Purchase new vs used oval mandolin

[mishima]

I am interested in the purchase of an A mandolin with an oval hole specifically a new Weber, Collings or a used Gibson. If all were purchased at or about the same price which would hold there price over time. Of course ultimately the sound of the mandolin will be the final deciding factor.

Thanks

[Lee]

Collings doesn't offer an oval hole mandolin, so far...
Old Wave ovals are certainly nice. If one shows up on the Classifieds, act fast.

[mandroid]

My A4 was made when my Mother was born.

I learned The original owner bought it a few years after returning from WW1.
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[Bill Snyder]

If you get a good price on the A-4 it should hold that price well.

[Brad Weiss]

If you get a good price on the A-4 it should hold that price well.
I am sure hoping so! (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=15;t=52670)


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[Rick Schmidlin]

I contacted Collings a week ago about the A progress. The they will be making them in the near future and varnish will be an option. I think I will wait and see and hear and then possible MAS.

[JeffD]

I am interested in the purchase of an A mandolin with an oval hole specifically a new Weber, Collings or a used Gibson. If all were purchased at or about the same price which would hold there price over time. Of course ultimately the sound of the mandolin will be the final deciding factor.
Here is my perspective. I try very hard to separate the often conflicting goals of an investor, a collector, a dealer, and a player.


I have decided I am a player, and so, to me, I never intend to sell any of my instruments. And so I do not care what the future value of them will be. I purchase what makes the best sense to me at the time, and I play the potatoes out of it without concern.

For investing with the intent of making money down the road, there are so many much better things to consider - without the danger of falling in love with any of them, or the danger of hurting their value through use.

I have a friend who collects, invests in, and uses, fine hand guns. He buys two of everything, one to keep in the vault, in the original packing material, untouched, and the other to use. Another friend of mine has a similar conflict with fine bamboo fishing rods. I see his beautiful Winstons and T&T rods, and when he fishes, he is so skittish of hurting them, he often fishes his backup beater rod instead. I told him I purchase nothing I am not willing to break off on a lunker. (Better than breaking on a car door!)

But this avocation of ours is large enough to enjoy in many and various ways.

Jeff

[TomTyrrell]

This is not that hard. If you buy an old Gibson oval hole mandolin at the right price for today that mandolin will most likely not lose any value over the near or long term. It has pretty much depreciated all it is going to and is more likely on the upswing in value.

Any new readily-available mandolin will most likely see a bit of a down-turn in value before it sees any increase in value. (Please note I said readily-available since several makers have backlogs that are allowing a few people to buy new mandolins for way less than they are worth today.)

My big question is: Should a reproduction ever be worth more than a pristine original?

[cooper4205]

Good stuff, Tom.

you might also want to try and find an old snakehead Gibson, they seem to hold their value (or appreciate) better than the one's with the "paddle" headstock.

[jim_n_virginia]

This is just my own personal experience. Take it for what it's worth. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

When I decided I wanted an A style mandolin with an oval hole I went looking for that deep tubby sound that most all oval holed mandolins have.

I bought a new mandolin with an oval whole had it a week and sold it, it was a Pac-Rim model and very thin sounding after I listened to it for a little while. I sold it for what I paid for it and it wasn't easy to sell.

I bought another oval hole from eBay and it was a better mandolin, US made and cost twice as much as my first oval hole manolin. When I got it, it was tight , thin sounding and you absolutely could not hear it in a jam session of which I wanted one for Celtic and Old Time music and jams.
So I sold it for $50.00 less than what I paid for it.

Almost giving up I decided to try a vintage Gibson A. I bought an old 1916 A-2 paddle head and with the first strum I new this was the one. It had the exact sound I was looking for and while quieter than my Fern it could be heard in the Celtic or Old Time jams I go to.

I have since bought another oval hole A, 1920 and BOTH of those mandolins are keepers. And on top of all of that I scour the Cafe Classifieds daily and and I think I could sell both of mu oval holed mandolins for MORE money than what I paid for them.

I have come to the conclusion that the old oval holed tubby mandolin sound cannot be built into a mandolin. It only comes with age and the curing of the wood and a lot of playing and opening up. I often wonder how many hands and players have played my oval A that was built in 1916?

I believe the old Gibson are still very affordable but I watch the prices inch up every year. I can't believe what people are getting for the old F2 and F4 ovals now.

Of the three mandolins you mention I would buy the used Gibson anyday.

