Monteleone #66 for example

[woodwizard]

Last night I was invited to a little pickin session. It was over at a really great old time fiddlers house. Old time fiddle tunes was the theme ofcourse. I have to admit it was a lot of fun. Bill the fiddler had quite a collection of vintage instruments (prewar Martin D28's old Gibson mastertones, 1919 Gibson F4, beautiful fiddles and many more)AND a not quite vintage but awesome #66 Monteleone mandolin. Best collection I've ever seen in person by an individual beautifully displayed in a glass cabinet stretching the lenghth of the room and up to the 10' ceiling of his beautiful over a 100 yr. old home. Got to try some of them out like his 1910 Lyon Healy and his #66. That Monteleone was awesome. Bill said he bought it new for 1900.00 in the 80's. That dude was great sounding and played like butter ... so easy. This got me to wondering. Well anyway getting to my question finally. Playing that thing and knowing what he gave for it then I was just wondering what those things would be worth now? How much percentage wise of an increase and how is it determined ? I know many builders like Gilcreast and others have a long waiting list and have to stick to the price given at the time of order. I mean you could get one and turn around and make a big profit selling it right off the bat. Any one have any ideas? Just curious. Thanks

[AlanN]

Grand Artists sell in the 20s now. I bought one from the builder for 4.5K, sold it for 7K to Tommy Comeaux a few years later. Had I held on...

[Daniel Wheeler]

I'm not entirely certain but I'm thinking that the price of say Gilchrist or dudes new today if they were to take new orders would be largely dictated by the aftermarket/used value that those same instruments are going for.

[John Hill]

With the Monty name on it...if it's an A it'll go for around $15K give or take and if it's an F it'll go for around $20K give or take.

That is merely my opinion based on what I see sell here at the Cafe and dealers. The market can & will fluctuate but it seems to me the price range I mentioned is reasonable.

And by reasonable I mean insanely expensive but approx. market value.

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[woodwizard]

AlanN: Grand Artists sell in the 20s now. I bought one from the builder for 4.5K, sold it for 7K to Tommy Comeaux a few years later. Had I held on...
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Bill's #66 was a Grand Artist (F model) as well & looked just like the one David Grisman had. The neck felt like I was playing my Goldrush maybe a little thinner. He had no idea that it was that valuable now & said he would never sell it anyway. I bet you DO really wish you hung on to that one.

[AlanN]

Man, you really know how to hurt a guy http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I DO wish I had held on from a purely $$ POV, but frankly, it did not thrill me in the tone department.

[woodwizard]

Alan,
Understood... His was very nice I thought and sounded pretty dang decent but I like the tone of mine quite a bit more. I had never played one before and was still excited about it and all the rest of his candy. I was floating about 2 ft. off the ground. Man ! It must be nice to own so many awesome string instruments. Ofcourse Bill is a Doctor. I'm sure that helps $ http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[kudzugypsy]

i had a Monte for a while too Alan and i agree, cant say i miss it - i'd like to have it now just to sell it for $30k (obo), it was a nice mandolin, but it wasnt my thing. it worked for that *new acousic* sound, but it just didnt cut very well in a BG situation, and to be honest, that was probably NOT his intention when he designed it - he was looking for a different modern sound. it was great to sit around with a duo and play, but in a 5pc band, i couldnt drive it very hard.

on the "why not get on the list and sell it" question - those days are over - the top tier builders are aware of this and now its "market price" upon completion. I think Monte's GA is at $28-30K now, and on the secondary market they are $20-25K depending on the model

[RichieK]

I've got an early Monteleone Fern F-5 for sale now..it's a great 'Loar' sounding mandolin..
But more importantly, Alan...were you really at the Duke/UNC game last night? The atmosphere must have been incredible!
richie

[AlanN]

Yes Richie, I was http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

Hansbro had a great game (28 pts, 18 boards), but Duke was/is the better team this year. I saw NO Cafe-rs, though, even with the offer to sell any one of you a hot dog for $3.50 http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

And back to Monteleone, I handed it to Butchie once, he made a face...

[Jim Garber]

#66 must have been sold in the early 1980s. By the time i bought my GA mandola in 1985, GA mandolins were around $3000.

[RichieK]

Well, I handed mine to John Reischman in September and he said ' Wow, this sounds just like my Loar'!

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[Jonathan Peck]

A friend of mine has an early Monty. I could never hear him at any of the jams we attend. I've played it and I like the tone of it, but always thought what's the point if no-one can hear you anyway...and then he handed it to me with a tortise shell pick and the thing was waaaay louder and brighter.

I've seen them listed in the twenty's, but I've always thought that 18k was more realistic. One things for sure, the one's I've seen listed in the 20's seem to hang around for a long time

[AlanN]

I bet it's a hoss, hoss.

