Singing tips for a non-singer?

[MT_player]

I've always been impressed by guys who play and sing. I've always felt like a weak singer-I guess I sing ok along with CDs in the car and such but I'd really like to improve to the point where I can sing a little harmony once in a while. Besides singing more, does anyone have suggestions for singing harmony parts?

[Folkmusician.com]

I would suggest practicing intervals... You can just sing along with the mandolin or a piano.

Such as hum.. 1-2 ,1-2, 1-2, 1-3, 1-3, 1-3, 1-4, 14-, 1-4, etc... Try all combinations. It is just like training your fingers, except there are no visuals to help you. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

The basic concept is, like the chord fingerings. Your fingers form the chord before they hit the strings. You are aiming to form the note, before you sing it.

Once you can cleanly sing the intervals without having to slide or feel your way into the note, you are good to go.

This is even more important for harmonies, since you cannot match your note to the main melody by ear.

If you can stay on pitch, you will be able to add great harmonies even without a great voice. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Jonathan Peck]

My personal experience as a non-singer is that singing harmony is harder than singing lead. I find that I get drawn to singing at the same pitch as the lead singer instead of singing my part.

I think a good practice is to play intervals and sing along. I think there's a name for this exercise but it escapes me.

major scale
Do-re-mi-fa-so-la-ti-do

seconds
do-re-re-mi-mi-fa-fa-so-so-la-la-ti-ti-do

thirds
do-mi-re-fa-mi-so-fa-la-so-ti-la-do...etc...

If you practice intervals both ascending and descending, I think it will also give you a big leg up in picking up a melody to singing songs by ear on the fly when picking and taking a break.

[Dennis Ladd]

An alternative thought: A great banjo player told my buddy Rene many years ago that most bluegrassers want to play hot leads and do a little harmony. He told Rene to learn as many classic and new bluegrass tunes as he could, sing lead on all of them as loud as he could and watch the instrumentalists and harmony singers flock around him.

He did and they gathered 'round (I sure did). He still gets the central seat in the jams parties because he knows all the songs.

Dennis

[Doug Edwards]

I'm not much a vocalist, but I can sing harmony to just about anything. Voice lessons can help. #Learning how to breathe and position your mouth can make a difference.

I read a tip on singing off your teeth. #Basically you sing the low notes as if ,"off the front teeth" and the high as if, "off the back teeth". It helps you the position your mouth the the range of the pitch. Try it, you'll be surprized.

[Rick Schmidlin]

I kinda talk my way through some songs.kinda like LEONARD COHEN.

[MikeEdgerton]

Here is the tip I only give people that have paid me hundreds of dollars for voice lessons or I have to sing harmony with. Don't feel compelled to hold out notes on the end of a phrase. If you're going to go flat, it will happen there. It's easier to handle someone just stopping than to listen to someone take a vocal nose dive.

[lespaul_79]

I like to sing like Robert Plant.... Imagine Nine Pound Hammer meets Black Dog.... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
J/K... Dont sing much.

[Rroyd]

Get some Jim and Jesse recordings and practice singing the harmony part on the duets. Don't wear headphones, as you need to hear yourself as well as you hear Jim so that you can work on being in tune as you match his notes.

[billkilpatrick]

start out with the music you're most at home with and branch out as and when you feel it's right.

[miked500]

I would add that projection is key. sing with strength, this can be difficult to do if you are not comfortable with the sound of your voice, but you sound better when projecting. Sing from your 'gut', not the tops of your lungs. Singing from the tops of your lungs, can sound kind of weak and wimpy.
Find an object across the room and sing to that object, meaning you want that object to be able to hear you clearly and fully.
just my $.02

[Mark Walker]

My voice sounds like geese #arts on a muggy day. (To quote the infamous Leo Kottke.)