Good luck in whatever you choose.



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[allenhopkins]

Differing perspectives: mandolin as musical instrument vs. mandolin as investment. #I think that when you say that sound will be the deciding factor, you're choosing instrument over investment. #And of course sound is largely subjective -- you like what you like -- and no one can make your mind up for you.

From the investment perspective, no contest: Gibson oval-hole. #They aren't made any more, so the supply is finite and limited. #They are sought by collectors as well as musicians. #They are appreciating significantly; my old A-1 was valued at $150 (significant repaired top crack) 30 years ago, would be probably four to six times that now. #Webers and Collingses are being manufactured even as I write this, and almost any new instrument takes a depreciation "hit" when it goes from "new" to "used" (I would make an exception for extremely limited production top-of-the line products of individual luthiers, such as Gilchrist or Sobell).

Buying instruments as investments, no matter what George Gruhn may say, is, to me, a bit of a risk. #You often buy at retail and sell at wholesale, so the value has to appreciate significantly enough to outweigh the dealer's "cut." #And if you plan to sell privately at a retail price, you have to locate a willing purchaser and handle the transaction yourself. #I'm sure this goes off with out a hitch dozens or hundreds of times, but what we always hear about are the exceptions where something goes wrong. #Plus the wear and tear you put on an instrument you play, affects its resale value -- and there's always the possibility of damage.

I've been lucky enough to acquire some knowledge of instruments, and some quality items that I'm sure are worth more than what I paid for them. #But I never bought them as investments; I bought them to play, and I would guess you're going to do the same. #Find the one you like, and enjoy it!

[JeffD]

As it is my most "collectable" mandolin, the 1923 A2 snakehead that is my avatar, though it has increased in value probably something over 400% since I purchased it, still hasn't achieved a 10% per year return on investment. I would have been better off with a mediocre mutual fund, and far ahead with a good one.

Of course it has that wonderful oval hole sound, and is my baby. It has been with me to something like 40 states, a US territory, and several foreign countries.

My grandmother, who grew up on a farm, admonished my mother to "never name anything you might have to eat", and the same for musical instruments, I am not going to fall in love with something I think I might want to sell at a profit someday.

[Eugene]

You can almost always get a lot more mandolin for your money buying used. There is a tremendous markup on any new instrument and instantaneous depreciation when you step out the dealer's door with a new instrument in hand. Exceptions are used mandolins with tremendous collector appeal (expensive outliers) and new mandolins sold as "seconds" because of minor finish issues (affordable outliers).

[jim_n_virginia]

As it is my most "collectable" mandolin, the 1923 A2 snakehead that is my avatar, though it has increased in value probably something over 400% since I purchased it,
NICE mandolin Jeff. A 23' snakehead is on my dream list along with a Loar, DMM and maybe a Gilcrist mandola one day.

While it may have not done as well as a fund might I still kick myself for not getting one even two or three years ago when the were pretty affordable.

[mandroid]

I have 2 A's both 'paddleheads' one [A0] was $600. [w/o original case] in'87
the A4 was $1350. with O.C. in '99.
one bought lay away over months, the other was on consignment,
both walk-ins to 'brick and mortar' shops.

[JeffD]

While it may have not done as well as a fund might I still kick myself for not getting one even two or three years ago when the were pretty affordable.
For the playing I agree.

My "stable" does not include a scroll. I have a bad case of scroll envy, but I want a Gibson - everyone else's scroll is derivative from the Gibson original, I would like an original.

I prefer oval holes to F holes so an F4 would suit me fine. I think an oval hole F style looks really cool. And the three pointer is the pinacle of the art. If I could get a reasonably priced one all my MAS would be in remission.

Until I found a Lyon & Healy assymetrical two pointer with fiddle head scroll and original vulcanized pick guard...

And don't get me on to bowlbacks...

[Bob A]

The Gibson oval hole mandolin defined the sound and look. They are still (mostly) affordable. If they typify what you like about that style of mandolin, why not go for the Original? Depreciation factored in, it would be hard to lose money on one of them unless you ran it over with a truck. Even then you could part it out and get most of your money back.

[Frank Russell]

Lee's advice about getting an Old Wave oval is right on. Bill makes the finest oval(and f-hole)A model next to a great old Gibson that I've found so far. His mandolins are high on playability and tone, and just a pleasure to pick. Plus, Bill's one of a kind. If I was in the market for an oval hole, that's what I'd do, no doubt. Frank