Martin bowlback mandolin

[mando Nick]

A friend of mine, who mainly repairs guitars, has an old Marin bowlback mandolin with the series number #2045. It needs work on the top.
I am interested in rather or not these instruments play well when set up; and roughly how much one--in good condition--might sell for.
thank you,
Nick Royal
Santa Cruz, CA

[MikeEdgerton]

You won't put a kid through college on what it's worth. Have you got pictures even in the current state it's in?

[Bob A]

I suspect that a low-end Martin (style 1) with cosmetic issues might go as low as $3-400; a fancy style 5, 6 or 7 could go ten times that amount.

Martin bowlbacks are very well thought of in the US by bowlback fanciers. My own personal opinion is that I prefer a more substantial neck; I find the Martin neck to have insufficient depth. This is probably due to my having "imprinted" on a non-trussrod F4.

American bowlbacks are generally underappreciated; the big markets are Europe and Japan, where European instruments have much more exposure. This is a good thing, insofar as most Americans are not interested in thsi type of instrument, and those overseas buyers are generally unacquainted with US instruments and spend their cash elsewhere, so good deals can be had.

The biggest headache is getting proper repairs in the US as most American luthiers have little or no experience with the breed.

[trebleclef528]

I think serial number 2045 puts it at around 1906 but I'm not sure what model that would be. As Mike says some pictures would help as it would depend very much on what condition it's in as to whether or not it's worth repairing, or perhaps selling on.

I think Bob is fairly accurate re prices but again it depends a lot on condition, model etc. <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/1905-Martin-Mandolin-Style-3_W0QQitemZ220216769805QQihZ012QQcategoryZ10179QQs sPageNameZWDV
WQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">This one</a> currently on ebay (1903)seems in good nick, but i think the seller is a little optomistic on the asking price (unless someone knows something thats really special about it?)
Best Wishes

[brunello97]

I have a Martin 00 bowlback which is quite a nice player. In my under-experienced eye and ear they are broadly speaking the best of the American made high-production bowls. (Of course there are top of the line versions from L+H and Vega-particulalry their artist modle lines.)

I hate to help drive Martin prices up even higher but this Style 1 went for $800 on the ebay. Which seems a shocking escalation for a modest, yet no doubt good quality Martin. An aberration or bidding war or a sign of the times?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws....&ih=012 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220213600324&ssPageName=STRK:MEDW:IT&ih=012)

If you can secure one at a reasonable cost, I highly recommend them. If you have a picture or two to post you will get further feedback for sure. Any idea what your friend is asking for it?

Mick

[MikeEdgerton]

An aberration or bidding war or a sign of the times?
Anything will gain in value if two or more eBay folks decide they really want that particular item. I call it getting the eBay Crazies and I've had them myself a time or two. True control is not getting sucked into it. It's like having a really bad case of MAS that lasts 30 or 40 seconds.

[Eugene]

If you can secure one at a reasonable cost, I highly recommend them.
Me too!

[allenhopkins]

Per Longworth's book, Martin Guitars, A History, serial number 2045 indicates a production date of 1907 (number range for that year 2026-2357).

Martin made bowl-backs from just before 1900, to 1925. #They made Styles 1 through 7, with increasing ornamentation and number of ribs (Style 1 had 18 ribs, Styles 2 and 3 26 ribs, Styles 4 and 5 34 ribs, Style 6 42 ribs, "fluted and joined with ivory," Style 7 42 ribs with extensive pearl inlay. #All these styles had rosewood bodies, spruce tops, mahogany necks. #Martin also made Styles 0, 00 and 000 mahogany-bodied mandolins, with 9 or 18 ribs, as lower priced models.

Martin bowl-back production was never very extensive. #In 1907 they made 60 Style 1's, 39 Style 2's, 33 Style 3's, 30 Style 4's, 5 Style 5's, no Style 6's or 7's. #They made 95 Style 0's and 59 Style 00's, no Style 000's. #If you look inside at the neck block of the mandolin, you may find the model number stamped as well as the serial number. # If there's no model number, a "rib count," and a determination as to whether the ribs are rosewood or mahogany, can narrow down the model designation. #Longworth's book has more detailed descriptions of the inlays, ornamentation, tuner configurations etc. of the various bowl-back models.

