Loyd loar copy

[ndy9691]

It is very well documented the history of Loyd Loar and his creation of the F-5 that we copy so often. It seems that November of 1922 was the beginning.
How long did it take for any competitor of Gibson or even a small shop luthier to copy this design? Who was first to copy?

[Spruce]

The mythical Epiphone Windsor?
(Late 30's)....

[Jim Garber]

The mythical Epiphone Windsor?
(Late 30's)....
Not so mythical... one showed up a year or two ago.

[Bill Snyder]

It is very well documented the history of Loyd Loar and his creation of the F-5 that we copy so often. It seems that November of 1922 was the beginning.
Was it his creation? I realize it has a longer neck and f-holes and there are some other differences than the f2 and f4 but wasn't it more of a modification of those than a new creation?

[pjlama]

Jim, you could have at least degraded the photo kind of like the famous Loch Ness monster pictures.

[Michael Lewis]

Veddy interestink!

[danb]

I have pictures somewhere of a small shop or one man show copy from the early 30's.. a friend of mine in London owns it. I'll try to dig them up.

apparently early czech copy of a k5 in the classifieds now

[HoGo]

apparently early czech copy of a k5 in the classifieds now
I'd say it was made by the seller. Not older than few years. Just my guess.

[Fretbear]

Thanks for that Epiphone Windsor, surprised it wasn't on the Tone Poems...the rosewood bridge looks massive....

[markishandsome]

There was a Windsor on one of the Tone Peoms cds (I think #2) but it was a two-point rather than scroll model. The booklet mentions that the scroll version was thought to exist, but nobody had ever seen one. A few years later the one pictured above came up.

When did Randy Wood start making Loar copies?

[Tom C]

I believe this is the one Dan is talking about....

1934 Joe Wilson thread (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=27;t=32719;hl=1934;st=0)


http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/uploads/post-15-43843-IMG_1692.jpg

[james condino]

D'Angelico made at least one nice F5 copy in the 1930s. I believe there is a photo of it in the book Acquired of the Angels by Paul Schmidt.

j.
www.condino.com

[danb]

I believe this is the one Dan is talking about....
That's it. You can see my reflection taking the picture in the window behind it http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Spruce]

Here's an early F4 "copy"....

Not quite anatomically correct, but what the hell.... #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif


http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee22/e_stamp/DCP_2669.jpg

[JEStanek]

Is that leather? Metal? Wood?!?!? I think a cowboy hat is required attire with that one, Bruce.

Wow!

Jamie

[Spruce]

It's metal.

I'd love to know more about it.
It kinda reeks of a good story....

[labraid]

cool tailpiece http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[craigw]

Tailpiece? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[woodwizard]

Looks like copper http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[Gutbucket]

Musical bedpan?http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[allenhopkins]

Musical bedpan?
No, that's the Commodium.

Check 'em out here. (http://www.keithcary.com/commodium/)

[Jim Hilburn]

What does that mandolin have to do with Loar copies?

[mandopluker]

I have a local buddy who's father made a Loar F5 copy back in the 50's -flower pot, labels and all. I will see about getting a few pics and post with some background if he will permit it. It has a big open really woody and dry tone to it.

The fit / finish is a bit rough like a lot of the older stuff as there were no web sites, prints, nor folks like the Cafe around for us to bounce things off of.

[Red Henry]

This is an interesting thread, and I wish I'd known it was going on. I know little about the very early (non-bluegrass) mandolins influenced by the Loar F-5 design, but I know something about what happened in the bluegrass world. Here are some early items, and let me know if you've heard of mandolins before these:

1. Frank Wakefield told me that when he was playing in Ohio in 1958, Jimmy Williams borrowed his Loar for a weekend, and then came back a month later with a copy. I have never seen it, and don't know where it is now.

2. Around the mid-'60s, Tom Morgan made an F-5 copy for Frank. This was described in an old Bluegrass Unlimited article, I think. Tom recently told me that the mandolin was accidentally destroyed (left on top of a car, and the owner drove away) but he still knows someone who has the neck. [Interesting that these first two copies both had to do with Frank- an iconoclast himself!]

3. In about early 1968, Randy Wood built his first copy. It was the first instrument he'd ever built, and he had never even done any significant repair work before (and he did not know Tom Morgan, and had never heard of anyone building an F-5 copy before). This, I believe, was the mandolin that touched off the modern F-5 copy revolution.

With the proliferation in bluegrass music that was starting, the demand was there, and Randy's mandolins quickly got out into the hands of Bill Monroe, Roland White, Marty Stuart, and other good players, and this gave the idea of building mandolins to many other craftsmen. Early mandolin builders such as Marion Kirk, Bob Shue, and others quickly began turning out mandolins. In fact, Bob Givens started his first mandolin when Randy Wood's #1 was only half-completed, and he worked constantly at it and finished it before Randy's was done.

There was also a builder in Virginia very early, but I have forgotten his name. By late 1968 he had already made several mandolins, I believe with a "W" logo-- his name may have been Whittington or something like that. I saw him with a mandolin for sale at Watermelon Park in 1968 or so. Anyone know more about him?

Red

[mandopluker]

Red,

I actually know where one of Tom's copies is... Played it last week. Very nice tone / feel. This is the one in my previous post I referred to -hopefully I will get an ok to post pics / sound clip for everyone.

Great info BTW, thanks for sharing it.

[mandolirius]

The 30's copy in London is the earliest one I've heard of, but there were tons of do-it-youself types with good woodworking skills around in the 20's. I'd bet there was a copy made even before that.