String tension

[recon]

I recently acquired an inexpensive OM. Mandolin is the only instrument I play and I am familiar with the string tensions of the mandolin. The string tension on this OM seems considerably less compared to mandolin. The scale length is 19". I have a considerable fret buzz on the G strings and can only think that increasing the string tension would reduce that buzz. Any comments or suggestions about remedying the buzz would be appreciated.

Also general comments about using different strings than standard OM strings are welcomed. Thanks.

[Steve L]

19" is pretty short. What gauges are you using? Sometimes there are reasons that inexpensive instruments are inexpensive. Poor fret work, a twisted neck or an odd neck angle could be in play. What make is it and where did you get it?

You might try raising/shimming the bridge on the G course side. Best to get it looked at by a good tech. But I think your basic assumption about heavier gauges (particularly if the current strings feel loose ) is probably right.

[recon]

The answer to all of the above questions is I don't know. I traded for the OM and the owner said he acquired it in Europe, but could not remember the brand and there doesn't seem to be any identifying information on the OM. Of course it was strung when I received it so I don't know what strings are on it, but I will ask the former owner. I really think the string tension is too loose because if, while holding the instrument in normal playing position, the G coarse is plucked gently and then the OM is rotated with the back toward the floor the buzz begins. Gravity? I will post a few pictures to see if anyone might help identify the OM.

[recon]

Headstock rear

[recon]

Front full

[recon]

Rear full

[Jason Nagati]

That looks like the $99 Chinese-made Lark in the Morning OM I bought (now $126). Mine doesn't buzz, but then your bridge is placed differently than mine. I had assumed mine was a fixed bridge for some reason. Do you have the one-piece bridge with the sliver of metal on top where the strings make contact? Mine is notched in such a way that the string pairs at the bridge are nearly as far apart as the distance between strings of different courses. It makes it nearly unplayable. Since it is a flat top, I would suggest getting a new, adjustable bridge if the action looks low to you.

http://larkinthemorning.com/product....lins_E_ (http://larkinthemorning.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_MAN089_A_Octave+Mandolins_E_)

[Steve L]

What you have appears to be a Surf City Gypsy King octave mandolin. (Not a Gypsy's Music octave mandolin!) They used to sell on ebay for $99 and they are the same ones that are in the Lark catalogue. If you googe the full name of the instrument, you'll find some discussions...most people seem reasonably happy with them. Considerable talk of fret buzzing and understringing from the manufacturer. Don't know the country of origin.

I'd try a set of GHS octave strings from Elderly and see how those work out. Good luck.

[recon]

Thanks for the help identifying the OM. Any suggestions for which adjustable bridge I might try?

[EdSherry]

With a 19" scale length, strings for a longer-scale OM are going to be pretty loose. You might want to check out one of the available string-tension calculators to find the string gauges that will give you the pitches you want at the scale length you have.

[trevor]

I would use .051 .035 .025 .014 but I can't say if it would take the tension.

[Steve L]

Trevor, in one of the discussions I saw about these, Lark told a guy these could be strung with mandola strings to mandola tuning and even sold him the strings. He tried it and the top collapsed and Lark stopped responding to his calls and emails. Better to proceed with caution on this one I'd say.

[trevor]

The scale length is too long for std mandola strings for CGDA, the tuning is possible but the strings would need to be lighter. I would use.
32 27 17 14

[Steve L]

You're right...19" for a mandola is pretty long.

[trevor]

Its not a problem to tune to CGDA up to 20" with the right strings.

[recon]

I've found out the the OM is strung with a set of GHS octave strings 12, 22, 32, 44. A smaller G string would let me have more tension. Is that correct? If I try Trevor's recommendation of 32, 27, 17, 14 can I still tune GDAE? Is that combination available as a set from one of the string manufacturers or do I just need to buy singles and find the right combination? Any further comments on trying an adjustable bridge.

I tried one of the tension calculators but was unsure which octave to select. It had choices like b-c, b'-c', b''-c''. Can anyone point me to an explanation of the notation for octaves? I realize this does not refer to OMs, but to music in general. Thanks again. The information has given me a lot to consider.

[otterly2k]

With a short scale, you need thicker strings than the GHS ones you have on there. If tuning GDAE, I'd go with something closer to Trevor's first suggestion.
My OM's are 20.5" scale and I use 14, 24, 34, 44 or sometimes 16, 24, 34, 46

if your g's are buzzing, you definitely want to beef up the gauge on those.

if you do put on thicker strings, you want to keep a close eye on what happens to the instrument... these are inexpensive OM's and there's no way to know whether the bracing or neck will stand up to the increased pressure.

[Steve L]

I might go up in gauges just on the G courses in small increments if those are the only ones buzzing. Maybe try a pair of 46s or 48s and see what happens. I've never seen one of these things, but I'm guessing they're built pretty light.

Karen, 16s on the E courses! Ouch!!!

[Bertram Henze]

Karen, 16s on the E courses! Ouch!!!
I think 16 on E is ok for 20.5".

My 21" has 15,26,39,56 gauges, and the Fylde has no problems taking the load - this is NOT meant to be a recommendation for the OP, though!

Yes, the OP... From the pictures, I'd say:

- string spacing seem to be ok.

- the bridge looks pretty flat, not sure if there's any adjustable bridges would fit.

- no truss rod cover on the headstock... is there a truss rod screw visible on the inside of the body? Is there a truss rod at all?

- present gauges are definitely small - I'd slowly increase the gauges and watch the instrument like a hawk.

- lifting the bridge with a shim is a fast and inexpensive way to find out if low action/small gauges are really the cause of buzzing. I'd try that first.

That "gravity" thing is interesting - it might be gravity acting on the neck, not the string. If that is the case, then there is something seriously wrong with the neck.

Bertram

[recon]

There is no evidence of a truss rod. I'll try the shim to see if the buzzing is eliminated.

[otterly2k]

Karen, 16s on the E courses! Ouch!!!


Hey, what can I say? It works for me.
I have a pretty heavy right hand technique, and hate it when the e course sounds thin compared to the rest... so I like to bulk up on that treble end. I wouldn't do it with a longer scale...

[zoukboy]

19" is short for OM tuning. It might do better as a mandola, but here are some tensions for a heavier set than has been discussed:

len 19"

E .016" PL == 23.05#
A, .025" PB == 22.97#
D, .037" PB == 22.79#
G,, .056" PB == 22.8#
total == 91.6#

These might work for mandola tuning:

len 19"

A .0115" PL == 21.22#
D .018" PL == 23.15#
G, .028" PB == 23.14#
C, .042" PB == 23.5#
total == 91.02#