As stated above, Martin bowl-backs are not as much in demand as some European models, and there is such a large number of turn-of-the-20th-century bowl-backs floating around, that they probably tend to get a bit lost. #However, like all Martins of the period, they are well-constructed quality instruments, and the "Martin" name carries a cachet among vintage dealers and collectors. #To get a price estimate, you probably need to ID what model you're dealing with, and test the waters with some West Coast vintage dealers.

[Jim Garber]

To get a price estimate, you probably need to ID what model you're dealing with, and test the waters with some West Coast vintage dealers.
Most American vintage dealers are still in the dark about the market value of bowlback mandolins. Too often they are relegated to "wallhanger" status. They are jjst starting to groggily wake up.

Then again, the Martin name still has caché tho I think the bowlbacks trail behind Martin ukes. Once again we are talking about the instrument market and not the intrinsic value of these as good playing instruments.

It is interesting tho that the 2008 VG Price guide has the older lower end Martins (styles 1 thru 000) going for a range of $500-900, so maybe we are underestimating what dealers would ask.

[brunello97]

Jim, I do think the Martin name is worth some real cachet that translates into marketing methods and pricing as well. #Witness all the obscure mandolins that show up on ebay with the word 'Martin' buried in the text: #"looks like a Martin", "maybe a Martin?" or my favorite: "not a Martin", all of which show up on ebay searches or favorite searches. # #Vinaccia and Embergher often serve the same purpose with euro-mandolins. #(A Puglisi bowlback went for well over $1000 recently perhaps thanks to such associative labeling.)

I bought my simple 00 Martin a couple years ago on the ebay in a "Kilpatrickan" moment after a few glasses of wine at dinner. # The next morning I thought $150 was way over the top. #Not any more, I guess. # # I suspect that more and more players are taking the plunge across the Great Divide, maybe as second instruments or as explorations. #The familiar, bankable maker names make sense as a way to go. # I expect Washburn prices to follow suit, though probably not to such an extent, maybe fueled a bit by the clarity provided by Hubert's guidebook. #(One can still get an entry level Washburn bowl--good quality #craft and excellent woods--for ~$100, which is an insane value, particularly compared to all the ratty Italian jobber mandolins available to 2-3X price on UK ebay-plus shipping.)

A continual tip o' the hat to bre'r Eugene for convincing me to get in on the ground floor. #

Mick

[Eugene]

Martin also made Styles 0, 00 and 000 mahogany-bodied mandolins, with 9 or 18 ribs, as lower priced models.
In the office, away from reference, and not owning a style 0, but I believe the style 0 was their most basic model in rosewood.

Here's my personal favorite mandolin, a one-of-a-kind Martin, 1908, ser. 2510:

[brunello97]

In the office, away from reference, and not owning a style 0, but I believe the style 0 was their most basic model in rosewood.
Yes, Eugene, my 00 has a rosewood bowl as well. I'm not sure if I've ever seen a mahogany bowl and known it, though I am looking forward to being corrected. I imagine some fluted bowls might have used it, given its carveability.

Mick

[JeffD]

The biggest headache is getting proper repairs in the US as most American luthiers have little or no experience with the breed.
That is a real problem. I have a nice Martin Bowlback, with some separation at the neck. I can't find anyone to take it on and fix it.

[brunello97]

Jeff, where are you located? Someone here is bound to have a recommendation of where you might take or send your Martin.

The shame is that US made bowlback necks are no harder to work on than any other US mandolin. Off comes the fretboard and the dovetail joint is readily accessible. Typically the top does not cover the joint as is the case with many Italian bowls-that is if there is even a neck-to-neck block joint, which there typically isn't. Perhaps this is why some repairman are leary, but it shouldn't be a difficult task at all on a Martin for a good craftsperson.

Mick