Brw mandolins

[Kevin Briggs]

I played BRW #77 today at the White Oak jam in Strasburg, PA. I just wanted to put a short review on here for anyone who is interested in these mandolins.

The fellow who owns it also owns a Weber Yellowstone, Collings MF, and a Morgan Monroe, I think. He used to own a Gibson F5G, but traded that in towards the Collings. So, he has a few mandolins and certainly has some experience experimenting with the sounds that come from different mandolins. Anyway... the BRW was a great mandolin. It made me wish that I had ordered one a while back when I was having a mandolin made by an independent builder. I'm sure I would have kept the mandolin if Ben Wilcox had made it.

It had good, crisp highs, a pretty throaty chop, and some good low end. I was particularly struck by the smooth feel of it when playing it. It was nice and responsive, so it didn't need to be played very hard. When played softly it had a good, even, humming sort of tone that would produce great tremolo on something that just needed to sound pretty. In contrast, my buddy played it towards the end of the three-hour jam and he drove it pretty hard. It responded wonderfully, and it had that dry, woody sound with big volume.

The finish was perfect. My Fern's finish is as close to flawless as it gets, and BRW #77 was in that same league, there's no doubt. I didn't see any strange finish marks or dull sports or anything. There were no gummy-feeling parts of the neck, the scroll was pinpoint accurate, the f holes were finished even on the ridge of the top plate, and all the lines were clear and distinct. I'm pretty critical of finish jobs, so if I'm saying it was great, I mean it.

All in all, my buddy said it cost him under $4,000 back in September, so it's an incredible value, at that price. For a fully loaded F style mandolin, I dare say it's unbeatable, in my experience.

Criticisms? I don't have any that require much attention. I own my Fern and that's it, so I am getting very used to my Fern and the way it plays and sounds, so that obviously impacts my judgments. However, I'll say that it didn't have the power in the G string like my Fern does. The G string on the BRW felt a little smoother, and kind of velvety. Still, it handled the chop as well as I would have liked. I'm pretty partial to the monstrousness of my Fern, and its puzzling ability to produce a very gentle tone when need be. The chop is one of my Ferns best attributes, so it may not be an apples to apples comparison.

My MAS kicked in today when I played that BRW. I'm in the market for an A model at some point. I just have to decide if I want an A model that I can kick around and camp with, or one that I need to baby like my Fern. A BRW A model would be something I would have to baby, as I'm confident it would be a great mandolin.

[Crowder]

Good review. I owned #23 for about a year before trading to a Collings MF and then my Passernig. Many of the points you mention were also great points about #23. If I had anything critical to say, it would be that the instrument sounded tight. I have seen several BRW's in the classies with comments like "She just needs to be played, needs to open up some." I wonder if Ben's mandos are slow to open up. It may just be a factor of so many BRW's being delivered to Cafe posters in a short time frame and none of them having been beaten in.

I would like to play a BRW with an Englemann top, and a J-16 for comparison.

[Kevin Briggs]

I agree about the enlgeman top comment. Number 77 had a distinct sweetness about it that borders on rich complexity. It would be interesting to hear if an engleman top had any significant impact on that. Speaking in generalities, it seems like engleman would be a good combination with Ben's graduations.

I'll say that #77 didn't feel tight. That was not my impression at all. There was a "green" sort of sound to it, but it didn't feel tight, if I'm understanding what tight means. For example, my old maple/gold/adi Bitteroot was a big sounding mandolin, but playing it was rough. I found a good combination of action, strings, and truss rod tweaks by the time I traded it (for my custom Fern, which plays like butter), but it took about two years to find that combo. The BRW felt nothing like that. It felt a little like the Pomeroy I once owned, but played stronger. It wasn't as delicate as that.

I'll add that I'm one who is willing to stick with a tight mandolin for a while. My custom Bitteroot was breaking in by the time I moved it, it just was a little too extreme, so I didn't think it would ever get to where I wanted it. Plus, I was greedy for the full cosmetic appointments. Tonally, it was just what I wanted: loud, round, and cutting. The Fern has thsoe qualities, but there's more finesse involved. It's a cut above, and has helped me realize some of the finer points regarding mandolin tone, and also what I was missing with previous mandolins.

I would not hesitate to get a BRW if I had the loot. I was thoroughly impressed. I will add that the fella who owned it met a guy who owned #10, and that guy sold #10 to have Ben build him #70 or something like that. Apparently, Ben is really perfecting his craft. Number 77 was a great example of what he can do.

[pjlama]

I had an engelmann top that was anything but tight, an absolute monster from the word go, so that supports the engelmann theory. I played the LT-H4, Ben sent it to me just for some feedback and was amazed, it's a perfect hybrid. Anyway, I want another BRW but since I have two heavy hitters, I need to wait just a bit but I'll go engelmann and probably varnish (just because I'm a sucker who thinks it makes difference) probably an A since I have F's covered. Ben's stuff is my favorite in the price point and one of my favs overall, great stuff.

