Bill monroe lore

[emitfo]

In a Gibson thread I read:


As noted in the original thread, the wood and detailing in Bill Monroe's holy grail F-5 was rather mundane looking by today's standards, even before he scraped the finish off the top and gouged out the logo.
Paul Kopatish (sp?) I think.

I googled but couldn't find any references. Sounds like a good story, yarn, tale etc. can anyone fill it out for me or put up some links? Not coming from a BG background if there are any more colloquial Monroe stories and such that would be interesting to me.

[allenhopkins]

If you have an interest in Monroe's life -- not just his mandolin -- great place to start is Richard Smith's book, Can't You Hear Me Callin' -- The Life of Bill Monroe, Father of Bluegrass (Little, Brown & Co., 2000). #An excellent biography; Smith talked to many of Monroe's family, associates, and fellow musicians. Probably in many good libraries.

[f5loar]

Early photos of the Monroe July 9th Loar show it to be in near mint condition at the time (made in '23 bought it used in '45). It had to have been in classical hands before he got it because I don't think bluegrass mandolin pickers were around at the time(duh!) and ole time mandolin pickers more than likely could not afford the F5 as they leaned more towards the round hole sound. When you see back/side photos of Monroes Loar the grain pattern is very fancy by Loar standards. So compare his to other known examples of the side bound July 9ths and I'd say his was in the same high quality as others found to date.

[MikeEdgerton]

There have been some great discussions on this in the past. Take a look at the three threads below and you'll get a sense of what took place.

Thread one (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=12;t=29886;hl=pocket+and+kn ife)
Thread two (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=12;t=47681;hl=pocket+and+kn ife)
Thread three (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=12;t=27960;hl=pocket+and+kn ife)

[JiminRussia]

Emitfo, I hate to disappoint you but no, that is not the correct spelling the correct spelling is Loart as in Lloyd Allayre Loar. Oh yo0u mean Big Mon's name. Sorry
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[cooper4205]

Emitfo, I hate to disappoint you but no, that is not the correct spelling the correct spelling is Loart
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[earthsave]

Lots of great books out there that have different perspectives on those stories. Butch Robins and Tom Ewing are two that come to mind.

[JiminRussia]

Hey cooper, it isn't polite to laugh at a keyboard challenged old man. My spelling was right, but my typing sucks!

[Bill Snyder]

lore - traditional knowledge or belief

[Paul Kotapish]

Early photos of the Monroe July 9th Loar show it to be in near mint condition at the time (made in '23 bought it used in '45). It had to have been in classical hands before he got it because I don't think bluegrass mandolin pickers were around at the time(duh!) and ole time mandolin pickers more than likely could not afford the F5 as they leaned more towards the round hole sound. #When you see back/side photos of Monroes Loar the grain pattern is very fancy by Loar standards. So compare his to other known examples of the side bound July 9ths and I'd say his was in the same high quality as others found to date.
Tom,

My comment was in response to an early thread where there was disparagement over the wood in a recent DMM F-5. The comment was that the wood in that particular instrument was rather plain looking compared to what has come to be expected in top-knotch modern F-5s.

My point was not to knock the Monroe Loar, but to suggest that Loars typically did not sport the spectacularly figured (flamed or quilted) maple that some folks think should be the par for a high-end instruments today. I would argue that there has been an unrealistic inflation of expectation about what maple should look like on a mandolin, and how that figuring relates to the overall quality of the instrument, and that many of the best Loar-style instruments being made today--including the DMM--have more subtle maple that is entirely in keeping with the Loar standard.

As for the particular story of Bill Monroe's mandolin, I've heard and read many accounts of the saga, including the one in Can't You Hear Me Callin'. Here's an excerpt from a piece on the Monroe Loar by Jim Hatlo (senior editor for Frets for many years) in Tom Ewing's excellent anthology reader The Bill Monroe Reader.