So my advice is that which was given to me "...don't give up your day job." #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Seriously, I've heard 'anyone' can be 'taught' to sing. #My son can't carry a tune in a dump truck; his off-key singing makes my teeth hurt. #He played trumpet while in high school band; when they'd tune their instruments, his tone-deaf ears couldn't 'hear' if he was flat or sharp. #'Mechanically' he was able to play the notes - getting the correct valves pushed and the correct omnature (or whatever it is trumpet players do with their lips) but... Did I mention he is tone deaf? #
I can't feature anyone being able to be 'taught' to sing when they can't 'hear' if they're on key or not.

But if you can 'hear' then you've got potential! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Good luck with all the sound advice! (No pun intended...)

[aphillips]

I tell my students to watch out for spreading your vowels. Longer vowels are easier to sing through and generally have a warmer tone. An easy way to remember this is to think North/South vowels instead of East/West. Test your self with the two finger rule - have about two fingers with of space between your teeth and that should be about right for any ah aw or eh vowels. Also try to keep your tongue planted at the back of your lower teeth (not shoved there mind you) this helps people who have no idea what's going on in their mouth when they are trying to sing. Hope this helps!

[poymando]

Check this out:
Vocal Point (http://www.ibluegrass.com/bg_posting3.CFM?pr=&p__a=vocal)
If the link doesn't get you there scroll down from "home" to "vocal point"

[minnedolin]

Well if I cant sing in a key, someone else will, or If I'm bound and determined to sing that song, shift it. (the key that is) Otherwise just pick real good and don't sing. Besides, (bites lip) singing's for the birds.:D

[JEStanek]

Since no one else has suggested it I will. Join a local Chorale Group or your Church choir (if so inclined). You'll get good instruction and sing with others.

Jamie

[Tim2723]

You've really asked two questions that lead to a lot more. #If you consider yourself a weak singer, you need to address that first before you can take on harmony.

While this is only my personal experience (yours will vary), I've yet to meet a good harmony singer that wasn't a basic strong singer to begin with. #The vast majority of harmony singers I know honed their skills in church choirs or school choruses. #Barbershop quartet singing will turn you into a harmony pro very fast (you may or may not care for the genre, but it is TOUGH harmony to sing). #Group singing is where a great many good harmonizers learn to do it.

Harmony requires, more than anything, the ability to focus on yourself and others at the same time. #You have to hear all that goes on around you and hear yourself in relation to them. #Can you pick out the harmony line from your favorite recordings and replicate it? #Can you improvise harmony to a favorite tune? #Those are key skills. #Confidence is absolutely key as well. #You have to know the line you're going to sing without fishing for notes or sliding into them. #It helps to think of the harmony as simply a different melody, if that makes sense.

As for anyone being tone deaf, I never buy into that unless they say they are organically tone deaf. #Like color blindness, true tone deafness is a recessive congenital defect and actually quite rare. #I've sung with hundreds of people, and I've only met two actually tone deaf ones. #Most folks who call themselves tone deaf have never learned to focus and concentrate. #We constantly come across folks whose friends at the bar will say what a fine singer he or she is. #All by themeslves they sound nice, but step up to the mic and they're singing in the key of H flat. #They can't concentrate on themselves and the music at the same time.

Become a strong, confident lead singer first, and harmony will more easily come.

[Daniel Wheeler]

Man really. Just sing at the top of your lungs. Belt it out and as you get older your voice matures and if you keep at it regularly you will make yourself into some semblance of a singer. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[earthsave]

Two part harmony is much easier than three part. I can pull off two part, but you really gotta be working in harmony so to speak to do three part well. Meaning, the tenor and baritone parts should be worked out unless you can intuitively pull it off. Practice singing along with the various parts of a good bluegrass CD.

I always think of the Three Stooges, Hello, hello, hello, to keep the 1st, 3rd, and 5th interval in my head. Works most times.

Also, your mando is in 5ths, so learning to check tuning that way helps you ear. My ear is still not good, but much better than it used to be.