[pjlama]

I guess we were writing at the same time so, so much for the Engelmann theory. Most builders hit their stride after so many and it's different for every builder.

[old9600]

I really enjoyed your comments because I am eagerly awaiting my new BRW.

I have FT-MS (F5) on order (red spruce, varnish and 5 ply ivory bindings) that is apparently in the white. When Ben returns from his trip to Oregan, he will be finishing it along with an A model. Ben continues to improve his instruments and he tells me that mine will be the first with the new body shape which, in his words, "has the same kind of upper point shape you see on the Loars and Dudenbostels (I doubt I'll change the shape again)". He has also just recently designed a new bridge, soundhole shape and has bought new CAD/CAM software to perfect the drilling of the tuner holes.

The guy is not peaking and I fully expect that in a few years his new mandos will be even better.

[Kevin Briggs]

old9600:

You're a lucky man. You'll like your BRW. Post a full review with pics and sound clips when you get it.

[pjlama]

I really enjoyed your comments because I am eagerly awaiting my new BRW.
Congrats! A pictorial is required. I'm sure you'll be knocked out.

[mandomick]

Nice review Kevin,too bad you couldn't do some "Youtoobin'" with it.(I like the clips you do) I have BRW #32, a J16 (my case queen) and #50, a 2 1/2 yr old F that's a honkin' BG mando. I told Ben it should be called an F-Zilla! It's got red spruce top and is the 1st mando that I've heard open up. It always had a beautiful ring and pop but in the last year it started sounding more open or seasoned. Ben deserves all the praise he gets for sure. I wonder if he'd accept an early deposit on #100? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Barry Platnick]

what Fern do you have? have you noticed a lot of variability among them? ( sorry to diverge a bit)

[Kevin Briggs]

Barry,

I have a custom Weber Fern. The customizations are a red spruce top, one-piece back, custom neck (like a 94 Flatiron Artist)and pearl nut. Here's a YouTube clip of it. I've also recorded about 60 videos fo just the Fern and how it sounds on different songs:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mJrsTmluSfM

I haven't played a lot of Weber Ferns, but I did play another one locally, and it compares favorably. They get good consistency with their Ferns. It's a fantastic, top-shelf mandolin.

[Brandon Flynn]

Barry,

I have a custom Weber Fern. The customizations are a red spruce top, one-piece back, custom neck (like a 94 Flatiron Artist)and pearl nut. Here's a YouTube clip of it. I've also recorded about 60 videos fo just the Fern and how it sounds on different songs:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mJrsTmluSfM

I haven't played a lot of Weber Ferns, but I did play another one locally, and it compares favorably. They get good consistency with their Ferns. It's a fantastic, top-shelf mandolin.
Great clips. Your fern sounds excellent. I liked the solo you played on hesitation blues, very cool. Would you say the BRW better than your fern, or just different? Your review of the BRW makes me think it is ideal for me. I don't need as much power in the G string, I don't need as loud of a chop, I want a more mellow sound.

[Satchel]

Great videos Kevin!

[Bill Van Liere]

Howdy All

Owner of BRW #51 here. #FT-MS Red Spruce/Varnish. I really like this instrument but will add that it is a little tight. I have had a great time watching this insrument develop over the last two years and am thinking there is still some more mando in there, time will tell. The sound was really clean right from the start on my BRW, as clean as the build appears.

Ben is great guy making a definate addition to the mando-world.

[Glassweb]

I have a friend (who some of you certainly know) that is the absolute authority on Gilchrist mandolins and has owned many, many of them over the years. One thing that has always struck him about Steve's mandolins is the fact that they are often "tight sounding" when they are new and that they really need to played hard for a year or so before they begin to bloom. He has repeatedly kicked himself for letting go of a new Gil, only to hear it later on and be amazed at how great a mandolin it had become. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that while many new mandolins can sound "tight" or "green" at first, if they are played aggresively and on a regular basis they will often burst out of their perceived bubble. I've been told a lot of it has to do with the hardness or stiffness of certain wood types.

[Kevin Briggs]

Barry,

I have a custom Weber Fern. The customizations are a red spruce top, one-piece back, custom neck (like a 94 Flatiron Artist)and pearl nut. Here's a YouTube clip of it. I've also recorded about 60 videos fo just the Fern and how it sounds on different songs:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mJrsTmluSfM

I haven't played a lot of Weber Ferns, but I did play another one locally, and it compares favorably. They get good consistency with their Ferns. It's a fantastic, top-shelf mandolin.
Great clips. Your fern sounds excellent. I liked the solo you played on hesitation blues, very cool. Would you say the BRW better than your fern, or just different? Your review of the BRW makes me think it is ideal for me. I don't need as much power in the G string, I don't need as loud of a chop, I want a more mellow sound.
Hey there. Thanks for the compliments.