For those that don't know, Monteleone began as a builder of Gibson F-5 copies. He made around 25 or so (better folks chime in here) that were faithful to the Loar design. This is the one Richie has for sale.

Starting around 1977/78 or so, he came up with his very personalized take on what an 'F-5 style' mandolin should look like. Hardly even fair to call it an F-5, as the only things in common were the scroll and points. And the scroll was stylized big-time, to a hollow, elongated design. He re-did the whole tailpiece thing and pickguard. And he had his own headstock and fingerboard terminus design. Wonderful, skilled craftwork, for sure.

[mandolirius]

I admit to not understanding some things about the mandolin world. If a person had $12,000 to spend they could get a top of the line Collings or Weber, an Ellis, Kimble, Heiden, Red Diamond and a whole raft of other great mandolins. Are the mandos that regularly go for around twice as much really that much better? I'm talking about DMM's, Dudes, Gils, Nuggets etc. I'm guessing they aren't twice as much mandolin but something elevates them to the elite category, price-wise. I guess it's supply and demand on some level, but what creates the demand? Why certain makers and not others?

Genuine curiosity on my part, not in any way trying to get anyone's back up. Personally, I imagine they're all great mandolins and I'm sure I'd love them all. But there is an elite cadre of makers than can command the over 20K prices, while others seem to be coming in at what seems to be the market price for a top-of-the-line handmade mandolin.

[Tom C]

Too bad I was not into bluegrass growing up as he lived only 2 towns away. A friend has one of the earlier ones with the traditional style headstock. It's one of the nicest feeling necks I've played.

[SternART]

I have #64, best instrument I've owned. It is an F5.....next to the last one John built, and was made in 1982. He continued to take F5 orders for a few years after the first GA's, for players still wanting a more traditional look. Mine is a hybrid of sorts with the GA tailpiece and pickguard. John was about to start only building his own designs. Like any builder there are some that just turn out "pick of the litter", or "special". Or possibly the luthier is into a great batch of wood & a batch of instruments have something special going on.

This GA #66 that started the thread was probably a batch brother to mine. I've been privledged to spend time getting to know several other Monteleones and consider him a true artist, especially with his more recent work, it is like playing a sculpture. While my Monty F5 sounds very Loarlike, the newer ones are a different breed, especially the instruments built that he calls GA Delux models. His years of archtop guitar experience have inspired details like the floating ebony tailpieces found on the Radio Flyer models with their dolphin holes and asymetric pegheads. These tailpieces are found as well on some of the Grand Artist Delux models. John's newer work to my ear has a more open, and immediate sound. They are very easy to play, and the craftsmanship is impeccable. Unfortunately I've had to let go of my newer Monty's, but am on his list for one, that should be coming up soon. I'm surprised more professionals don't play them, they have some fabulous things going for them.....but the newer work definitely sounds like a Monteleone, not a Loar, and the best of them are exceptional tools for music making, as well as the hightest level of luthiery art. John has pioneered some details that a lot of builders use now, or experiment with. He was the first to design the cast tailpieces many luthiers use, and was a pioneer with revitalizing the arched fingerboard, as well as the floating pickguard. One thng I 've found is that playability is exceptional, they just feel right in my hand.

[woodwizard]

SternART: This GA #66 that started the thread was probably a batch brother to mine.
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Thanks for the info. I'll pass it on to #66's owner.
I know one thing for sure his played so easy. I really liked that part about it the most. It probably has a radiused fretboard right?

[SternART]

Yep, the arched board was a common detail on the GA's. Grisman started playing his Monteleone back in that era
because he was experiencing left hand pain....and the arched board seemed to help...but he has since gone back
to flat boards.

[mandolirius]

<Grisman started playing his Monteleone back in that era because he was experiencing left hand pain....and the arched board seemed to help...but he has since gone back
to flat boards.>

That's interesting. I've heard of people who love radius boards and wouldn't consider flat. I've also talked to those who, while admitting there's a bit of an adjustment, can go back and forth without particularly preferring one to the other. But I've never met anyone who's played radiused boards and then gone back to flat. Also a bit ironic, as it was Grisman who convinced me to convert to radius http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

The only Monteleone I've played was one that used to belong to Emory Lester (also a big fan of radius boards). I don't remember what model. I thought it sounded great, especially in Emory's hands, and was surprised he let it go.

[Hal Jeanes]

John Monteleone has certainly made some wonderful mandolins. #I am going to post a couple of pictures of GA #60 in an old thread about Monteleone in the looking for information about mandolins section.

[SternART]

Grisman has a few choice vintage instruments, and to keep them original, he plays the flat boards.
I'm not sure if he has a preference. As I recall he just overdid his playing recording the Hot Dawg
album, playing all the parts, and went through a period where the arched boards helped.