[pasturepicker]

You can't sing harmony if you can't hear harmony. Spend a lot of time listening to the individual parts on recordings. The baritone part is the toughest to pick out of the mix.

[GVD]

Two part harmony is much easier than three part

The baritone part is the toughest to pick out of the mix.

Very true and the baritone is usually the hardest one to do properly. The best way to work out 3 part harmonies is by first working out the lead and tenor. Then and only then try adding the baritone.

Another good thing to do is break the chorus down into #small phrases. Much like you would do when learning to pick a new song. Start at the beginning and don't go to the next phrase until you perfect the first one.

One last tip I learned form Doyle Lawson is "The lead singer is always right". In other words you must phrase your part exactly like the lead or it won't sound right. Whether the lead is pronouncing a word a little differently or extending a syllable longer than the way you think it should be done doesn't matter. If you're not all doing it exactly alike it won't sound good.

GVD

[Eddie Sheehy]

I don't normally sing...let me rephrase that; I don't sing normally - kinda like the mating call of a rusty file. But, when I'm playing and drinking you can't shut me up caterwauling. Strangest thing, since everyone else is drinking I always get complimented on my singing. So there's the secret...LUBRICATION!

[Walter Newton]

Seriously, I've heard 'anyone' can be 'taught' to sing. My son can't carry a tune in a dump truck; his off-key singing makes my teeth hurt. He played trumpet while in high school band; when they'd tune their instruments, his tone-deaf ears couldn't 'hear' if he was flat or sharp. 'Mechanically' he was able to play the notes - getting the correct valves pushed and the correct omnature (or whatever it is trumpet players do with their lips) but... Did I mention he is tone deaf?
Great advice about teaching those who've unfortunately been written off as "tone deaf" from Pete Wernick here (http://www.drbanjo.com/instructional/instruct04-m-sing.html).

(PS the word is "embouchure".)

[MadisonBRG]

I consider myself a non-singer who has recently found his way to singing – bluegrass at least. Here are my thoughts.

1. Just double the lead singer – some of the other replies here have taken a very literal def of harmony, but a lot bluegrass—especially at open jams—just comes down to “helping out on the chorus.” Same melody, just pitched above or below the lead.

2. Lower (eg, baritone) is probably a better target when starting. If you are “straining” or “trying to sing” you won’t make it. Think Doc Watson, not John Duffey

3. Find some keys that work for you. For me it was B, C, D keys that naturally fit my ear (all of sudden I was singing on pitch). Tunes at jams are often called in “G” which is a tough key for a lot of people. Call (or wait for) a key that plays to your strengths.

4. Find some simple jam tunes – Foggy Mountain Top, New River Train, etc – and practice. I thought that one should just be able to sing “naturally” but it’s an instrument and must be trained.

5. Your voice is a muscle that needs to be built up. Practice singing so that have strength and flexibility, just like runner’s strengthen their legs.

6. Bluegrass doesn’t require much by way of singing, especially at jams. Think of John Hartford. Stay on key and timing and people will follow you through most any song.

[Klaus Wutscher]

1. Just double the lead singer – some of the other replies here have taken a very literal def of harmony, but a lot bluegrass—especially at open jams—just comes down to “helping out on the chorus.” Same melody, just pitched above or below the lead.

2. Lower (eg, baritone) is probably a better target when starting. If you are “straining” or “trying to sing” you won’t make it. Think Doc Watson, not John Duffey
I respectfully disagree with the above statements. While it is good practice to sing along in unison with the lead singer at home, I wouldn´t do it at jams. It just makes it harder for the singer(s), and the whole thing can get too loud quick. unless it´s 3.30 am and everybody is in the cup and whatnot.....


While the lower register is more comfortable to sing, it is also harder to sing on pitch, harder to hear yourself and baritone parts can get real tough to sing. Start with lead or easy tenor parts.

