The pancake theory

[Red Henry]

I thought I might bring up an interesting acoustic idea which was propagated many years ago by Link Orender, a fine young bluegrass picker from near Gainesville, Florida. I'm speaking of the Pancake Theory. Here it is:

Link said that all the notes ever played on an instrument don't disappear. Instead, they build up inside it, like thin pancakes. After an instrument's been played for a while, it will have thousands of those pancakes in it, all affecting the sound. If you've played good notes, they will be good pancakes. But if you've played poor notes or not used good tone and timing, they will be bad pancakes. So you better play the best notes with the best tone and timing you can, and it'll make your instrument sound its best!

This all made sense to me (and still does),and I've remembered it ever since. Link was killed in tragic accident when I was in college, but I've always remembered the Pancake Theory. What do you think?

Red

[Ernie Campbell]

Makes sense to me.

[kudzuklunker]

I've propped my webber up against the speaker and let Monroe soak in for a long time. He ain't come out yet. Just a touch of sarcasm there Red. Developing good habits is the bottom line.

[Mark Robertson-Tessi]

So he was just saying to always try and play batter? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

That's a good story, I like it.

Cheers
MRT

[Ted Eschliman]

I like the pancake analogy, and would go further. Sometimes I feel there's been thick, sticky maple syrup poured all over my playing...

[billkilpatrick]

ihop (heh-heh) you're wrong ...

i'd have to buy a new mandolin every time i turn a page in "the complete mandolisist."

[Hans]

But if you've played poor notes or not used good tone and timing, they will be bad pancakes. So you better play the best notes with the best tone and timing you can, and it'll make your instrument sound its best!
Wow, the fear factor applied to mandolins! Fear the pancake! # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Seriously, I do believe that a good player can influence the tone of a mandolin. This is my experience:
I am no great shakes player, but can keep my demos warmed up. But when I return from a festival and check out my demos, they all have made a leap in tone from the pounding they get from hot pickers. Then after a month or so they revert somewhat to a bit less than what they were. Now this is not the slow, steady "betterment" of tone in breaking in, but the direct influence of short time heavy picking. I don't believe that poor picking can hurt a mandolin, as any picking helps.
Maybe it's just the picker's influence on just which stack of pancakes is on top. # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[allenhopkins]

Mmmm...pancakes....

Also, what if you have a "pancake" mandolin (my Gibson Army/Navy Custom)? #Does that make a difference?

But seriously, folks (tell your friends -- I'll be here all weekend), the idea that an instrument somehow "remembers" all the music it has played, surfaces frequently in semi-serious, semi-metaphysical discussions of mandolins, violins, guitars etc. #Doubt there's any empirical evidence of it; hand me Grisman's mandolin and I'd sound like myself with a better mandolin, just as haphazard as ever.

Taking a slightly different tangent, the only empirically provable example of this that I've run across, was a New Orleans clarinet player who had inherited the instrument of a legendary Dixieland clarinetist (don't remember the name). #The new owner found that the old guy "really loved his garlic," and could never get the aroma out of the mouthpiece and barrel.

Bet he wished it was pancakes!

[fredfrank]

Mmmm...pancakes....

Also, what if you have a "pancake" mandolin (my Gibson Army/Navy Custom)? #Does that make a difference?
I would assume that you'd be able to get more pancakes into a pancake shaped mandolin. More efficient shape for stuffing.

[hoffmannia2k7]

Bad musicians ruin instruments.

in jest of course

[JeffD]

So if I purchase an instrument from a great player, do I get to claim his or her pancakes?

[entau]

I did play Norman Blakes old lyon and healy - a frinnd of mine had purchased it from Norman and let me play it on several occasions - nice box - very bright tone

I had seen Norman play "Old Mother Flannigan's " on stage in Troy NY - so I know it had many good notes in it

but when I played it - Nope - just my own ability and style came out.

[Jonathan Peck]

So if I purchase an instrument from a great player, do I get to claim his or her pancakes?
They only last as long as the trial period.....then you have to make your own pancakes. #

I know of a violin player who's father was a dealer. He was considered a child prodigy. While he never made the big time, he did go into his fathers trade and could play an average violin and put his sound into it. People would pay alot of money for such an instrument that sounded great in average hands....after time, the great sounding instrument would once again transform into an average instrument in the average players hands. Of course, if brought back to the dealer, he could once again transform it into a diamond and look over as if to say...I can't hear anything wrong with this one.

Why do pancakes taste the best at 4:30AM after a long night of jamming?

[allenhopkins]

I did play Norman Blakes old lyon and healy - a frinnd of mine had purchased it from Norman and let me play it on several occasions - nice box - very bright tone.
I had seen Norman play "Old Mother Flannigan's " on stage in Troy NY - so I know it had many good notes in it...but when I played it - Nope - just my own ability and style came out.
I have Martin Simpson's Sobell -- have had it since 1988 or so -- wonderful instrument, sounds great, but I'm afraid my mediocre "pancakes" have long since overwhelmed the fabulous flapjacks Simpson left behind.

I'm not waffling on the subject, either.

[JeffD]

Why do pancakes taste the best at 4:30AM after a long night of jamming?
Hoo boy, now we are into my kind of topic. That is sooooo true. Thank goodness Denny's is open, or the local 24 hr diner.

[Griffis]

I think mine is only building up air biscuits. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[Bertram Henze]

A perfectly modelled picture if you happen to like pancakes.

Playing well produces a happy memory associated with the instrument, which will in turn help to play well again. It does not matter where those memories are stored physically, as long a they are correctly associated (our brain works very "virtual" here), so imagining the memories to be located in the instrument means reusing the same process for it's own explanation.

It does not really matter that the same process works for Santa Claus, as long as it does it's job.

We software engineers like recursive concepts, sorry in case anybody got bewildered... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Bertram

[gnelson651]

I also like the egg theory:

You have to break a few eggs to make an omelet.

In learning improvisation, you have to fail #(have a few train wrecks) before you can succeed. That means not taking a pass on a break when given the nod, but jump in with both feet and give it a good try. Sometimes you make an omelet, sometimes you make a mess.

Pancakes and eggs sure go together. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Pass the syrup, please. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Pete Martin]

There was a great show called "The Secret of the Stradavari Violin" in rotation a number of years ago on the Discovery Channel that went into how wood changes when it is 1) vibrated and 2) aged. The best of course being an old high quality instrument that has been played a lot by top players.

I believe that players who get great tone vibrate the instrument more efficiently (thereby producing better tone), so I think Red is correct with the pancake theory.


mmm, pancakes (said in my best Homer Simpson voice) http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[Doug Hoople]

The Earth was flat for a while, too, wasn't it?

[Tom C]

It seems whenever I tune my flatiron and the tone reaches pitch, the volumn instantly gets louder. I could almost tune it to volume.

[mandocrucian]

The instrument doesn't care if you play random notes, or are out of tune or anything else. #As long as the top gets vibrated regularly (and you don't beat it and gouge it up) it doesn't matter if you remember the tune, play out of time or if your tone stinks or not.

If there are any "pancakes", they are stored in the player, not the instrument.

But the the idea could have made a good cheezy Roger Corman/Vincent Price flick...."The Mandolin of Dorian Gray"

NH

[Bertram Henze]

It seems whenever I tune my flatiron and the tone reaches pitch, the volumn instantly gets louder. I could almost tune it to volume.
That's because the other strings start to vibrate with the harmonic frequencies generated by the string you tune once it reaches pitch, so it's sound is supported by them rather than muffled out.
Pure physics, no pancakes. But I am with Niles here: the pancankes are in your head (not edible for others, sorry).

Bertram