Celtic music?

[Bigtuna]

Anyone have any suggestions for a good book/cd combo for celtic music?

[Jim MacDaniel]

Are you more interesting in just learning trad tunes on mandolin, or do you also want to gear up for joining sessions?

[Bigtuna]

I guess more traditional tunes. Just something that would get me started in that style of music. I'm just looking to expand my playing past bluegrass and rock stuff. I'm sure there are a few tabs on the Cafe, but I don't really know where to start?

[PseudoCelt]

Nigel Gatherer's site (http://www.nigelgatherer.com/tunes/tab.html) is a good place to start. There's a good selection of Irish/Scottish tunes in both notation and tab.

Patrick

[Jim MacDaniel]

Superb Dublin mandolinst Paul Kelly has an ITM mandolin CD/book set from Walton's Music. The arrangements are fairly simple (as opposed to his much more complex playing on his solo CD), but it is a good way to get your feet wet IMHO.

# # # #110 Irish Mandolin Tunes Vol. 1 (http://www.elderly.com/books/items/224-1379CD.htm)

There are also a great many fine trad tunes from a multitude of talented mandolinists available for download at Aidan Crossey's An Maindilin (http://www.paythereckoning.com/thepage.htm) web site, including several from some regular posters here at the mandolin cafe. (The downloads are free, but donations are accepted -- and for even a modest donation, you will get your name listed as a supporter of the web site. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif )

While there isn't sheet music available with the An Maindilin downloads, you can download ABC files for most, if not all of the tunes via the internet. Good sources for ABC downloads include The Session (http://www.thesession.org/) and JC'S ABC Tunefinder (http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/cgi/abc/tunefind). (ABC files can be viewed as standard notation via a free ABC reader, and if you have TablEdit, you can import ABC files and see them as notation and/or tab.)

[Paul Kotapish]

Hey Bigtuna,

Try this site with loads of links to online tunebooks, midi files, etc:

http://www.ceolas.org/tunes/

Here's another good online resource with loads of tunes:

http://www.thesession.org/

Much of the repertoire is notated in ABC (if you don't know about this format, just follow the links on that site) and there are also some image files of transcriptions in conventional notation. The site is a little clunky to navigate, but there is a wealth of free information there.

You should also search this site using keyword=Celtic for previous threads on "Celtic" music. There are numerous great suggestions about books, popular tunes, etc., as well as a fair amount of philosophising re the mandolin's role in trditional idioms where it is not part of the tradition.

In general, though, the best way to get a feel for any of the traditions--Irish, Scottish, Gallician, etc.--that get lumped together under the Celtic rubric is to listen, listen, listen.

My opinion is that careful, mindful listening to some of the great Irish fiddlers is the best way for a mandolinist to get into the tradition. There are scores of great players on record, but some of the most accessible for people just getting into are Kevin Burke, Martin Hayes, Frankie Gavin, Liz Carroll, Paddy Glackin, or any of the fiddlers here. (http://www.irishfiddle.com/today.html)

There are some good books and tune collections, too, but the tradition is passed on from player to player--orally and aurally--more than it is through books, and getting your ears in tune is the best way to prepare for receiving the tradition.

Good luck and have fun.

[jk245]

some more links:

Celtic/Scottish MIDI files
http://www.electricscotland.com/music/mmusiccol.htm

Scottish music and dance

http://www.geo.ed.ac.uk/home/scotland/music.html

Traditional music library

http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/


MelBay Celtic Music for Manoline
MelBay (http://www.melbay.com/product.asp?ProductID=93732BCD&Heading=Mandolin%3A+Tunebooks&category=M22&catID=221&head1=&head2=Mandolin&sub=1&sub1=&mode=browse)

MelBay Celtic Ency

Celtic Ency (http://www.melbay.com/product.asp?ProductID=98197&Heading=Mandolin+%28All%29&category=M01&catID=203&head1=&head2=Mandolin&sub=1&sub1=&mode=browse)

Mel Bay Irish Mandolin

Irish Mando (http://www.melbay.com/product.asp?ProductID=97201WW&Heading=Mandolin+%28All%29&category=M01&catID=203&head1=&head2=Mandolin&sub=1&sub1=&mode=browse)

Mel Bay airs

Aires (http://www.melbay.com/product.asp?ProductID=AD102&Heading=Mandolin+%28All%29&category=M01&catID=203&head1=&head2=Mandolin&sub=1&sub1=&mode=browse)

Mel Bay Scottish airs

Scottish (http://www.melbay.com/product.asp?ProductID=AD103&Heading=Mandolin+%28All%29&category=M01&catID=203&head1=&head2=Mandolin&sub=1&sub1=&mode=browse)

[Bigtuna]

Thanks! That should keep me busy for a while. You guys know your stuff.

[mikeyes]

Also, use the Concertina.net Convert-a-Matic (http://www.concertina.net/tunes_convert.html) by adding in the ABCs of the tunes you want to learn. If you want tab, TabLedit is better, but if you really want to learn a lot of traditional Irish tune (There are only about a zillion of them), you need to learn to read music.

