Just the wrong mandolin

[JeffD]

This did not happen to me, but was reported on another thread, which I am excerpting here to give it its own discussion.

"I just spent the better part of two days with a bunch of bluegrass guys. They didn't like the first two mandolins I played but they loved the F-model that has "Gibson" on the peghead.

That particular mandolin is a cheap POS that sounds like junk. There is a sticker on the peghead that says "Gibson". "

I asked how the disapproval was stated.

"The disapproval was voiced pretty much along the lines of 'Don't you have a bluegrass mandolin?' Sometimes not so polite..."

"The first two were both As."

I commented back that "It would be really worth it if I could for ten minutes become the most awesome bluegrass mandolinist in the universe, you know, channel Bill himself for ten minutes - but play it on my bowl back. Just blow these guys out the water on my American Conservatory bowlback."

While certain mandolins are better at certain jobs, I would think that in all but the most expert levels, the "wrong" mandoin if played well will carry the day. I have an American Conservatory bowlback that has considerable wear south of the treble strings, indicating heavy chord use, possibly chop chords. An F5 would be more appropraite, but I would venture that there are many F5s that would not sound as good.

If this is a band situation, the band has the perfect right to dictate which mandolin to play - even if it might be a screwy decision. Heck the band could decide we are all going to play red instruments, and thats fine.

If this occurred in a jam, I would politely reply that no, it was not the wrong mandolin, it was the wrong jam, and I would walk away.


Have you ever brought the wrong mandolin for the job? How were you received?

[Doug Edwards]

If this occurred in a jam, I would politely reply that no, it was not the wrong mandolin, it was the wrong jam, and I would walk away.
I'd have to agree. Too many are caught up in their narrow perpective of the music. I love, love, love acoustic music and can appreciate many other genre's (except maybe rap). It don't matter much what the musician is playing with.

[Jeff Hildreth]

It is my observation that ACO BOCINA #did not win best mandolin player ( Winfield) because he was playing a bowback... he was ( and to my mind still is) the best mandolin player of the bunch. #Tatse vary but to lose because of the equipment, bigotry/bias.

I don't get where the band had the right to dictate the instrument,their disapproval and comments seemed to be more about image than substance. I'd walk.

Bill Monroe was the icon, but to my mind there have been plenty of better players (again my taste) and not all played Gibson F's...
it is my understanding the Gibson F was originally intended for classical music...
So if that be true, Aco Bocina can use #a bowl back to play "bluegrass".

[MikeEdgerton]

If you're playing with people that are more interested in what your mandolin looks like than in the music being produced you are indeed in the wrong jam.

Then again, if I heard someone say "He can't play worth a darn but he sure looks good with that mandolin" I'd have to take a certain amount of pride in that as well... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Bertram Henze]

I remember bringing my TB to a session in O'Connor's, Doolin Co. Clare. Noticing my CGDA tuning, someone told me "they tune it different here". His expertise was obviously neither based on musicianship (he had a TB himself which he never played, just held it by the neck) nor by nationality (he was French) - so I didn't bother to answer.

Not sure if this qualifies as "wrong mandolin", but sure it qualifies as "wannabe expert" or "small dog barks louder", which would match the OP story quite well. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Bertram

[grassrootphilosopher]

I encountered the shortminded and offbeat viewpoint "don´t you have a bluegrass mandolin" (could also be "a good mandolin", "a classical mandolin"... in different settings) when people play too loud and sacrifice volume for tone. I am one of those guys too that can be heard bashing away on my mandolin but I much rather like to be pickin in a setting whith a decent volume level and a good tone. Many instruments (bowlbacks, oval holes, a styles, f styles and so forth) can do that. In situations like that I either show them that my Strad-O-Lin can blow them out of the water, or I walk away (maybe with my Duff that could blow them out of the water twice) knowing that the way these people pick "ain´t no part of nothing". I was in a nice jam once when up walks this band of british bluegrassers (no namedropping, and I know a bunch of nice folks from the British Isles) that played so loudly that they choked the whole (so far) nice session. I then started to play my old Gibson guitar to the effect that I seriously irritated these guys as to the volume and then packed up and went away. I had much more fun in other sessions after that one. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Benevolent Dick]

I was recently advised by a soundman to "get a Martin" after he had difficulty with miking my Lowden Dreadnaught.
I am not responsible for either his ignorance nor tactlessness; uncharacteristically for me, couldn't even get angry about it....
I didn't tell him about my 1977 D35 sitting at home....

Mike S

[MikeEdgerton]

I didn't tell him about my 1977 D35 sitting at home....
No, he meant get a REAL Martin http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Aran]

Those guys the original poster mentioned sound like closed minded morons....

