View Full Version : Red diamond on ebay
Barry Platnick
Apr-03-2008, 10:30pm
Does anyone know about this instrument?
has anyone seen it or played it personally?
has anyone dealt with "flip it fast"?
thanks
Bill Snyder
Apr-03-2008, 10:38pm
Lots of threads about Flip it Fast. Lots of positive things said and several negatives. The positives frequently come from people that have dealt with them or know Mitch Simpson (Flip-It-Fast owner). The negatives are about him pulling auctions early if the bidding is not going his way or speculation about shill bidding.
I have never dealt with them or met Mr. Simpson. Do a search for them and read the earlier threads. Here (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=12;t=51084;hl=flip)is a thread about a particular auction of theirs, but it talks a lot about Flip-It-Fast as well as the particular auction.
MikeEdgerton
Apr-03-2008, 10:40pm
Flip It Fast is owned by Mitch Simpson, a member of the cafe. There have been numerous discussions about him and his organization. You can find one of them <a href="http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=12;t=48361;hl=flipitfast
" target="_blank">here</a>. As someone that has dealt with Mitch I never had any problems with him. I will note that most if not all of the people that have reported problems have never mentioned that they did any business with him, they generally will point to other places on the web where there have been discussions about the company. Read through the posts attached and form your own opinion.
In addition, most of these (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=Search&CODE=02&SID=47f5a46247570305) threads mention Flip It Fast .
NoNickel
Apr-03-2008, 10:41pm
The only thing that I noticed is that it appears to have a repaired headstock that isn't described in the text/
Barry Platnick
Apr-04-2008, 7:45am
I had noticed the headstock crack and that made me wonder what else there might be hence the post to see if anybody has first hand exposure to the instrument.
MikeEdgerton
Apr-04-2008, 8:02am
What is shill bidding?
Where a seller has someone bid an item higher so that the other bidders will follow.
jjboone101
Apr-04-2008, 8:29am
If there is indeed a crack in the headstock or a prior break/repair, I would consider that a material piece of information a seller should disclose. Especially on a $8000 instrument...
According to the add this is #66. Don's website lists the owner of this mandolin. Would be worth trying to contact him about any issues. The starting bid seems high to me.
Bill Snyder
Apr-04-2008, 2:05pm
What is shill bidding?
Where a seller has someone bid an item higher so that the other bidders will follow.
I want to make it clear that I am not accusing them of using shill bidding. I do not think anyone has proof of it, that is why I used the modifier speculation.
Chris Biorkman
Apr-04-2008, 2:17pm
If there is indeed a crack in the headstock or a prior break/repair, I would consider that a material piece of information a seller should disclose. Especially on a $8000 instrument...
I agree. That's pretty dishonest.
MikeEdgerton
Apr-04-2008, 2:42pm
I want to make it clear that I am not accusing them of using shill bidding. I do not think anyone has proof of it, that is why I used the modifier speculation.
The threads speak for themselves. Anyone that reads them is sure to come away with an opinion one way of the other. I will say this, Mitch Simpson manages to generate a lot of discussion about his auctions.
NoNickel
Apr-04-2008, 4:57pm
I had forgot to mention in my post that not only is there an apparent headstock break, it looks like the tuners have been changed too (maybe for the better, who knows?). However, since the ad does mention that the tuners are in perfect working order "since they were installed" maybe he considers this disclosure. This at least the third time flip-it-fast has had this mandolin on ebay. The first two times it was at $9200 or $9300.
For full disclosure, I offered the seller to trade my Brentrup for this item when he was at the higher price and he turned me down ("no trades," he said). My posts are not sour grapes as I think a Red Diamond is a fine mandolin and I would still be interested in it if I had some cash. I was aware of the concerns mentioned when I made my offer. I am not sure that with some of the concerns it is worth what is being asked, but it is a Red Diamond, which has to count for something. It just seems to me that if anyone were interested in the mandolin, they should have this information.
Jonathan Peck
Apr-04-2008, 7:00pm
Did anyone ask the seller if the headstock had been broken and repaired, or if the tuners are original?
mrmando
Apr-04-2008, 7:15pm
If there is indeed a crack in the headstock or a prior break/repair, I would consider that a material piece of information a seller should disclose. Especially on a $8000 instrument...
It doesn't hurt to mention it in the text, obviously. But if you want to talk disclosure, the fact remains that it's right there in the photo. Doesn't that count as disclosure?
Barry Platnick
Apr-04-2008, 7:31pm
I emailed the seller and they said no mods no breaks. I asked specifically about the headstock.
