Aspiring songwriters unite!

[minnedolin]

Anyone have suggestions on the art of lyrical prose? What's your inspiration, your muse? What do you compose on? Do you imagine lyrics after the music or music after the words? Whats your mind spitting out these days? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[seanonabutton]

I have always written the music first, and usually the lyrics are the VERY last thing i come up with because i intertwine lyrical parts with written music with improvisation. As for good lyricists, though they don't necessarily include mandolin, check out Elliott Smith and Sufjan Stevens.

[minnedolin]

I am the other way around, once a line or two of words rise (or perhaps even one phrase) I write them down and try to find the right 'mood' for their (the words)existence. Very rudimentary, usually just majors or minors. im very 'ill-versed' with the late Elliot Smith's work, though I have been told he has some great stuff. Sufjan Stevens' Illinoise was a great album and I agree very lyrically and musically profound. Any suggestions on a good album from Elliot Smith? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[Bob Wiegers]

I recently had a burst of songwriting, although I'm still pretty new at it. I'm getting into it more and more and having a grand time.

since you asked:
for me it starts with an idea, and thinking about that idea for a couple days. maybe researching a little if it's historical (like a train wreck or mining disaster, for example -- can you tell I'm into Norman Blake lately?) then I usually come up with the lyrics in a day or so, with a definite meter in mind. sometimes I'll get a tune going in my head at the same time. I use google notebook to keep track of ideas and put stuff down in one place that I can get to at work or home. I can come back to them during the day and/or compose something during lunch or a "smoke-free" break or after the kids go to bed.

after I'm relatively happy with the words I'll try to hum a tune that will work, or perhaps refer to some instrumental noodles I've recorded in the past. then I'll get the guitar and find the chords that work and see how it goes. usually the music forces the need to adjust the words a bit. for some reason I dont find it working out on the mando (although instrumentals are the opposite -- see the link in my signature)

as for inspirations, I love Sufjan too, but I find his lyrical style too obtuse generally, although with a few shining exceptions. maybe I'm just not that smart? or maybe I like something that's more easily understood. perhaps not as poetic though. I'm into simple yet powerful: Gillian Welch (by far my fave), Buddy and Julie Miller, Norman Blake. I love Bill Mallonee (Vigilantes of Love), Glen Phillips (Toad the wet sproket) and Ben Folds too, each in different ways. I aspire to this last group, but feel more comfortable right now with the first.

as for what I've been doing, here's some rough drafts from last month:
http://bobsmusicjournal.wordpress.com/2008....johnson (http://bobsmusicjournal.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/the-tale-of-ed-johnson/)
http://bobsmusicjournal.wordpress.com/2008/03/24/one-more-breath/
http://bobsmusicjournal.wordpress.com/2008/03/18/tear-it-down/

lots more at my blog. thanks for asking :-)

[Fred Keller]

I've been known to write a song or two as well as a tune or two. I've experienced both sides: words that sound evocative that suggest music later as well as tunes that I monkey with that pick up words later. I think you need to be open to all avenues as they come to you. It's rare that I can tell myself "now I'm going to write the lyrics" and then I do. Mostly I have to adapt myself to what happens. If I'm picking away and melodies are coming easy, that's what I stay with--always recording ideas so I don't lose them--until I've exhausted that train of thought.

I think the hardest part about writing songs is the editing process. I always wind up with more cool ideas than will fit in 3-5 verses with a chorus. I spend more time paring down these thoughts to their bones and whittling away everything that doesn't help advance the main theme than I do generating the ideas themselves. I definitely have a preference for simple but strong lyric but will go with anything as long as I like how it's going.

