An apology

[Gary Hedrick]

I want to apologize for the intensity of my posts about Gibson quality. I was too intense in trying to make my point for a written means of communication.

I'm sorry if I defamed anyone and certainly do think that Gibson makes good mandolins.

[Chris Biorkman]

We still love you. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Ken Olmstead]

We still love you. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I agree. You voiced an opinion and folks responded. I think my first topic that I started was eventually locked down. I was mortified!! I had no idea what I was getting myself into! But these folks are understanding and we all enjoy the community and input that everyone brings. The moderators are great at dropping a hint when the thread is on the margin. Pay attention to what they are saying and you can pretty much feel your way through the conversation.

[Bernie Daniel]

I thought your opinion was as valid as mine - just opposite! #

By the time it was locked down everyone had had there say and we were repeating our arguements -- good time to end it as well.

Did I leave anything out I could also agree with?

[jim_n_virginia]

dang it I missed all the action again! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

big of you to appologize most don't.

[tree]

big of you to appologize most don't.
Or, they try, but their effort falls a bit short.

A sincere apology like this one elicits respect from me. It is a simple thing, but very difficult to do well.

Nice job, Gary.

[Hans]

Gary, you did have a valid question, but probably not a good idea to involve specific builders...especially ones with large wallets and lots of lawyers. ##
As far as your point about flamed maple backs, I have several comments. Since a pix of one of my instruments was used as an example, I feel justified.
Steve had it just right when he noted that pix of flamed maple backs change the flame with different angles. The pix of the instrument with the void in the flame might actually not have that void from a different view of the back. It's wood, not formica.
The pix of my instrument actually has a very flamed back, it's just pretty subdued. From another angle, it is very well flamed.
Another very large factor of the particular back you were talking about was that it was a quartersawn back. I think voids will show up more on quartered backs. It's just harder to find a perfect quartered back. Many also have shimmering streaks through the flame and that is no reason to discount the quality of the back.
Sometimes it's very hard to judge a plank of maple before it's carved. You can wet it with water or alcohol, and it may look pretty good, but after it's carved and sanded, the flame changes.
Finally, some builders "enhance" the flame on their backs by using nasty chemicals or staining the back black and then sanding it back before applying the sunburst. Others (including me) don't and I don't believe Loars were enhanced that way. Also, every piece of maple is different, and some display the flame better than others when finished.
All said, what matters most is the tonal quality and graduation of the back. Granted, for a 25-30 thousand dollar instrument one might expect a pretty nice back, but in the end, tonal qualities of the instrument are most important.
Apologies are always good. # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Joel Spaulding]

Gary, T'is all good. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif #I may have come down as sounding a bit harsh in my reply and if I did, I humbly apologize.

Back to pickin! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

Peace,
Joel

[kestrel]

Hmmmmmm, Formica mandolin backs? Now there's an idea. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Paul Kotapish]

I thought that the discussion brought up an interesting aspect of mandolin building that is not in the general consciousness. To wit, that highly figured maple and careful bookmatching were not necessarily top criteria for instruments built under Lloyd Loar's regime at Gibson, and that many of the finest vintage--and modern--mandolins built do not necessarily feature what we would designate as eye-candy wood today.

I know that many of Steve Gilchrist's meticulous Loar-style mandolins, for example, have rather unspectacular looking wood on the backs but sound spectacular nonetheless. As noted in the original thread, the wood and detailing in Bill Monroe's holy grail F-5 was rather mundane looking by today's standards, even before he scraped the finish off the top and gouged out the logo. Nobody is going to argue about the sound of that distressed beauty, though.

It also seems to me that Gibson can handle whatever heat gets dished their way from this end. It's always been a quirky company with marketing and sales policies and quality-control issues that seem strangely at odds with the often-unparalleled excellence of their instruments. I am a big fan of Gibson's instruments, but there is ample reason for end users to ask questions about the company itself.

Just one guy's opinion.

PK

[Scott Tichenor]

Agree there's reason for this community to question building practices, but it should be done so in a manner that respects the builder in question, regardless of their name, how large or small their staff may be, or where they're based. The thread in question was not respectable and was slowly disintegrating into a mud throwing contest. Again, we think engaging in discussions about these matters healthy, but only when done so in a fashion so that it doesn't amount to personal ax grinding. Gary's post is gracious, and we should let it remain as such instead of carrying on further.

[Bill Snyder]

Hmmmmmm, Formica mandolin backs? Now there's an idea. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Like this one?
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/uploads/post-15-97087-upload2.jpg
Of course it is not really Formica, as that is a brand name. It is WilsonArt's product, a company that is a much larger producer of high pressure laminate than Formica.
Martin and Taylor both use HPL in some of their budget guitars.