I've always been one to say that once you reach a certain level in mandolins, the discussion of which one is better becomes truly subjective. Therefore, it's misleading for me to sit here and write that I think my Fern is better, hands down.

That said, my feeling is that my Fern is the best mandolin I've played. I mean that sincerely. For what I want to do, it fits the bill perfectly. I'm all set with the F style mandolin I need. The BRW is not inferior at all. It is different. If I could focus in on one thing that makes me prefer my Fern over it, it's the power in the bottom end. I know that will develop over time in a mandolin, but my Fern has a strong, bright G string, and screaming highs on the treble end. That's a good sign to me, because I've always heard that a mandolin will develop bottom end but no more trebles.

Please understand me, though, that I think the BRW is a top-shelf mandolin. It's just a different top shelf than my Weber Fern. I played a Bluett recently that is also a different top-shelf, and Kimble, DMM, Sumi, and Collings MF5 that are all different, but still great. Knowing what you like is what will make you find the mandolin you want. Knowing what others like will lead to MAS.

[Kevin Briggs]

I don't need as loud of a chop, I want a more mellow sound.
I'll add that the chop is nice and robust. It's loud and sounds "big." The G string is not necessarily soft, it's just not quite as intense as the G string on my Fern.

As an aside... both mandolins had brand new EXPJ74s on them yesterday when I A and Bd them.. That's a big factor.

[Mastertone08]

I see "old9600" and I are both in the BRW finishing line. The A-model referenced in his post is probably mine per recent discussions with Ben Wilcox. It's also scheduled to be sprayed when he returns from visiting family in Oregon. Ben sent pictures of my mandolin in-the-white and it's stunning - exceptional woods and workmanship.

I chose a red spruce top with sugar maple, back, sides and neck - which should favor the old Loar sound. Appointments include 3-ply ivoriod binding, floral peghead inlay, Elite nickel tuners with ivoroid knobs, 20's stamped bushings, banjo frets, 4mm MOP markers starting at 3rd fret, James tailpiece, Tusq nut, ivoroid end pin and the new BRW bridge design. The fingerboard has a custom "nugget" style extension. Finally, a tobacco/brown & vintage amber sunburst lacquer finish and set-up with J-74's.

It took quite some time to nail everything down but Ben was patient with explanations of numerous options and recommendations. A little hand-holding went into the mix as well! <g>

I've never heard, played or seen a BRW instrument. But, from numerous helpful posts/pictures on the Cafe and conversations with Ben my sense is this is the way I should be going.

Next step is to work with Ben to create a very special F-5 that will also take me into those retirement years. Most of the features are already in my head but we still need to huddle a few times. I was bitten late by the mandolin bug - about two years ago. I reluctantly retired two vintage Mastertones but keep my old D-28 handy! <g>

[Chip Booth]

my Fern has a strong, bright G string, and screaming highs on the treble end. That's a good sign to me, because I've always heard that a mandolin will develop bottom end but no more trebles.

Just thought I'd chime in with the fact that I owned a Brentrup that was quite dark and round sounding with warm trebles when I bought it and after about six months of playing it hard the top end opened up like crazy and now it can cut your head off. #It's never safe to make too many assumptions in the world of mandolins! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Chip

[Kevin Briggs]

my Fern has a strong, bright G string, and screaming highs on the treble end. That's a good sign to me, because I've always heard that a mandolin will develop bottom end but no more trebles.

Just thought I'd chime in with the fact that I owned a Brentrup that was quite dark and round sounding with warm trebles when I bought it and after about six months of playing it hard the top end opened up like crazy and now it can cut your head off. #It's never safe to make too many assumptions in the world of mandolins! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Chip
I stand corrected! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Kevin Briggs]

I see "old9600" and I are both in the BRW finishing line. The A-model referenced in his post is probably mine per recent discussions with Ben Wilcox. It's also scheduled to be sprayed when he returns from visiting family in Oregon. Ben sent pictures of my mandolin in-the-white and it's stunning - exceptional woods and workmanship.

I chose a red spruce top with sugar maple, back, sides and neck - which should favor the old Loar sound. Appointments include 3-ply ivoriod binding, floral peghead inlay, Elite nickel tuners with ivoroid knobs, 20's stamped bushings, banjo frets, 4mm MOP markers starting at 3rd fret, James tailpiece, Tusq nut, ivoroid end pin and the new BRW bridge design. The fingerboard has a custom "nugget" style extension. Finally, a tobacco/brown & vintage amber sunburst lacquer finish and set-up with J-74's.

