Practice question, please

[spenser]

OK, got bit by the mando bug really bad, purchased a couple of fine instruments (Breedlove FF and Collings MT to serve the Bluegrass and Celtic sides of the brain and have bought EVERY mandolin book that I can get my hands on. It has gotten so bad that my local shop owner has said that she doesn't know what she is going to find for me next. Anyway, that is the problem, I have this smorgasboard of technique, tune, picking, celtic, medevel, classical, scales, triads, squares, circles, internet lessons, DVDs, downloads, homepages, well, by now you get the drift, I got a lot of books and information, in fact, so much so that is making my head hurt when I sit down to practice, not knowing which one to grab. So, here is the million dollar question (no, not that one, none of the mando's or books are for sale) but where to start? How to choose (other than what type moves me that night?) I have pretty much started the first few minutes with scales and finger work, then dont know what to grab next. Not a bad thing, I know, but just is too much. Ideas, help, therapy, self help group.....

[birdman98]

...maybe pick out a few easy tunes that you love the sound of. Work with em until you can make them sound nice to your ear. And enjoy making music with your new mandolins!

Many better players than me would follow a different track, but if you're having fun with what you are playing, alot of the technique will come along naturally.

[steadypluckinaway]

I have found myself in a similar situation. I cycle through my Bach and Thile and Grisman and etcetera every night. I have a stack of books about six inches thick and I can't pick just one. I have committed to learn standard notation though, so for the next few weeks I'm going to work solely on the "standard notation for the tab-addicted mandolinist". That will hopefully solidify my musical foundation because I'm tired of being a tab junkie.

One thing I've found tough to develop by myself is a good understanding of how to improve my rhythm playing. I have watched the part where Thile plays the backup rhythm on "Essential Techniques" during "Red Haired Boy" and I just don't get the rhythm. Not having anyone to practice with is no fun. Let us know when you decide which learning tool to focus on and good luck! What a fantastic dilemma to have!! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[kudzuklunker]

Hey Spenser, you got too many irons in the fire. What music do you like? Listen to it, learn rythm first. Put all them books in the drawer, take out one (the simple one) and work with it, go to jams. Find yourself a pro that you really like and listen closely and study his (her) technique. In about twenty years you may have it figured out. Unless you're like me, I may never figure it out. HAVE FUN!

[lmartnla]

I am in that situation too, i think being older accentuates the problem. #I ask my teacher when will I get there and he says you will never stop seeking and learning. #It is a process and a journey. #Not to worry. #Be sure to find some fun. #I think playing with friends that are also on the journey helps and reinforces. #Find some people to play with even if you are scared or don't love them--You will learn things you weren't expecting. Also find a way to play for people, family then friends then strangers. #That's when you are forced to try to polish things. Part of the hit and miss is a problem of your ability at the time. #Some pieces and lessons we may not be ready for on first, second or third attempt. #Don't get hung up on that--move on and come back later. # Don't get frustrated or feel guilty to do that. # Let go of your ego and eschew being judgmental. #Progress comes in time and it is tough to see how much has been accomplished. #Keep listening but try to make each piece your own. #I have a 4 foot shelf filled with books, #Also 4 large loose leaf folders filled with songs(2), tablature from every source I can find on #the internet, exercises and internet lessons, like at Eschliman site. #My books are so dog-eared from use and carrying around and notes that no one would want to buy them if I quit. #It is a lifelong pleasure and you can see only a short segment ahead. #Keep coming to mandolin cafe and Enjoy.---Lou

[mandodan1960]

I found myself looking for the silver bullit. The one method that would make all the difference. I've resigned myself to the fact however that only concentration, diligence and patience will get me closer to the place I want to be. I have a habit of doing this and learning music is no exception. I think that there's a problem in music where the foundation "scales" is hard to comprehend because you don't have anything you can relate them to and the reason for that is that they are step one. If that make any sense. It's taken me a while to figure that out. It makes sense to me and maybe it will help.
Mandodan1960

[Santiago]

Your next investment should be lessons. A little guidance and mentorship will go a long way.

[Weagle]

These are some suggestions that have worked for me. Establish some simple goals. Someone had mentioned finding some tunes you like. Do not quit until you have learned that tune. I always start my practicing with scales and exercises. There was a Jethro Burns finger exercise posted I am still trying to learn but it has really helped my finger work. Learning the scales and notes on the neck helps with your tones and learning new material. Get out and play with others. I always try to devote at least 30 minutes to a practice so I can see progress. I try to practice at least 5 times a week. Hope this helps.