[GaliBouz]

You can try also here:

http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/a....ouzouki (http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/a/phrase.html?id=51000&phrase=bouzouki)

http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/store....45.1.41 (http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/store/smp_detail.html?cart=411111145&item=5141660&lc=recs:search:SS%20v.45.1.41)

Good Luck,
GaliBouz.

[MikeB]

My opinion is that careful, mindful listening to some of the great Irish fiddlers is the best way for a mandolinist to get into the tradition.--Paul K.


Paul, would you mind elaborating a bit on this comment? I have heard that advice many, many times--about the importance of listening and 'getting the feel' of Irish Trad Music (in particular). I get that and it's something I certainly could use some more of.


But, one sticking point for me is the inherent differences between fiddle and mandolin. It seems to me that a significant portion of what good ITM fiddle player do doesn't translate well to mandolin. I'm referring, I suppose, to qualities related to bowing--legato, fingered (not picked) triplets and other ornaments.

Sometimes I just have a hard time translating a fiddle tune to the mandolin because I can't discern the specific notes (IOW, the right frets) to play on mandolin. Pipes are like that, for me, as well.


I find myself throwing in a lot of slides (into a quarter note, usually). Approaches to playing triplets on mandolin have been discussed to death here (in part by me), but I don't remember reading much advice beyond that. So, other than trying to play smooth triplets and sliding into some notes (which I can't really say I hear many ITM mando players doing), I could use some more guidance on this stuff.

What techniques, specifically, does a mandolin player use to get that traditional--or authentic--sound?

[Paul Kotapish]

Mike,

I replied to this in the other thread on this topic, but here's a repost:


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTE: Niles observed that in his opinion, Irish music was wind driven (flutes, pipes) whereas Scottish music was more fiddle driven. My response begins with reference to his remarks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Niles's point is very well taken, but I'd argue that traditional Irish music has been dominated by the fiddle for at least the last 75 years or so, since the first Michael Coleman recordings came into wide circulation. I won't belabor this, but that's my observation.

And Niles is absolutely right that one really must listen to the great flute players, whistlers, and pipers to get a full sense of traditional Irish music.

My suggestion in the other thread to listen to Irish (and Scottish, Cape Breton, Quebec, et al) fiddlers is based on my personal experience and on my opinion that it is easier for a guitarist or mandolinist to get a more complete sense of the idiomatic aspects of rhythm, phrasing, ornamentation, and so forth by way of listening to a fiddler than it is listening to a piper or flute player.

Specifically . . .

Bow triplets and bowing in general can be adapted to the right-hand technique of plectrum players more readily than the equivalent aspects derived from breath or bag-and-bellows. And the left-hand ornaments--rolls, cuts, grace notes, slides, etc.--can be translated a little more directly to the mandolin than the equivalent ornaments on the pipes. I'm sure someone out there can do it, but I've never heard anyone approximate a proper uillean pipe cran on a plectrum instrument.

But the real point of my comment was that it was more important to listen to traditional players playing in traditional styles on traditional instruments. There is nothing wrong with learning Irish tunes from another mandolin player, but I think that should be in addition to listening to the older instruments.

As for adapting the music to the mandolin, there are many approaches. The dominant style shares most of it's key distinctions with tenor-banjo technique, where almost all of the ornamentation is derived from staccato triplet (or quadruplet) ornaments with the right hand. My own approach has been to also include left-hand rolls and grace notes with more-or-less the same technique used by fiddlers, and this approach is one that I've heard John McGann, Simon Mayer, and a number of other players use, also. I suppose the success of this approach is in the ear of the listener, but it is more satisfying to mine.

Just one guy's opinion.

PK

[MikeB]

Just one guy's opinion.

Just the guy I was hoping for. Thank you, Mr Kotapish. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[foldedpath]

I find myself throwing in a lot of slides (into a quarter note, usually). Approaches to playing triplets on mandolin have been discussed to death here (in part by me), but I don't remember reading much advice beyond that. So, other than trying to play smooth triplets and sliding into some notes (which I can't really say I hear many ITM mando players doing), I could use some more guidance on this stuff.

What techniques, specifically, does a mandolin player use to get that traditional--or authentic--sound?

If you haven't seen it already, you might want to check out Simon Mayor's "New Celtic Mandolin" instructional DVD, which covers some of the tunes he plays on his CD of the same name. One thing in he gets into, is how he'll re-arrange the fingering of a tune to allow drone notes on open strings. He also has a very light touch on the instrument, which I think helps bring out all the little ornamentations he does.

Of course this works best (and maybe only) for solo instrumentals, or multi-instrument arrangements that leave plenty of breathing room around the mandolin like those on Mayor's CD's. In a "regular" Irish session, most of the subtleties will be drowned out by fiddles, pipes, concertinas, etc., since mandolin is a fairly quiet instrument by comparison. I've sat in at a few Irish sessions at our local pub, and about all I can do is play the melody in unison with the main instruments, without getting too fancy with ornamentation.