Ah well you get them everywhere....

[Tom C]

Heck, I've seen Carlo Aonzo play bluegrass tunes like Black Mnt rag on his bowlback.

[mandopete]

Maybe you need some electrical tape.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[earthsave]

Where can you get some of those Gibson stickers?

[Hans]

Heck, I've seen Carlo Aonzo play bluegrass tunes like Black Mnt rag on his bowlback.
In a long tailed tux, pinch his nose and sing nasally like Bill... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[jimbob]

Granted....I don't have as much experience as most here, but the hands-down best bluegrass mandolin I have heard did not say Gibson...It said Randy Wood.

[Jason Holmes]

I didn't tell him about my 1977 D35 sitting at home....
No, he meant get a REAL Martin http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Yeah, and a new one too. Not some old junker. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Gutbucket]

Heck, I've seen Carlo Aonzo play bluegrass tunes like Black Mnt rag on his bowlback.
He was just at Steve Kaufman's camp and picked a fiddle tune or two with other greats who had F-5's, and it was a breath of fresh air to listen to that bowl back sing. Didn't see a Gibson logo on it, but then again I wasn't sitting that close. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[MikeEdgerton]

Where can you get some of those Gibson stickers?
Just buy a package of Gibson strings and cut the logo off the string envelopes... I've actually seen "Gibson" instruments on eBay that had that same label on the headstock.

[fred d]

I to have had at different times been told to 1 get a better mandolin whhen I first started and that I was playing the wronge style latter. SO what I have done is put some stickers over the logos and just smile at there anal remarks. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sleepy.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

[John Rosett]

Maybe we should start making decals for mandolin pegheads that read "Don't look up here-the real joke is in YOUR hands!"

[TomTyrrell]

Wow, so much hate...

Why not just take the right mandolin in the first place? I mean really, would you take a solid-body electric mandolin to a bluegrass jam? Well, why not?

[MikeEdgerton]

I really don't see any hate here.

[Jim Broyles]

I hate when that happens.

[Gutbucket]

Some one should tell Tim O'Brian he's been playing the wrong mandolin for way to long. Geeze, ya think the guy would know better. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[allenhopkins]

Take your mandola to a bluegrass jam and see what reaction you get. #I've had a lot of fun confusing people with my Eastman, which looks like an F-5 on steroids. #But I would say, and I'll probably get flamed for it, that there can be a lot of orthodoxy and dogmatism among certain bluegrass people. #Wasn't too long ago, that a woman picking bluegrass got the fishy eye from the men; I trust that with the number of excellent female musicians in the field now, that particular prejudice is dying out.

If you can make it work, sound the way you want it, and keep up with the others, the kind of instrument you have shouldn't limit your participation in any musical style. #But attitudes can change slowly. #Plus, the mediocre 'grass picker who's laid out several big ones for his F-5G, needs some reason to feel superior to the guy pickin' rings around him on a Strad-O-Lin or Lyon & Healy...

[howbahmando]

"The disapproval was voiced pretty much along the lines of 'Don't you have a bluegrass mandolin?' Sometimes not so polite..."
Possible replies -

"You mean like Red Rector played?"

"You mean like Buzz Busby played?"

[Clyde Clevenger]

I have two mandolins with G on the headstock, a Gibson F and a Givens A. The Givens holds it's own with any F I've played. But, I do look awful good with that Gibson hanging on my shoulder. So, I'm a little shallow?http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[MikeEdgerton]

So, I'm a little shallow
You act like that's a bad thing http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Clyde Clevenger]

Mom says I have to, at least, appear humble.???

[JeffD]

Where can you get some of those Gibson stickers?
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Benevolent Dick]

I didn't tell him about my 1977 D35 sitting at home....
No, he meant get a REAL Martin #:p
Yeah, Mike, I s'pose you're right...lol

MS

[MikeEdgerton]

Yeah, Mike, I s'pose you're right...lol
I'm of the opinion that whatever works for you is the right instrument. One of the best sounding Dreadnought guitars I've heard was a mahogany Breedlove that a bandmate had. It just sounded right.

[Denny Gies]

I am pleased to say that no one has ever criticized my mandolin; my playing yess, but not whether I was playing an F style or an A style. People who are so hung up on looks need more medication. Plus they believe the addage "it is better to look good than feel good".

[Clyde Clevenger]

I take vitamins, but that doesn't seem to help.