[spenser]

Thanks for the responses so far, the comment about focusing is spot on-I came to mando from guitar, which I was struggling with. I picked up the mando at my teachers suggestion and heard the angles sing, and found out that I appeared to have an aptitude for mando, much more so than guitar, again, according to my teacher. So, I burned through beginners books quickly and then that started the exploration of other more advanced books, sooner than I probably should have started collecting them. The idea that is good is that I will pull out the stuff that I can play, and play well, and replace those with newer stuff so that the temptation to "keep playing the stuff that I already know" is gone, and focus on the hard stuff that I fluff off-chords, double stops and speeding up stuff that I know.

[nashvillebill]

Pick out songs, play along with records, have fun. You'll train your ears and learn along the way.

[gnelson651]

Been there...Done that http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

For the past four years, I've been self-taught. Here is what I learned (the hard way) regarding choice of book/DVD, or other instruction materials.

Pick a book and just go though it. If you have Greg Horne's "Beginning Mandolin" start there. IMHO its the most definitive beginning method book.

1. Start with your scales-start with C,then add G,D,A as you progress, first open #and then closed. Then start over with C,G,D,A, pentatonic scales and blues scales.

2. Learn your two-finger chords. Next try three finger chords and then move to the closed chords.

3. #Learn 10-15 fiddle tunes such as "Soldiers Joy", "Rag Time Annie" "Old Joe Clark". I used "The American Fiddle Method." Caveat-AFM has no tab but the fiddle fingerings will do just as well. You might end up learning standard notation in the process.

4. Start by picking out by ear easy songs you know, like "Happy Birthday," Mary Had a Little Lamb." Listen to the #type of music you like in BG and Celtic. Try to play along with the CD, figure out a simple the melody and find the chords. (most Fiddle and BG is the I, IV & V chords, i.e, in G = G (I) C(IV), D (V). There is a resolve back to the I chord. Sometimes it will be just a two chord song of I, V.

5. Go to local jam sessions or festivals, learn to play with others.

That should start you off for the next year. As you progress, you will be discerning in selecting how you want to progress.

Or cut to the chase, as Santiago states and find yourself a teacher. I recently finually found a teacher to help me move into the Intermediate stage of playing.

[Greg H.]

I usually try and start off with stuff I already know well and loosen up for a while (just having fun playing) and then move to songs/variations I'm working on. It may just be an age thing, but it helps me a lot to get my fingers relaxed and limber before trying something new.

[JeffD]

I found myself looking for the silver bullit.
The silver bullet for me was the jam session. It focused my practice time, put fire under my seat to get better, connected my private world of practice with the public world of playing, developed my listening and "playing with" skills, like adaptive timing and hearing chord changes.

I can't recommend it too strongly, if it is at all possible, get to playing with folks asap.

[chip]

You need to quit buying books, dvds, etc. Just because you buy them doesn't transcribe into the more the better syndrome. It's like people buying too many instruments thinking that one of them is going to make all the difference in their playing. The old saying of anything worth doing is worth doing well goes along way. Start on page one of one book/or first lesson on a dvd and learn it! LEARN IT. Don't go skipping around all the various materials until you master one all the way through. You'll have alot more confidence in yourself once you master a particular excercise, scale, song. In time things will begin to fall into place at a much faster pace and all the little things you learned in the beginning will transcribe into improvisation in other songs, etc. The foundation you build now will be the house you live in later so make sure the foundation is solid otherwise you'll probably lose interest and that would be detrimental to other things you may want to accomplish in other endeavors. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

[Bryan T]

So, here is the million dollar question (no, not that one, none of the mando's or books are for sale) but where to start? How to choose (other than what type moves me that night?) I have pretty much started the first few minutes with scales and finger work, then dont know what to grab next. Not a bad thing, I know, but just is too much. Ideas, help, therapy, self help group.....
I'm in a similar situation, in that I'm super excited about the mandolin and am finding my way through the mountain of material available. I had a thread a few weeks ago in the Technique section asking which books folks found to be most useful. It might be worth looking through that thread and then focusing on a book or two that you own that is mentioned in that thread.

