All mahogany mandolins?

[ffxcowboy]

Recently began playing mando as a nice change from my Martin dred. Martin makes great all mahogany guitars that sound great and are very reasonably price. Why doesn't someone make F body mandos entirely from this wood as well? I bet they would sound very woody, warm and yet, crisp. Why is maple back and sides the gold standard for F mandos? Or did I miss something?

[grsnovi]

I'll offer the following opinion: the F-style mandolin is a USA-born idea. The popularity of this instrument was drive by the fact that Monroe used a Gibson F to forge what is commonly known as "bluegrass". While A-style and bowlbacks have their place, the F-style dominates the bluegrass circuit and the desire to mimic Monroe's sound drives the market.

I'm sure that any number of custom builders would be happy to build you a mahogony F

[John Flynn]

I am a mahogany lover also and have an all-mahogany Martin 000-15S. As you may be aware, Mid-Missouri makes an all-mahogany flat-top oval, the M-11. Also Weber makes the Hyalite, which is an F style arch top with F holes with mahogany back and sides. Weber also will generally let you make whatever wood choices you want on any of thier models, on special order. That being said, I think it is important to remember that a mandolin is not a guitar and what woods yield a certain result on one instrument will not always give the same result on another.

one minor correction to jflynnstl's post. The Hyalite is the mahogany A-style, the Gallatin is the Weber F-style with a mahogany back/sides.

[John Rosett]

i have a weber bitterroot, which is weber's mahogany-bodied "traditional" f style. it has plenty of volume, and a sweet tone that is somewhere between a traditional bluegrass mando and an old oval hole gibson.
i used to have an old favilla a-style with f holes, that was all mahogany, including the top. it compared favorablly with a 40's gibson a-50.
i've always liked mahogany bodied guitars, and i guess i spent alot of years believing the "conventional wisdom" that says you have to have a maple body if you want good volume and tone. like so many have said here- find the one that speaks to you.
john

[Hoovetone]

Here's a 1925 Bruno (made by Weyman) All mahogany. I use it for ol tyme, when I can find a drop thumber.

[Hoovetone]

ANOTHER

[Michael H Geimer]

I've got both a Martin 000-15s, and a Mid-mo M-11.

I guess that makes me a fan of mahogany. I think the wood has such a distinctive / complex character - I'm speaking about it as a top wood here.

I've certainly wondered about how an F-style mahogany topped mandolin would sound. I also seem to recall Michael Lewis commenting that given the right graduations and bracing many types of wood are suitable for mandolin building ... but, I don't want to put words in his mouth either.

I recently missed out a sweet old Gibson archtop #- all mahogany - that Elderly had listed for $500! Missed it by an hour. Drat!

[billbo]

Most carved top instruments are spruce topped, or some other softer tone wood, like redwood. Maybe the mahog is not a good choice for carved tops, but can be worked as a flat topped mando. You do see maple on archtop guitars, but it is usually laminated and pressed.

[whistler]

I have seen an all-mahogany flat-backed mandolin by Martin (ca. 1920s?), in a shop in Denmark St., London. It was a similar shape to the one in the photo above, but had a fold in the soundboard behind the bridge, like a bowlback, and a nice 'fish-tail' headstock. There was also another of the same design in rosewood and spruce.

[mrbook]

In the mid 70s I bought an all mahogany A-style in a pawn shop for $20. It was very much like a Martin A, with a bend in the top behind the bridge, and at the time I guessed it was made in the 20s or 30s. The most distinctive feature was the brass (!) binding around the top edge, held on with brass tacks. It sounded good, played great, but wasn't the bluegrass instrument I wanted at the time, so someone else has it now.

It was a good instrument, and the last of my great pawn shop finds: I walked in on a whim, saw it on a top shelf and asked the price (never thinking I could afford it), and when he said "$20" I handed him the bill and was out the door in five minutes.

[vkioulaphides]

I have a generic, Sicilian-built, all-mahogany bowlback (other than the spruce top, of course). The mahogany bowl, neck and pegbox add up to a lovely visual blend. This is, however, a rather crudely, coarsely crafted instrument. I don't know that any comments I might make about the actual sound would necessarily reflect the qualities of the wood in general or rather the particular instrument.

Still, a pretty thing...

[Michael H Geimer]

" ... other than the spruce top, of course). "

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Now, does that really count? #... just teasing.

There is something mysterious and complicated about mahogany as a top wood. It took me a while to start hearing the tonal similarities between my 000-15S (guitar) and my M-11 (Flat-top mandolin), but they are there indeed. I now realize that my M-11 does not sound like a spruce topped instrument. It has a darker, warmer tone that peaks mostly in the lows and mid-range, but still has a sparkle way up on the top end.

Mahogany seems to bring out the fundamental note more than the overtones. I've noticed two things as a result.

(1) It records well, with a good amount of clarity and separation of notes.

(2) The richness of the tone can get lost in larger groups. I think this is becuase the overtones are quieter than those of spruce, so they just can't compete. My mahogany instruments can still be heard, and still have clarlity, but the tone sometimes comes through as 'boxy' since its the mids that are primarily being heard. This is based on comments from other players, and not just my own perspecitve.

People in the audience routinely comment on the distinctive tone of my Martin. But, those gigs are usually just me and one other player, not large jam settings.

So, given that mahogany is already biased towards the mids, would an arch-topped F-hole mahogany mandolin be redundant or complimentary?

All in all ... I am a big fan of this rich sounding top wood.

- Benig

[Big Joe]

With all that has been said, the real answer has been left out. There are many woods used in making mandolins and I've played many of them. However, none seem to cut through a band setting like a maple body with a spruce top. The others not only don't have the volume, but the ability to carry that sound far enough across the room. A good maple bodied F style mandolin can be as loud at the back of a large room as it is right in front of the instrument. The other woods I've tried have some very nice and cool sounds, but they lack the cutting power.

I believe the influece of Bill Monroe is significant, but not a real deciding factor in what woods are used. He did not care what they were made of, just that they cut. The fact that nothing else has that cutting power is why it remains the gold standard for ensemble use.

[Gavin Baird]

Big Joe,
As you said,"some have very nice cool sounds but lack the cutting power": in todays venue of pro players, and most of todays players have asperations, the use of good mikes and on board pick ups and pre amps have perhaps made the need for filling the auditorium with sound not as important as providing a well inhanced sound as you described..."Very nice and cool sounds"...g