[Jim Broyles]

In my evolution as a mandolin player, I have shown up at jams with:
Rover RM-75
Michael Kelly Legacy O - F style oval hole
Eastman MD-515
Kentucky KM-380S
Kentucky KM-250S
Fullerton Gloucester F style

Nobody ever commented about my mandolin until much later when I brought up the subject. I don't know what I was thinking trying that Oval hole MK - I knew what I was going to use it for, but I never heard an oval in person before that, and I was hoping it would cut a bg jam. It did not - I owned that for a very short time. The Eastman was only sold for financial reasons and all the others were upgrades of a sort. I got lucky with the Fullerton - it actually sounds like it cost a lot more than it did. There are cafe members who will testify to that.

[earthsave]

Where can you get some of those Gibson stickers?
Just buy a package of Gibson strings and cut the logo off the string envelopes... I've actually seen "Gibson" instruments on eBay that had that same label on the headstock.
Hey, now there's an idea. I use Gibson strings.

Finally, a use for those empty string packets. I figure for a more durable logo, I could cut out the cardboard and inlay it in my Beanblossom.

[mandopete]

That's it! I'm switching to the D'Addario EXP-75 mandolin.

[MikeEdgerton]

Finally, a use for those empty string packets. #I figure for a more durable logo, I could cut out the cardboard and inlay it in my Beanblossom.
Unfortunately you wouldn't be the first http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[250sc]

There seems to be a strong tradition of closed minds in the bluegrass world.

The often repeated phrase "no part of nothing" comes to my mind.

[JeffD]

I would not go that far. I would say that if one is going to create a new type of music, one has to distinguish it from what came before, and therefore some things have to be excluded.

And any band has the absolute right to define themselves anyway they want. No problem.

I just think we can all be a little more gracious and open minded. The style and quality of a mandolin says nothing about its player. Sure some mandolins are more suited for certain types of music, but especially in a jam situation there are no wrong instruments.

[Ted Eschliman]

The concern about a particular genre being narrow to change (in this case hardcore bluegrass "traditionalism") is not only a tired one, #but typically invites condescension and bitter in-fighting on the discussion board. We're firing a warning shot about not digressing into the name-calling that has a pattern of coming out of a strong emotional attachment to a favorite music. Seems the topic itself can lead us easily down that path.

[mingusb1]

They'd probably have asked me:

"don't you have any bluegrass mandolin chops?"!!
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

Z

[TomTyrrell]

People who wish to maintain the traditions pretty much have to be close minded. I run into the same thing in traditional Irish sessions that I see in traditional Bluegrass jams. Very little tolerance for anything that is not traditional.

Any time someone shows up with a non-traditional instrument he is suspected of being a non-traditional player. The train of thought is anyone who is serious about maintaining the traditions would have the proper instrument.

The more open Bluegrass jams tend to have a lot of country, folk and pop music mixed in with the bluegrass.

It is all good but if you were expecting traditional bluegrass "Almost heaven West Virginia" probably isn't going to do it for you.

[Gutbucket]

There's a mixture of music here in Illinois called Crabgrass. It isn't in any catagory.

[Jim Broyles]

It don't work. I put the Gibson logo from a set of real BILL MONROE strangs on my peg head and it didn't help me a dadburn lick to play better than I already did!

[kyblue]

I just laugh at those clowns.

Plus I kind of get a charge out of tweaking them now and then (just wait until I get my new red carbon fiber guitar.)

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Paula

[JeffD]

I run into the same thing in traditional Irish sessions
Oh absolutely. Bluegrass has no monolopy on narrow.


I attended an Irish session a few years ago, and played a perfectly orthodox double jig and was given the hairy eyebrow. It was explained to me "we only play reels."

skewwwwwwz meeee.

[Patrick Sylvest]

I often lament the lack of appreciation for Bluegrass in my part of the country, South Louisiana. There's just very little interest at all. 99.9% of folks here have never heard of David Grisman or JD Crowe or Jerry Douglas. Just last evening, I was at a ballgame and a fellow noted, 'Hey, you're that fellow that plays the ukelele at Mass.' I replied, 'It's a mandolin.' I've got a Cedar topped Limited Edition Weber with a mean chop, incredible sustain, and great volume.

I guess what I'm getting at is, perhaps I should count my blessings at least some of the time. People here appreciate very greatly what I'm doing to add a different touch to the music, even if they can't quite put their finger on what it is that's turning their ears.

I haven't got to worry about snobbishness. These folks couldn't tell my Weber from my Eastman, even though they're miles apart in so many regards. Ain't another mandolin player around to tell me I'm doing it wrong either.

[MikeEdgerton]

It don't work. I put the Gibson logo from a set of real BILL MONROE strangs on my peg head and it didn't help me a dadburn lick to play better than I already did!
It only works if you sell the mandolin on eBay.