I gotta say I dont know much but it looks lik it was broken to me and that the tuners if not chaged have been off and on.
all this worries me a bit
mrmando
Apr-04-2008, 7:50pm
That's how it looks to me too.
Mitch knows mandolins but I'm not sure all of his staff do. (That's right, it isn't Mitch himself placing all these auctions and handling all your questions.) You might want to reply and point out the exact problem in the exact photo, and ask if Mitch can confirm.
Whoever repaired the broken scroll might've taken the tuners off to make it easier to get a clamp on the headstock, then perhaps overtightened a screw when replacing the tuners, or done something else to put that chip in the finish. Yes, it looks like they've been off, but I don't think we've ruled out the proposition that they are the originals.
...On the other hand, it doesn't look as though the binding on top of the headstock has been messed with, and you'd have to do that in order to reglue a broken scroll. Not sure what's going on, then. Here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180229536548) is the ad, BTW.
Chris Biorkman
Apr-04-2008, 8:33pm
It really looks like his fit and finish has improved quite a bit since this one.
woodwizard
Apr-04-2008, 8:46pm
Might have a crack there. IMHO Although as someone has already mentioned the binding doesn't appear to have been messed with. But that doesn't sound right either. You can diffinently see a "let's say" break/crack on both sides and in the same location. I think a serious buyer should have a look at it up close and personal if possible. Sure is a purty mandolin tho. I know that atleast in my case most of the time it was not possible to check it out in person and I had to rely on and trust the individual the biggest part of the time. Never been burnt yet. Knock on curly maple. I think a person can tell most of the time if it's a straight & up deal after some serious communication. As I said MOST of the time.
G. Fisher
Apr-04-2008, 8:55pm
From the imprint it looks like there may have been Waverlys on the mando at one time.
woodwizard
Apr-04-2008, 9:20pm
Well it looks like he just ended the auction with "0" bids http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
MikeEdgerton
Apr-04-2008, 9:35pm
It will be back I'm sure.
NoNickel
Apr-04-2008, 10:21pm
I don't think that those impressions come from the same tuners. #There was something else on there at one time. #When you change tuners, you can often see impressions left by the old ones. #Taking the originals off and putting the same tuners back on would not do this. #Not sure if the Gary Price tailpeice is orginal or not. #I would love to have a Red Diamond mandolin and would not pass one up if the price was right for its condition. #I'm not sure the price is right on this one with the concerns noted, even with its orginal Eastman fiberglass case. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
There might be some argument as to whether a defect shown in a picture is full disclosure or not. #I personally think that a material defect should be shown and described. #But if you are only going to do one, a text description is the minimum, with an offer to send close up pictures. #I don't think a picture showing the defect without a description is full disclosure. #Then, in this case the seller has responded that there is no crack. #So now the picture needs a better explanation. Also, a closer look at the front shows that the "crack" shows up on the front in the same place.
On the other hand, at the right price, it might be a stupendous buy.
jjboone101
Apr-05-2008, 7:05am
Agree on the tuner change-out. Those look like Schallers on it now, but the indention appears to have the pointed tips typically made by either Waverlies or Gotohs...
MikeEdgerton
Apr-05-2008, 7:25am
I think they were Waverly's.
TomTyrrell
Apr-05-2008, 10:07am
The photos are pretty clear. A perfect text description would be difficult to do and would be very very long. They give a 24 hour approval period and invite potential buyers to call for an in-hand description. Why wouldn't you pick up the phone if you are thinking about buying a 7K+ mandolin?
If the price is too high don't buy it. Sooner or later he'll find a buyer. Pretty much the same as with any other dealer.
sgarrity
Apr-05-2008, 11:54am
Red Diamonds are great mandolins. I owne one for a while. But his one is WAY over priced IMHO.
NoNickel
Apr-05-2008, 12:35pm
The photos are pretty clear. A perfect text description would be difficult to do and would be very very long. They give a 24 hour approval period and invite potential buyers to call for an in-hand description. Why wouldn't you pick up the phone if you are thinking about buying a 7K+ mandolin?
I can't agree with that. #The problem, as some one else pointed out, is that if the tuners being changed out and the possible headstock crack were not mentioned in the text, then what other problems are not being mentioned? #When I buy an instrument over the internet, I expect a full description and don't want the seller to say that it was my job to look closely at the picutres or that 24 hours approval is enough protection. #Even if I relied upun the approval period, the seller would still be expecting me to pay the pretty steep $150 shipping it took to get to me and shipping costs back; not to mention the hassels of shipping and dealing with a seller who might or might not be accomodating. #Would he be able to say that the headstock crack is fully apparent in the picture, so I couldn't get my money back?