I firmly believe that EVERYBODY can sing. Heck, even I can http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif . Funny how being able to sing parts increases your demand as a musician. I don´t consider myself a good singer, but I can sing harmony ok. The band I´m in for the last couple of years don´t need my mandolin playing (it´s welcomed, but they could have hired any insrumentalist, to be honest). I have the gig because I can sing harmony. Funny that I got the job for the one thing I take pride in the least http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif .


But above all, singing should be fun. Don´t put too much pressure in it, the pressure comes anyway as soon as you sing on stage.

So after all, if you feel like singing along in a jam, just do it. But make sure to wait until everybody had a glass or two.

[mdlorenz]

I agree tha tdoubling the melody isnt' the right way to go. if you're even a hint off pitch it'll sound muddy.

I have an easier time not straining my voice to sing baritone harmonies, but like Klaus said, I have an easier time singing on pitch (er.... finding the harmony) when I sing tenor. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[sunburst]

Some interesting stuff here, but a lot of it doesn't apply to all people.

Since childhood, I've always been able to hear pitches and sing in tune. That's just a natural ability that I was lucky enough to have. I could sing lead as for into life as high school, but never after that because I can't reach the notes. I can't sing along with the radio, the songs always go higher than my range. I had trouble singing bass in choirs because the bass parts went higher than my vocal range. Bluegrass lead is simply out of the question for my voice and tenor is something I can't imagine! I can certainly relate to the frustration I hear in John Hartford's "False Hearted Tenor Waltz".
Turns out, however, I'm a natural harmony singer, so for me, all this talk about harmony singing being harder than lead singing and baritone being the hardest harmony is totally opposite of my own experience.
I don't like the sound of my own voice alone, but blending with other singers comes easily, and my low range works with baritone vocals. Baritone parts to songs in B put me at the very top of my range, and the top of a singers range is where that Bluegrass vocal sound comes from.
So, I'm someone who can't play and sing by himself, who can't sing along with the radio, who can't lead a jam session, but has been told by several singers that he's the best baritone singer they've ever sung with. You don't have to be a good singer to be a good harmony singer, you just have to hit the notes, sing in time with the lead singer, phrase with the lead singer, and blend with the other singers.

[tree]

Sounds like I'm fairly like John, except with a higher range, less raw talent, and a tendency to get a little "pitchy" on occasion. #It creeps me out to hear myself try to sing lead. I just don't have the charisma to sell a song, with a couple of minor exceptions. #I started singing Beatles harmonies (mostly because I could) in grade school and have sung barritone in church choirs most of my life (which has helped me read music to the small extent that I do). #"Blends well with others" is mostly what I try to do.

[Keith Erickson]

Since no one else has suggested it I will. Join a local Chorale Group or your Church choir (if so inclined). #You'll get good instruction and sing with others. #

Jamie
Boy did you nail it Jamie and you beat me to it http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I would also like to add that I ran into the same issue during Lent 2007. Our parish priest laid down the law that there will be no instruments during Lent. Only voices would be permitted. The advice about singing for non singers that I had received here at the Mandolin Café was so helpful.

I'm not the best singer in the world, but the info that I had received from my thread was priceless and gave me the confidence to particpate vocally.

Now if I can only play mandolin and sing or walk and chew gum at the same time, I would be fine http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[MadisonBRG]

In deference to Klaus and the other singers – you are singers and are justifiably proud of your ability. But you can sing. The original poster can’t (or rather doesn’t yet know that they he can), just like me.

Some of the advice here – start singing barbershop, wait until everyone has had a few drinks, join your church chorus—are terrifying prospects to someone who is just starting to screw up the courage to sing in front of others. It’s the kind of exclusionary advice that scared me and held me back for years.

It’s a chorus -- as in “a group of persons singing in unison.” The more people discover the joy of singing and playing together—the better we are all.

And, as with everything in jam – don’t do it on every tune; whether it’s your killer g-run, your new banjo roll, that diminished chord you love, that mandolin fill.

But don’t wait. Let the bird out of the cage.