And of course, liberally used throughout "Sleepwalk".

Instead of fretting every note, you can substitute the same pitch in a harmonic form, but with the textural advantage of the chiming effect, combined with letting all strings overlap and ring over each other.

Close-voiced G chord: (play as arpeggio until you get control of right hand position and can sweep pick across the string. Harmonics are produced with the RH index "artificial harmonic" technique even though the strings are open. #So you can get a chimed ringing 4-string chord with close intervals epuivalent to the rather bland (in comparison) 1st position arpeggio.

<span style='font-family:courier'>==============3==== #=========3===
======2============ #=====2=5=====
=========[12]====== #===5=========
==[12]============= #=============</span>

Now try the same concept for an A barre chord 2-2-4-5.

Or how about the big 3-octave G arpeggio:

<span style='font-family:courier'>=====================3==================(3)[15]==
==============2=========(2)[12]==================
=======0==========[12]==============[5]===========
==0h4====[12]=====================================</span>

(you can also get the 2 octave D [5] over the oval soundhole. The octave+5th harmonic, the one you get at the 7th fret, also appears over the 20th fret)

I'd put together pages and pages of harmonics studies and exercises, but for advanced techniques like this (or split-string, or pick + fingers, or clawhammer, etc. etc) putting it out probably isn't worth the time/effort..... for what, to sell perhaps a massive 10 copies, (if even that) a year?

Niles H

[Jim MacDaniel]

That harmonic capo thing is pretty wicked. I wonder what it would be like to build one so that only one string of the course plays a harmonic, with the other one open... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
Interesting idea, but I not every note on the fretboard would work with the harmonic on the opposite string. However, it looks like you might be able to position the rubber pads so that they contact only on string -- else I am guessing you may be able to modify the tips of the pads so that they are less wide.