You can hear some of the stuff I've written on our website: www.whistlepigs.com. Our new recording "Fenceline" has a bunch of mine on there. I'm grateful that the rest of my band is supportive and forgiving http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Fred

[Andrew Lewis]

I find that my best stuff comes when I hear a hook in my head and match it with some thematic lyrical ideas I've had rolling around in my head then sit down with a guitar or mandolin and flesh out the melody and chord changes that I'm hearing in my head. Work out the verse melody with just some impromptu lyrics that I spit out to get the melody working then try to move on to a prechorus or chorus idea. Lyrically I try to just let it flow in a stream of consciousness kind of way. What ends up happening is that a lyrical theme starts to arise while many of the lines interact rhythmically with the music and this is usually a good thing. It's really cool how the simple musicality of the English language (i.e. vowel and consonant sounds) can add to the hooks of songs in both rhythmic and melodic ways. I try to let this happen as much as possible. Then I'll revise various lines to hint at a narrative or provide a more complete painted image.

All that said, though, I completely agree with Fred's comment above to keep all avenues open, because sometimes songs come in different ways. I've even written a few on the banjo and I'm a terrible banjo player!

Lyrically, I think it's good to recognize where your strengths lie, too. For instance, some of us are better storytellers and some of us are better at creating evocative images and emotions without delving into a narrative. I know I'm the latter, so even when I try to create a story, I really try to bring out the images. Nature is one of my favorite sources for imagery, so I let it in but try not to go overboard with it.

[minnedolin]

Too Thoreau-esque maybe? Heard that Deroy, that's one of my most common (and obviously most tangible) inspirations, and more often than not I get carried away with descriptives and imagery, and have a hard time telling a good story. I'm working on it just by writing stuff not necessarily meant for song but maybe lo and behold some lines will find their way into a simple melody. Listening to a lot of Chris Thile and Creek as well as Tim O'brien is very inspiring and fascinating and most often will leave me feeling overwhelmed, maybe perplexed, vexed.. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[minnedolin]

I listened to Thile's "Deceiver" repeatedly and found his lyrics incredible. That album didn't seem to be very well received amongst bluegrass afficianados on the board here, but I'd say hands down--top five greatest..:D

[John Eichenberger]

Let's see . . . words, music ... music, words . . . hmmm. Sometimes it's one and then the other first. #Once in a while, they seem to come at once, a hook and a line. #Sounds like fishing. #Actually, that's finding the rest of the song. #I can't sing worth anything, but my head knows what it should sound like. #Any one else like that?

[mandomaybe]

Been songwriting for a number of years, and hope to record later this year. I've been a hack guitar player for many years, and have only used guitar for songwritng and performing (at open mics, with friends, a very occasional gig). I picked up the mando (which I don't play well at all) because of enjoying the sound of it accompanying other instruments in the folk/singer/slnogwriter stuff that I listen to (never been a bluegras fan). The fun is that now when I get together with my music buddies and everyone is picking up a guitar to play covers of singer/sonwriter stuff, I can pick out melodies, do VERY simple breaks on mando, instead of being just another guitar banging out the chords.

As for writing, my inspiration - again, on guitar - has been folks like John Prine, Greg Brown, Bill Morrissey, Guy Clark, Townes Van Zandt, the list goes on. For my money, Bill Morrisey may be the finest, most literate relatively unknown songwriter in the country.

This may belong on a separate thread, but I'm interested in hearing what songs people like that are enhanced by mando (not primarily mando songs). An example of one that I have been enjoying is "Blue Chalk," by John Gorka. A fine song, made better by very tasteful mando playing by Peter Ostroushko (spelling?)

[ApK]

I consider myself a writer, and believe I can put words together into interesting lyrics when inspiration strikes. But I stopped actively writing (creatively, anyway) long before I learned to play an instrument, so I've only actually written one or two songs, and have forgotten most of the clever phrases I came up with in my more active writing days that made me think "I'll have to remember that...it would make a good song."

So words come first for me. I try to noodle out chord progressions and rhythm figures on guitar that are interesting and properly evocative of the mood I want. I'm trying to record progression/rhythm ideas as I come up with them so I can build a collection and pick one out that matches the lyrics I'm working on.
Melodies I have to leave to someone else. Every melody that comes to me turns out to be a song I heard somewhere else.