Sam bush mandolin from bill monroe

[fatt-dad]

At the church retreat this weekend a fellow told me in no uncertain terms that he knows for a fact that Sam Bush owns a mandolin that was once owned by Bill Monroe. I doubted this, but he was so sure of himself that I just figured I'd ask you guys. Any ideas whether this is true? I know that Bill's famous F5 is in some museum. I also know that he had another Loar and likely a few other mandolins somewhere in his life.

Oh well, just trying to learn about this rumor. . .

f-d

[Scotti Adams]

Sam owns Jethro Burns' old Gibson mando. Ive never heard or read anything thing to your buddys claim.

[fatt-dad]

Sam owns Jethro Burns' old Gibson mando. Ive never heard or read anything thing to your buddys claim.
Scotti, Now that you mention that, I seem to recall hearing it in the past. Maybe that's the confusion.

Thanks for the feedback.

f-d

[evanreilly]

I think not!!!

[JEStanek]

Here's the page on Gibson.com (http://www.gibson.com/backstage/200606/sambush2.htm) where Sam talks about Jethro's mandolin...

Jamie

[Trey Young]

to get slightly on a tangent, I've heard tale that Sam Bush was the one who had dibs on the Loar A-5 back when Tut Taylor owned it, and the fact that it wasn't offered to Sam first was not well received...coming from a pretty reliable source... since we're tellin what's there to be told...

[kudzugypsy]

i've heard the old LL A-5 tale also for years...BUT - i dont really think Sam was even in the position at that point in time (early 70's) to pay the money that mandolin was going to bring. Tut LOVED and WORSHIPED that A5 mandolin, and he had more Loars go thru his hands than probably anyone at that time (remember, he was the T in GTR, which later became Gruhn Gtrs). i dont know the price it sold for, but i would bet it was for a good bit more than what an F5 was going to bring. Tut ONLY sold that mando because he got in financial trouble with deals like buying the Grammer Guitar Co and other business deals that put financial pressure on him. there has to be *some* truth to the deal, but i dont think *promised* is the right term.
Lets just say that Sam & the NGR were probably just barely getting from gig to gig financially - even in the 80's after some success, they were still traveling around in an old converted airport van.

[evanreilly]

Well, it may be for the better that Sam didn't obtain the Loar A-5 from Tut. That precluded it from suffering some "...random hippie sanding...." to improve the tone.

[MikeEdgerton]

Who has that A-5 now?

[earthsave]

Nah, hippies dont generally sand, they'd paint something like sunflowers on it.:p

[Trey Young]

I've been told who owns the A-5 now, I didn't recognize the name. I believe I was told he is more of a collector than player...this is coming from my recollection of a conversation that happened almost 2 years ago...

[minnedolin]

That last post brings to mind a question I'd pondered for awhile (not aloud mind you) "At which point did bluegrass pickers go from clean shaven, Gospel-fed suits to dew-soaked barefooted freaks?" I meant that in a loving, kind-spirited way. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Trey Young]

First off, I wouldn't say there was ever a switch so to speak. #I think you can find both types of musicians and both types of fans (and probably alot that don't fit into either category). #To answer the question though, if I had to pick a point, I'd say John Hartford and the Aero-Plain album/band would be a good starting point...Hartford sure is great...

[Steve Cantrell]

That's pleasant.

[craigw]

I've been told that the person who now owns the LL A-5 was a prominent (and darn good) Bluegrass player on the West coast several years ago but now lives in another state and doesn't get out much. I've been told he doesn't wish information about him and the mandolin to be made public and I will respect that.

[woodwizard]

Sam Bush probably owns several more mandolins not mentioned. He told me once after a show that besides his regular Sam Bush models he owns he also has a blond Sam Bush model that Gibson gave him. ... Oh by the way Sam just had a birthday this past week. I know this because I am 11 days older than him. Happy Birthday SAM! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[45ACP-GDLF5]

Sam Bush probably owns several more mandolins not mentioned. He Told me once after a show that besides his regular Sam Bush models he owns he also has a blond Sam Bush model that Gibson gave him.
On Sam's DVD, "On The Road" you can see this blonde Sam Bush Gibson in the "Behind the Scenes" section. Sam is in the recording studio with it recording "On The Road" It sounds as good as the standard Signature Model that Gibson makes.

I asked him about it in Cullowhee, NC last Sept. and he said that he told Gibson to build it to the same specs as Hoss. Specifically the braces. It looks great on the DVD!

[Matt the Mead Maker]

Well, it may be for the better that Sam didn't obtain the Loar A-5 from Tut. #That precluded it from suffering some "...random hippie sanding...." to improve the tone.
Sam didn't do the sanding - it was that way when he got it. I forgot who did it and if anyone's really curious, I could find out. He talks about it on his instructional DVD set released by Homespun.