[Gutbucket]

I was playing dobro at a so called Bluegrass jam here in Illinois with what I thought were die hard bluegrassers, when one of the pickers wanted to know who signed my dobro. When I told him it was Jerry Douglas, he didn't have a clue. I could have told him Dr. Seuss for all he knew. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[mandopete]

Dr. Seuss for all he knew.
Yeah, I've hear the Doctor play Fireball Mail - he nailed it!

[Gutbucket]

He was no slouch on Choctaw Hayride, too.

[Ken Sager]

To answer the original question... Yes. I've taken the wrong mandolin to a gig. A couple years back I played my very bluegrassy sounding Old Wave with a piano and tenor. Opera Tenor, that is. I simply walked out of the house with the wrong mandolin when I wanted my old Gibson A for the oval old-worldliness of its tone. The Old Wave still sounded great, just not as Italian as the old A would have.

One sound guy suggested once that I should have brought my mandolin with the pickup in it, or I should consider putting a pickup in the one I was playing. I suggested that if he wanted to do sound for more acoustic shows he should learn how to mic a mandolin...

Best,
Ken

[Flatpick]

To borrow a term from the Biker World...."It not what you ride, it's THAT you ride".... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

Flatpick

[Jim]

I have shown up to a BG jam with an oval hole A , No problem. In 04 & 05 however I was told I needed a Strat to get a good sound in the Blues trio I worked in. I was playing an ES-175. Don't get me wrong, I love strats and own one, I just prefer my ES for blues. I suggested that in most bars A 1500 watt bass amp might be overkill and pumping the drums through the PA is not really necessary. I don't work with them anymore. "People listen with their eyes" is what Les Paul said before he put guitar shaped "wings" on his original "Log" electric guitar. Perhaps a set of stick on scroll and points to go along with that Gibson logo sticker would make anyones A into a BG cannon.

[mandolirius]

<Perhaps a set of stick on scroll and points to go along with that Gibson logo sticker would make anyones A into a BG cannon.>

Ah yes, the scroll-envy conversion kit. A badly needed product.

[otterly2k]

I showed up at an Old Time jam once with an octave mandolin. People were perplexed. A lot of them asked what it was with honest curiosity. Which is fine with me. One guy sidled up to me and let me know, in a patronizing tone, "you know, the Celtic jam is tomorrow night"... like I was lost or something.

sheesh.
relax, willya?! it's not like I brought a trombone or didjeridoo~!

[jmkatcher]

I remember reading someone's anecdote about bringing their Rigel to an Old Time event and having Mike Seeger personally express disapproval.

[Paul Kotapish]

Among his many other virtuoso abilities, Andy Statman is a monster Monroe-syle bluegrass player, and until very recently he performed and recorded exclusively on an very well-distressed A.


Musical style is a state of mind, not a collection of instruments.

http://www.mandolincafe.com/news/uploads/statman_004.jpg

[TomTyrrell]

Les Paul was right.

[jim_n_virginia]

Hey Fellas even if you own a Gibson you cannot escape the bluegrass snobs.

I own a 1990 Gibson Fern and I have had several other Gibson owners tell me the 2000 Derrington and newer mandolins a better than mine!
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Seriously I have never heard anyone put anyone else's instrument down (OK maybe one Antonio Sai abberation) in all the years of going to jams.

All the jams I go to you play what you got and ANYTHING you got is better than NOTHING!

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[JeffD]

"People listen with their eyes" is what Les Paul said
Sad but true. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

I guess the goal is to get so darn good that they have to listen, even when you don't look like what they want.

[MikeEdgerton]

The only time I've ever heard someone put an instrument down was when a guy we all knew showed up with something called a <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Turkish-BANJO-CUMBUS-23-Case-Included-FREE-CD_W0QQitemZ110268154101QQihZ001QQcategoryZ623Q
QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">banjo cumbus</a> he bought on eBay and one woman asked if the cost of shipping it was more than the cost of the instrument. Even the owner was rolling on that one.

[Rick Schmidlin]

[quote=JeffD,June 30 2008, 09:24]Have you ever brought the wrong mandolin for the job? /quote]
No http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[earthsave]

The only time I've ever heard someone put an instrument down was when a guy we all knew showed up with something called a <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Turkish-BANJO-CUMBUS-23-Case-Included-FREE-CD_W0QQitemZ110268154101QQihZ001QQcategoryZ623Q

QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">banjo cumbus</a> he bought on eBay and one woman asked if the cost of shipping it was more than the cost of the instrument. Even the owner was rolling on that one.
Sorta looks like a banjolin.

[MikeEdgerton]

Sorta looks like a banjolin.
I think that's what he thought.

[lgc]

My stagedy it to bring my National Reso mandolin to jams. Anytime someone tries to tell me I have the wrong instrument I play a really loud mule kick behind the bridge before they can finish and then say "What?".