I think I want everything disclosed in writing before I get it. #He mentions some "buckle rash" on the back, but two more material problems ar not mentioned. #Also, there is no extra cost for more text on ebay, so I think more rather than less disclosure is appropriate. #Buying on line is hard sometimes, but made much easier with full disclosure of all problems.
One other thing I noted about the ad after looking at it again. #The first paragraph of his text indicates what their grading system for instruments is, but this instrument does not appear to have a grade. #I did not check his other ads -- are we supposed to follow up for grades?
TomTyrrell
Apr-05-2008, 1:10pm
Pick up the telephone, the number is in the listing. Exactly the same thing you would do if you were buying a $7,000 mandolin from Elderly or The Mandolin Store or any other retail dealer.
If the seller lists 100 faults but he misses just one somebody will be there to jump on him.
MikeEdgerton
Apr-05-2008, 1:25pm
If I think about it, if I was trying to hide the fact that the headstock scroll had been cracked I probably wouldn't include a picture, let alone a picture that was large enough to see the crack. If someone is hiding something they usually hide it all the way. Either Mitch is real stupid (by the way, he's not) or he meant for that picture to be there showing the crack. They say a picture is worth a thousand words.
NoNickel
Apr-05-2008, 1:37pm
I emailed the seller and they said no mods no breaks. I asked specifically about the headstock.
I gotta say I dont know much but it looks lik it was broken to me and that the tuners if not chaged have been off and on.
all this worries me a bit
This is the part the worries me. #If a picture is worth a thousand words, then obviously, either the the picture is wrong or the seller is. #If there are no mods, then how do you explain the tuner impressions? #And if there is no break, how do you explain the picture that looks like a break has happened.
I agree that I would certainly pick up the phone if I were interested.
MikeEdgerton
Apr-05-2008, 2:31pm
I don't think he said there was no break, let me recheck the copy.
MikeEdgerton
Apr-05-2008, 2:36pm
For posterity the ad says:
"Today we have a Red Diamond F-Style Mandolin #66. This mandolin is a rarity to see for sale, seeing as the Luthier Don MacRostie only builds 12 a year!! Named after the great "Red Diamond Stradivarius Violin", this mandolin is built to Last and to Blast!! This is perhaps the loudest mandolin(other than a few loars) I have ever heard. The tone is balanced, yet this mandolin barks with a passion; easily trampling banjo players with its chop, allowing you to take your place back in the rhythm section as it should be. The mandolin has beautiful flamed Eastern Hard Maple back and sides, and what appears to be an Adirondack Spruce Top. The fretboard is a beautiful ebony with larger than normal frets. The neck is a highly flamed maple, as well as the headstock. There also seems to be very little wear on the Gary Price tailpiece. The back has some minor buckle rash near the upper bout point. All the tuning keys are as functional as the day they were installed, and hold tune exceptionally well. The measurements are the following: The nut width is 1 1/8", Nut to 12th fret is 7", Nut to the end of fretboard extention is 10 7/8", Nut to Center of bridge is 14 1/8". This Diamond comes with a blue Eastman HSC with wine interior. All the locks are working and insure the safety of this Red Diamond. This mandolin eats others for lunch. Buy it, and FEED THE HUNGER!! JWL"
I will say that Mitch should change his boiler plate at the top that talks about conditions if he isn't going to use them.
NoNickel
Apr-05-2008, 3:04pm
Mike, the "no break" comment is from Cutter's email question to the Seller. Not from the copy. I just quoted the post.
NoNickel
Apr-07-2008, 8:49pm
The photos are pretty clear. A perfect text description would be difficult to do and would be very very long. They give a 24 hour approval period and invite potential buyers to call for an in-hand description. Why wouldn't you pick up the phone if you are thinking about buying a 7K+ mandolin?
If the price is too high don't buy it. Sooner or later he'll find a buyer. Pretty much the same as with any other dealer.
I just ran accross this description of an F4 on ebay tonight.
This is a 1921 F4 Gibson Mandolin. This is the best sounding one out of the three we have listed on Ebay right now. It does have some finish problems. It has a crack on the headstock and two on the body. They do not effect the performance of the instrument. The original owner whom we got the mandolin from had Gibson replace the machines in 1969 at which time the headstock overlay was replaced because the original brock when the machines were pulled off. This is why it doesnt say "The Gibson" on the headstock. We also have the original pickguard which is not currently on the Mandolin but can easily be put back on. If you have any more questions please feel free to call us at 219-736-7706. Buyer pays all shipping cost and we only ship in the USA.
Not particularly difficult or long, but very informative. Lots of pictures showing the defects and text clearly pointing out the problems.