It took quite some time to nail everything down but Ben was patient with explanations of numerous options and recommendations. A little hand-holding went into the mix as well! <g>

I've never heard, played or seen a BRW instrument. But, from numerous helpful posts/pictures on the Cafe and conversations with Ben my sense is this is the way I should be going.

Next step is to work with Ben to create a very special F-5 that will also take me into those retirement years. Most of the features are already in my head but we still need to huddle a few times. I was bitten late by the mandolin bug - about two years ago. I reluctantly retired two vintage Mastertones but keep my old D-28 handy! <g>
I think you're going to be good to go. Based on #77, I'd say that Ben is building a great mandolin. I went with an independent builder once and the mandolin was nothing near #77. That may be another reason why I'm so impressed.

[fwoompf]

My teacher plays BRW 58 and it's amazing.

[jim_n_virginia]

I got to play around with Darol Anger's BRW after a concert here in Norfolk, VA it was the one with the Western Flyer F holes and clipped scroll. It was a great sounding (and looking)instrument, very light and almost bright sound.

I too play a Gibson Fern and it was a lot different sound than mine but it was perfect for the kind of music he and Scott Nygaard were playing that night. They were playing medevial, jazzy and kinda Celtic music but definitely not Bluegrass music.

I wouldn't mind owning a BRW. I remember when he first started building and used BRW's were showing up here and there in the classifieds and you could get a GREAT deal on them back then. They are still pretty affordable but the price has gone up and deservedly so.

[NoNickel]

I bought #64 in December of 2006 (its birthdate). #I was happy when I got it and ecstatic now. #I have played it a lot. #In fact, in about 14 months I had worn out the frets and a set Grover tuners, so I sent it back for a little BLC (Ben's Loving Care). #He refretted it for me and put on a set Waverly's. #The sound in that amount of time (12/06 to today) has gotten as gotten as good as anything I have ever heard. #A very well known mandolinist at NashCamp last year played it and pronounced it to be one happy mandolin. #It has improved a lot since then. #Ben's work is some of the best value out there. # Do yourself a favor if you have not tried a BRW, and seek one out to play.

[Salty Dog]

To add historical accuracy to Briggadier's story about BRW #77, the owner's name is Ken. #He first played BRW#12 #(11/01) a few years ago and liked it. #More recently, he played #61 (10/06)and that (along with extended conversations he and I had about the merits of Ben's mandolins) lead to his purchase of BRW#77. #BRW#77 has a red spruce top, which is consistent with the Gibsons. #BRW#12 and BRW#61 both have Engelmann spruce tops. #I believe the Engelmann takes longer to open up but produces a brighter (less woody) sound than red cedar. #I beat on #61 for more than 6 months before I played it in public and it is still opening. #To add a bit more to the history of BRW, #12 was indirectly mentioned in the recent feature article about Ben and his mandolins in "Bluegrass Unlimited". ##12 is the only mandolin that has been returned to him on approval for medical reasons. #He advertised it on e-Bay as "slightly used". #When I inquired as to what that meant, he said that he shipped it to the purchaser whose wife called and asked if she could return the mandolin for a refund as her husband was hospitalised and they were facing medical bills. #Ben agreed and told me that he didn't even know if the mandolin had been removed from the shipping carton, but could not honestly sell it as new because I would not be the original owner. #He could easily have passed it off as new to me. #How's that for honesty! #I bought the mandolin.

[Kevin Briggs]

Salty!

I can't believe I didn't know Ken's name. I've known him for two years and play with him at White Oak frequently. You shoudl have heard his rendition of "Amazing Grace" this past Saturday. It was powerful.

Thanks for the information. The Mandolin Cafe is a wonderful place. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[NoNickel]

I should add that Ben's set-up and repair work on #64 was timely and reasonably priced. But most of all, it was well executed and done completely in accord with my requests. Ben is a class act.

[Salty Dog]

Kevin, I'm not sure if you are referring to Ken's voice or mandolin playing on "Amazing Grace". #I'm not sure why I kept his last name a secret (web instinct, I suppose) as Ken does not. #He is the voice of the magnificent "Sunnyside" bluegrass gospel band based in and around Lancaster, PA. #Check out their website. #In my opinion, his voice compares with that of John Starling when he was with "Seldom Scene". #If you get a chance to attend one of their performances, you will be delighted. #Ken actually plays guitar with the band and (as mentioned) is the lead vocal. #The mandolin player of "Sunnyside" (Ray Horst) did a project with Jesse McReynolds supposedly to be released in November, 07, but I can't seem to locate it. #I'm sure Jesse wasn't looking to hire a mandolin player, so I am sure he wanted Ray's high tenor, which also is one of the best I have heard. #Bottom line, if you live within reach of Lancaster, PA, check out their website, and catch a performance. #You will not be disappointed.