[45ACP-GDLF5]

Well, it may be for the better that Sam didn't obtain the Loar A-5 from Tut. #That precluded it from suffering some "...random hippie sanding...." to improve the tone.
Sam didn't do the sanding - it was that way when he got it. #I forgot who did it and if anyone's really curious, I could find out. #He talks about it on his instructional DVD set released by Homespun.
Norman Blake done the random sanding before he traded Hoss to Tut Taylor. Sam bought it from Tut in Jan. 1972. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[MT_player]

That last post brings to mind a question I'd pondered for awhile (not aloud mind you) "At which point did bluegrass pickers go from clean shaven, Gospel-fed suits to dew-soaked barefooted freaks?" I meant that in a loving, kind-spirited way. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Most of the barefooted folks came to hear bluegrass from listening to Jerry play banjo in Old and In the Way and also from the Garcia/Grisman albums. At least that's how this recovering Deadhead came to love bluegrass and the mandolin.
Though nowadays I wear shoes most of the time and I don't know when I was last soaked in dew. Still hate to shave http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Michael Gowell]

It's interesting that Norman Blake of all people indulged in this crude lutherie. I know he's very highly regarded in guitar circles not only for his playing but also for the depth and range of his instrument collection. #I doubt he'd take the scrapers and sandpaper to one of his precious 1930's Martin guitars - why did "Hoss" inspire this treatment?

[Trey Young]

slave to tone, not aesthetics...

[Rroyd]

The story about Sam and the A5 is true; he had been told he would have first chance if it was sold. However, he wasn't contacted when Tut sold it, and even though the times were hard, he said he would have raised the money somehow had he known. #The selling price was in the 7-8 thousand price range. And the A5 does get played regularly; it isn't spending its golden years locked away in a bank vault. The A5 Sam was playing in those early NGR years was a Randy Wood conversion, as I recall.

[fatt-dad]

First time I saw Sam Bush, he was playing an A5-style mandolin (not the LL A5, however). This was right after the NGR album came out. I saw the Old and In the Way group at a festival in the early 70s and there were plenty of country folks enjoying Grandpa Jones and Bill Monroe and hippies grooving to NGR and OAITW. Quite a mixture of folks in a waif of burning rope and Marlboros. Ah, the good old days - ha.

f-d

[bennyb]

Off topic, but related. I've only read the story, and know none of the principals(but I've been in the audience), Todd Phillips(or was it Darol Anger) removed the virzi with a screwdriver in Mike Marshall's Loar in a late night "session" in an effort to improve volume. They were happy with the results. Does that trump "random hippy sanding?"
mandozine (http://www.mandozine.com/resources/virzi.php)

bennyb

[MikeEdgerton]

When you think about it, the A-5 might be the rarest of the Loar instruments. Were there any other Loar's where there was just one model made and signed?

[Mandobar]

i heard someone call the sanding of hoss by norman "hippie sanding". it was done to increase the tone..........or so they say. i believe norman was a lot younger then and not as fond of vintage instruments. but with many players what they are looking for is the sound......that sound........that elusive sound.

chet atkins cut a hole in his d'angelico guitar for a pickup.............tony mottola wanted a local luthier (the luthier told me this story himself) to sand his d'angelico to improve the tone/sound.............yah never know.

[theBlood]

Lets just say that Sam & the NGR were probably just barely getting from gig to gig financially - even in the 80's after some success, they were still traveling around in an old converted airport van.

It could be that money was actually being made partially because they were driving in an old van.

[John Rosett]

When you think about it, the A-5 might be the rarest of the Loar instruments. Were there any other Loar's where there was just one model made and signed?
My favorite is the Mando-viola from '22

[Red Henry]

First time I saw Sam Bush, he was playing an A5-style mandolin (not the LL A5, however).

Sam was playing three mandolins on stage back then, rotating them as he broke strings. The A-model was one of Randy Wood's first converted A-50s. (I think that Doyle Lawson and Dail Moore have the others of Randy's first three conversions).

. . . .

Look up old threads here to see who got the 6 or 7 mandolins which were in the Bill Monroe estate sale in December, 2001. Murphy bought Randy Wood #3 out of the sale, and gave it to me for Christmas. It's the one I now take out and play. Nice surprise--

Red



.

[fatt-dad]

rotating them as he broke strings.
Ha! I remember there was some woman - I figured to be Sam's wife/GF - sitting behind the band just rotating the mandolins as the strings broke. I mean Sam just wooped up on those mandolins and she was a string-changing pro!

f-d

[Red Henry]

Right, she changed the strings really fast. In a club, the two of them TOSSED the mandolins back and forth from the stage.

Red

[june39]

Courtney's girl friend Hazel changed the strings. Sam's wife at that time, Kathy, ran the sound board. Sam's string breaking problem disappeared for the most part after he started changing strings before each show.

D. McCash

[mandopete]

Well, there you have it.

[SternART]

Same with Grisman......if he doesn't change strings before a show he breaks them......
best I can do is knock mine out of tune.....guess I'm not whuppin' on 'em hard enough!