For me, I'm finding that there are a few areas that I really enjoy working on. I love cross-picking and I love playing Bach's cello/violin pieces. I spend a good amount of time on both, including improvising in those styles. I'm finding it is very useful to get my muscle memory going, it develops my technique/tone, and I get to play musical ideas. I also work a lot on playing arpeggios (scales, too, but mainly arpeggios). These are great for improvising, as well as visualizing the neck better - they help both my single note and chordal playing. The Jazz Mando site is also very useful for theory, tips, and exercises. The videos on Music Moose are useful, though a lot of them are lick/song focused.

Whoops! I just gave you more materials to work with. The big lesson is that you can't buy your way into being a better musician. Put in the time and you'll see growth.

Bryan

[woodwizard]

I would make a list of the songs I'm working on and the ones I like and the ones I already know . Then possibly make notes on each song as to what book to refer to for help if needed. Then just sit down and have fun running thru these songs/tunes and keep adding new ones when you like. I think that would be a good fun way to refresh on the ones you know and keep learning new stuff. Just an idea.

I've made a couple of binders with about 100 or so songs in each with tab/music etc. In the begining of each binder is just a index list of the songs. I first try to just run down the list without having to refer to the tab/music. It's alot of fun for me. Sort of having my own solo concert/show/performance. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Geoff B]

I second Chip's sentiment above and offer this to add:
It seems you've got a plethora of how-to's, but here is where to start:
1) pick up the instrument
2)start playing

Also, don't think about should/shouldn't, can/can't, will/won't... think of Yoda here "do or do not, there is no why"

[Doug Hoople]

Someone once said to me, "If I had actually absorbed everything in all the books I've bought, I'd be a genius." And boy, does that ever describe me.

But what an impediment! With all the information you've got in your hands, it will be years before you'll be able to form a coherent musical picture with it.

Put ALL the books away in the attic. Learn a couple of tunes that you really love and that are within reach. Try to learn a tune that's really hard, and keep working away at it. Learn a couple of scales (G & D major, E and D minor).

Then go out and use that material. Speak your language. Have musical conversations with other musicians. Play the scales until they're no longer dry technical exercises and have started to form phrases and sentences.

And don't open a single one of those books until you've done all that.

[Chris "Bucket" Thomas]

I have been in the same boat!

What do you want to sound like? You have to know that before you can start in that direction.

For me, I got rid of most of my other stuff and have been focusing on the Monroe style via Mike Comton over the internet via webcam. I am happy say that I feel like I have made some progress.

[niaflsbob]

Being a guitar player to start with, before taking up mando and fiddle, i think it's overlooked too often the fact that if you want to play well you really need to develop a solid sense of rythym and timing. (Sorry, i couldn't rememeber the spelling, darn it). Personnally i have a real problem playing along with anyone, on any instrument, that seems more interested in playing hot licks, scales, arpeggios, etc and can't seem to get the timing right. so include in your practice playing along with a favorite recording but play the back up part, and get the beat right. the heart of any music style is the beat, and in a group or jam you will contribute a whole lot by playing in rock solid time. and it make your lead playing sound much better. can never have too much beat

[Brad Weiss]

Get a teacher. Fastest way to get SOMEWHERE, and figure out where you want to go.

[TEE]

I have played for thirty years and just now realised I have never bought a mandolin book, DVD or instructional anything. I did get a teacher and played with others a lot.Nothing wrong with reading of course.

[Tim Bowen]

Someone once said to me, "If I had actually absorbed everything in all the books I've bought, I'd be a genius." #And boy, does that ever describe me.

But what an impediment! #With all the information you've got in your hands, it will be years before you'll be able to form a coherent musical picture with it.

Put ALL the books away in the attic. #Learn a couple of tunes that you really love and that are within reach. #Try to learn a tune that's really hard, and keep working away at it. #Learn a couple of scales (G & D major, E and D minor). #

Then go out and use that material. #Speak your language. #Have musical conversations with other musicians. #Play the scales until they're no longer dry technical exercises and have started to form phrases and sentences. #

And don't open a single one of those books until you've done all that.
Print Doug's post out and read it every day, and do as he advises. His advice is as straight up perfect as it gets.

[Bertram Henze]

Don't be like John Franklin (arctic naval explorer who got stuck in the ice and set off on foot, never making it because he carried loads of unneccessary stuff with him).

Neccessary things are (sorted by importance):
- a player (i.e. you)
- one instrument (which you have, I understand)
- a near goal (e.g. playing one favourite simple song)
- navigation aid (i.e. a teacher)

Too little information calls for your creativity, but too much information drowns you in confusion.

I realize that all this is just different words for what everybody else said, but sometimes even that helps.

Bertram