[i]Ten years after Monroe bough no. 73987, it returned to the Gibson factory in Kalamzoo, Michigan. Monroe shipped the instrument back to undergo some repairs. The neck had been broken in an accident, and the F-5 also needed refretting, refinishing, and a new set of tuning keys. Monroe was without the mandolin for four long months, and when it finally arrived from Gibson, he was furious to discover that only the neck replacement had been done.

Angrily he took a penknikfe and scraped the inlaid “Gibson” logo from the headstock. (Some accounts say that Gibson did refinish the instrument, but not to Monroe’s satisfaction, so he scraped the finish off as well.) For nearly 30 years after that incident, the country’s most prominent mandolinists turned a cold shoulder toward Gibson.[\i]

For the full story, read both books. It's fun.

Standing ready to stand corrected . . .

Just one guy's opinion.

[Chiledog]

Mike,
Thanks for posting the 3 links. Those threads were very interesting!

Todd

[danb]

From the horse's mouth, originally posted by Bruce Harvie:

Bill Monroe tells the story of 73987 (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/audio/73987/73987_monroe_mandolin_story.mp3)

[MikeEdgerton]

From the horse's mouth, originally posted by Bruce Harvie...
That's incredible.

[danb]

From the horse's mouth, originally posted by Bruce Harvie...
That's incredible.
Gives me the heebie jeebies when I hear it. I like that clip, it's a good reminder of the difference between lore and fact! Even though this is Bill himself speaking, he's telling a story more so than relaying events like a journalist.

I like to listen through this now & again to remind myself not to be too eager to speculate and fill in the facts!

[Joel Spaulding]

Thanks for that, Dan! Truly wonderful.

[MikeEdgerton]

I like his matter-of-fact way of speaking and it's apparent that the audience is pretty familiar with at least some of the story when you hear them laugh. Great clip.

[Jkf_Alone]

I'd love to hear more of Mr. Monroes stage talk and story telling. I never got the chance to see him while he was alive.

[evanreilly]

Here is another snip of WSM live; here he talks about keeping time: tap foot (http://theworld.com/~ereilly/tap_foot_time.mp3).

[Zigeuner]

Bill Monroe certainly had an effect on me. I was fortunate to see him and his group at the Ash Grove Music Hall in Los Angeles, California. I can't remember exactly when, maybe in the early 1960's. I recall that the mandolin that he played was a Gibson F and I'm not certain whether he had trimmed off the Gibson logo at that time. I'm reasonably certain that it had to be before 1964 because, after seeing him play, I was overcome with the desire to own a mandolin. I finally settled on a new 1964 Martin A mandolin for $84.50. It was a chunk of change to me at the time and I didn't even ask how much an F model was since I didn't have the money.

What a wonderful show he put on. His voice was very high and pure sounding. I felt that I was looking back somehow to an earlier day. I think that anyone with some feeling for music had to be moved by his abilities. I'm still thanking him for opening up yet another facet of music for me. Bill Monroe was the real deal. A very sincere man with his music.

I still have the little Martin A and I think of him every time I play it. So I guess there is some conection between Bluegrass and the Model A, at least for me.

[evanreilly]

Bill played the Ash Grove in 1963. I believe he was out there two weeks. Some of the live recordings that made it onto the two Smithsonian CDs are from that period. IIRC!

[Zigeuner]

Bill played the Ash Grove in 1963. #I believe he was out there two weeks. #Some of the live recordings that made it onto the two Smithsonian CDs are from that period. IIRC!
It could very well have been 1963. I recall I was at UCLA at the time and I bought the Mandolin a few months later in early 1964.

One interesting thing that I recall from the show that I saw was the difficulty that the guitar player had with his guitar. He managed to break his high "E" string twice. The first time, the string was replaced during a break and the second time, he carried on with 5 strings. Each time, he caused the Master to frown at him.

I think that it was more amusing to the audience than to Bill Monroe.