There is a thread about that

[Soupy1957]

"Repetition" has always been promoted by any teacher I've had, in any subject I've taken.

Seems that by repeating what has already been stated, read, or taught, the pupil seems to absorb it better.

In teaching various classes over the years, on various subjects, I have learned to approach the planning of the classes in such a way as to present the information in a variety of ways, to get the point across.

Power Points, verbal discussion, examples,class quiz's, all working together to repeat the information and help the student retain what is being presented.

So the next time you "regulars" (reading threads in here for years and who are mandolin professionals) are reading a thread, and you have so much experience with the data or question that you grow impatient and stick a blurb in there like "this has been covered before," how about simply saying, "That's a great question!! Here's a link to a thread that may help you." (Instead of the rather "in your face" kind of comment like, "That's been covered.....here's the link." Which sounds like you're saying, "go away kid, ya bother me!")

"Repetition" is good, and SOME of us need it, ok?! There are folks like me, who appreciate a kind word, a gentle approach, a patient and caring response. Lord knows "I" NEED the repetition, to get it through MY thick skull!

In some ways, I'd rather see repeat threads on a subject, that perhaps might shed some new light on a subject, than to have to constantly refer back to the archives. A fresh thread affords an opportunity for a fresh approach.

Submitted NOT by a "saint" but rather the chiefest of idiots......as respectfully as I can,



-Soupy1957

[Bertram Henze]

Don't know if this glass shoe fits my foot - I have thrown in links to older threads quite a few times. I apologize for any cases where this looked unfriendly or condescending; it probably was just tongue-in-cheek irony then.

Of course, there is nothing that hasn't been discussed before, so consequent archive search would make the Cafe screech to a halt. Nobody wants this, and I refer to other threads only to widen a current topic, not to stomp it to death. I am with the OP to the extent that putting a problem or a solution into different words can open up insights that were closed before - so keep'em coming.

Bertram

[groveland]

Actually, there has been a thread on this (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=12;t=48610;hl=thread+and+se arching).



http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Sorry - You know I just had to say it!

[devilstone_the_bard]

Actually, there has been a thread on this (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=12;t=48610;hl=thread+and+se arching).



http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

You know I just had to say it.
Absolutely hilarious!

Aside from that, things change. not to start a separate debate, but:

Airline laws are changing weekly it seems, so when someone asks *again* about flying with an instrument, I think it's good. The search will tell you what used to be good.

The quality of Kentucky & Eastman mandolins has improved a lot in the the last 2 years - opinions may change.

The shape of the Dawg pick has slightly modified recently - opinions will change.

There are constantly new angles to old questions. I do think if there was a 9 page discussion about 'theory' last week, it may not need to be started again, but other times it makes sense to revisit an old topic.

Bravo Soupy, I say Bravo!

just my 3 cents.

dan

[MikeEdgerton]

This is very simple. If the discussion is about a fluid item, such as flying that changes weekly, then those discussions need to be current. If the discussion is about Bill Monroe's Ibanez then it seems silly to simply repeat the process without referring to earlier threads. Not using the archived data available here is like going to the library and reading the daily newspaper for research instead of going into the reference section and reading the encyclopedia. You're using half the resource.

To be honest I would expect this thread to have a short life. It's been beat to death and is one step above trolling.

[devilstone_the_bard]

Mike, I agree, and I feel the moderators usually go a great job of deciding when to let a topic run and when to say "look it up fool!" - Monroe's Ibanez is a great example. I think maybe the "look it up fool" should be left to the moderators and not the rest of us?

[farmerjones]

My take FWIW:
Sometimes the search feature works sometimes not. It's not the search engines fault, but usually how i approach the issue. Myself, I have to hand it to Mike E. he's an asset to the Caf'e in the highest sense. If you think of the Caf'e as a tool for research and learning, how you get to the answer faster is better. That's just it, i think of a mandolin as a tool as well. Just because i use tools in my hobby does not diminish them as tools either. A good tool, is a good tool. Do helpers make a better tool? i think so.

[pickloser]

I have almost posted this same comment. #I think a link to a previous thread is always welcome, provided that it is not accompanied by the written equivalent of a great big sigh, rolling of the eyes, and a tutting noise. #Links are often offered this way, however, and there also seems to be the implication that "now that I've shown you the link to the previous discussion, you folks should stop discussing this again right this minute. #I think more experienced mandolinists/cafe posters must tend to forget how excited they were about everything mandolin when they started out. #Sometimes people just want to talk about anything related to this wonderful little instrument. #Beat a dead horse? #Sure. #Just try and get good tone.


Oh yeah, and this is the Mandolin "Cafe", which seems to imply a certain laid back let's talk it over vibe. If it was the Mandolin Library, then all the shushing from other patrons would be more appropriate.

[MikeEdgerton]

The cafe has always allowed dead horses to be beat. A perfect example are threads about picks. Threads about strings. Threads about what mandolin does a beginner buy. I just did a quick search using pick as the keyword in all forums this month and newer, titles only. Two pages come up. Some of those threads are for pickups, some are for picking, but the majority discuss picks. Nobody stops those discussions even when there are multiple discussions that basically cover the same subject. Keep in mind that is simply discussions taking place in the last week or so. There are times however when we've had discussions that have resulted in locked down threads after the discussion just got out of hand. Nobody should expect a follow up thread that pops up the next week to have a long life. It just isn't going to happen.

[Gutbucket]

You can whip a dead horse, but it ain't gonna run any faster. Or so my grandpa said. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[pickloser]

The horse won't mind. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

[hoffmannia2k7]

Mike, we come on here to talk and discuss and referring to this activity of the Cafe members as beating a dead horse is really rude I feel.

