Oval gibson 1919-20

[fishdawg40]

Hi, I just was notified of a A style Oval Gibson from 1919-1920 for sale for $1200. I can go look at it and the gentlemen selling it said it's playable (he's not a mandolin player). I've just never seen a price this low for an old Gibson. Any suggestions on what this might be? Why so inexpensive? I have no other info. Thanks

edit: he said the top isn't collapsed and the it shifted a little but is gigable. I don't know what shifted means.

[morristownmando]

There is one on ebay for $950

[Brad Weiss]

Is is an A-1 pumpkin top, like the ebay model? If it's an A-2, or an A-4 it could be worth considerably more than $1200. #The one for $950 may play and sound great, but the finish is in pretty lousy shape, so it's bound to reduce the value. I paid a good deal more for an A-4 in ex. shape of that era; a quick look for a similar model at the usual locations suggest it was a good deal. Play it and see if you like it, and can afford it. If so- it's a good deal.

[fishdawg40]

It looks very similar to that mandolin. And this one too 1916 A-3 (http://www.vintagemandolin.com/16gibsona3_31240_fon3153.html). I played it and am in love with the sound. I've wanted and oval for a while now. The only problem is that the back of the mandolin, where that peak type thing meets the neck, is not connected to the mandolin. It's coming off just a sliver though. My next question is. What's the risk? I'm assuming that no one can tell me that. The sound is just what I'm looking for so it's gonna be hard for me not to pull the trigger. But I will practice restraint if this is a major problem and I don't know it. For the record I was banging the heck out of it and the mandolin took it well. Great sound, love it to death... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[mrmando]

It's called a seam separation, and you need to get it fixed. How easy or hard it is to fix (and, therefore, how expensive) will depend on what caused it and how long it's been that way.

Is there any binding on the back of the instrument?

What color is the instrument? Pumpkin, brown, black, white, red, sunburst?

Did you check the label to see what model it is? And what's the serial number?

$1200 is too much to pay for a teens A or A1 with a seam separation, methinks. If it's an A3 or A4, then that's probably a good deal. Might even be a decent deal for an A2. And to make a broad generalization, serial numbers between 60,000 and 80,000 (1919-1927, roughly speaking) are more desirable than serial numbers outside that range.

[fishdawg40]

I can't rememeber 100% but I'm pretty sure there is binding on the back. As for the color it's pumpkin. Looks like the one in the link in my previous post. And all the writing on the label is faded and I can't tell a thing.

I made an offer for $1000, is that price good? He's gonna get back to me (the mandolin is on consignment) But then again I'm thinking twice if the mandolin needs repair, and possibly an expensive repair.

Thanks for the help.

[fishdawg40]

I'm gonna have to say that it is a 17-18 A-1 after looking at some photos. And if there is structural damage it's probably not a good deal or am I wrong? The buy it now on the ebay listing above is $950 and there is no damage. Or so it says.

[mrmando]

Well, if it's bound on the back, it's not an A1 ...

Is there any inlay on the headstock, other than "The Gibson"?

Experts: are the following specs correct? I think they're close.

A: plain headstock, no back binding
A1: "The Gibson" headstock, no back binding
A2: "The Gibson" headstock, back binding
A3: "The Gibson" & vine inlay on headstock, back binding
A4: "The Gibson" & fleur-de-lis on headstock, back binding, Handels pre-1918, extended fretboard post-1915 (but I doubt there are many pumpkin A4s; they're usually black or sunburst)

If it is a minor seam separation, it probably just needs to be reglued, which is a fairly straightforward repair. If, however, the back has shrunk away from the binding or the sides are misshapen, then the repair gets more involved. Good photos might help. Or you could ask if you can get a repair estimate.

I think $1,000 is not bad if a minor seam separation is the only issue. It's a bird in the hand; you like the sound; etc. I take exception to the idea that the eBay mandolin has no damage: the finish is all messed up on the bass side near the tailpiece. Probably not a structural issue, but it does affect the instrument's value.

How about hardware? Does it have a pickguard? Is the binding all there and tight, and uniformly yellowed? (White binding is probably a later replacement.) Yellowed ivoroid tuners with visible grain? 1-pc. nonadjustable bridge with stamped patent date? "The Gibson" script on stamped tailpiece cover?

[fishdawg40]

Wow, thanks a lot Martin! So I guess we narrowed it down to A-1 or A-2. I just can't remember %100 about the back binding... Defnitley a Gibson on the headstock and I'm pretty sure there was no design. Not sure about the back binding on the headstock. There's no pickguard and there is Gibson on the tailpiece. From what I remember the tuners seemed to be original. The frets seemed to be in good shape. There is a bunch of scratches were the pickguard used to be. But I don't mind that at all.

I will go see it on Tuesday and will bring my camera.

I really appreciate the help on this.

Joe

[mrmando]

When I say back binding, I'm talking about binding around the circumference of the instrument's back plate. Not binding on the back of the headstock. The eBay mandolin has no back binding; the A3 you linked above has back binding.

[fishdawg40]

When I say back binding, I'm talking about binding around the circumference of the instrument's back plate. Not binding on the back of the headstock. The eBay mandolin has no back binding; the A3 you linked above has back binding.
Duh. I was looking at your descriptions and ran together back binding and headstock. Though I do know what the backbinding is, thankfully.

[fishdawg40]

Well, I bought an Old Wave. Thanks for the help (Martin, I see you have one too). I figured I would go new even though the idea of an old Gibson sounded wonderful, I just didn't want to take the risk.

I made a thread in the looking for info section.

My Old Wave topic (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=13;t=54600;r=1)

[527]

You were probably ok to pass on the broken vintage Gibson.

Mandolins were fairly common in those days, and unless it was a very good bargain price (or sounded amazing), I would wait for one without repairs to come along.

It is great to own a vintage Gibson, though. Nothing really compares.