This is a message board, there is interaction, and although there is a wealth of information already on the board, it is a living thing. Although the option to search a topic is available, not everybody is going to do a full search function before they post, the world doesn't work that way.

Bravo to Soupy for bringing up the "bad tone" that many mandolin discussers use when searching for "good tone."

[Tim]

I remember at least once when I used the "look it up" with the rude tone and felt justified. #It was replying to a message that said "I'm sure the answer is already here but I'm too lazy to search". #I searched and counted clicks/keystrokes and provided the count but not the results.

That was a rare case.

When I was trying to teach myself how to read music I had a couple of different books and if I didn't understand one explanation I'd go to the other one. #That is the best case for repeating a thread versus the search.

[bradeinhorn]

anyone ever try the "tone-gard"?

[Oliver R]

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[MikeEdgerton]

Mike, we come on here to talk and discuss and referring to this activity of the Cafe members as beating a dead horse is really rude I feel....
I'm sorry you feel that way. Unfortunately it's a common term used here and elsewhere to describe what happens here and elsewhere. If you do a search using that same term you'll find many pages of threads that use the term going back to the inception of the cafe. I really don't think that all those cafe members that use that term were rude.

[pickloser]

Yes, actually. #I recently acquired a Tone Gard after reading many recommendations of it on the Cafe. #It works great--just as advertised. #It was on my Ratcliff at a jam last night. #A guy with a great sounding Gibson asked to try it out. #It made his great sounding Gibby sound even better. #Our jaws dropped in astonishment. #(I'm not making this up to make a point.) #

See, it's very easy. #Just a sentence or two. #No snide remarks. #And if you don't want to read the thousandth discussion of Tone Gards--dont. #If you see "Tone Gard", don't click on the thread. #If someone hadn't brought up the Tone Gard for the 999th time, I wouldn't have known about it. #I wouldn't have searched for it, not even having been aware something like it existed.# http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[mandopete]

Yeah, since the search function works so well this almost never happens.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Sorry, but I don't see what all the fuss is about. #If new people want to talk about subjects that have been discussed in the past, who cares?

[bienkow1]

Sorry, but I don't see what all the fuss is about. #If new people want to talk about subjects that have been discussed in the past, who cares?
I agree, if you see the subject of a new post is "Best beginner mandolin?", don't read it. It's your choice.

[pjlama]

just my 3 cents. #

dan
Must be inflation huh? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Bill Snyder]

I frequently refer people to old threads on subjects. I don't mean to be rude, I feel it helps get them the answers they are looking for. I almost always post links to the threads I think will be helpful instead of just telling them to Search For It. Sometimes the old threads contain information that does not come up in the new thread. Of course there are times when the new thread allows a topic to be added to.
It is all useful, and of course Soupy is right, a kind word when refering someone to old threads beats a snide remark every time.

[mandroid]

Those that don't learn from History, are Doomed to repeat it.
(it came to mind, sorry} http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[Jim Broyles]

What I think would be very useful is a way to "sticky" certain threads or topics, such as ones on picks, strings, pick grip, straps, cases, bridges, tailpieces, etc. Also, a "statistics" category for the board where one could go to see which topics were the most read or had the most responses would be a great resource. I would also like to see a "New to the Cafe? Please Read:" sticky linking FAQ threads.

[MikeEdgerton]

Those are all good ideas Jim.

[mandroid]

A spread sheet .. of brand, model on one side , and how much $$..
across the top of the grid would be handy too..

[Paul Kotapish]

As a lifelong fan of old-time fiddle music, I live by the motto:

Repetition Is the Spice of Life

And it's is the life blood of a vibrant message board. New members ask questions that are new for them, and while a polite reference to previous threads is entirely appropriate, there's nothing wrong with letting the familiar question engender a fresh discussion.

I find that every time we collectively respond to what some might consider a hackneyed topic starter, we get a lot of new angles on the idea and some fresh input. Lot's of online message boards wither and die when the stalwarts check out on new discussions of old topics.

Just one guy's opinion.

[Gutbucket]

Isn't a topic about bringing up old topics, already an old topic? It's like holding up a hand mirror to another mirror. The reflection goes on to infinity.

[man dough nollij]

I have been guilty of starting threads on topics that have been covered ad nauseam (like the one on "opening up" and "breaking in"). I appreciate it when moderators and other cafe members with superior searching skills can drag up old threads and post links to things I couldn't find. I'm still getting the hang of the quirky search engine-- it seems to be very case-sensitive. I searched "beating AND dead AND horse" and only found this thread... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Soupy1957]

"Thanks" to one and all again, for spending some considerate time on the subject.

I'm glad that most of you get the point that I was trying to make, that a little patience goes a long way.

The point about "remembering what it was like to be a newbie" is valid. I'm STILL one.....without a doubt.

-Soupy1957

[Rick Cadger]

As a lifelong fan of old-time fiddle music, I live by the motto:

Repetition Is the Spice of Life

And it's is the life blood of a vibrant message board. New members ask questions that are new for them, and while a polite reference to previous threads is entirely appropriate, there's nothing wrong with letting the familiar question engender a fresh discussion.

I find that every time we collectively respond to what some might consider a hackneyed topic starter, we get a lot of new angles on the idea and some fresh input. Lot's of online message boards wither and die when the stalwarts check out on new discussions of old topics.

Just one guy's opinion.
Not just one guy's opinion, Paul. I'm with that.

I think Soupy's point is a fair one.

And some people are not good with searches. If you ever read through site stats on what people type into search boxes it becomes evident that some just don't understand how search engines work.

By all means post links to earlier threads, in a friendly manner. But don't do the sighing thing.

As has been said, if you don't want to read yet another thread on a topic, then don't read it. Stay out and don't ruin it for those who do.