Mando melody ( or lack thereof )

[ngzcaz]

Attended a BG jam over the weekend and heard several
very skilled players going off on songs that had I not
heard the song in the beginning, I honestly wouldnt have known what they were playing. I guess a little of this is envy, but come on guys, at least play enough of the melody
notes that I know what it is. Still a novice, I know
enough that much of what is being done is scales.
I hate scales..... I hated it when I had that one ( my only one ) piano lesson 40 years ago. Sometimes I'd like to think less is better... or almost as good : )


There, now I feel better http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[John Flynn]

I agree completely. If listeners have the reaction that the extra notes obscure, rather than enhance, the melody, then the extra notes are showing off and not good music making. Unfortunately, I think this is all too common. It has been said time and time again that the space between the notes is every bit as important as the notes themselves. It is amazing how even some big names keep forgetting that. I think some players' technical ability can overrun thier artistic sensibility.

[onlyagibsonisgoodenuff]

I have to admit, I like to hear a little nod to the melody, even if the tune has been around the circle once or so. I think it takes far more skill to improvise around the melody and make it recognizable than to fill chords with pre-fab licks.

[Tremolo]

When I first started getting into bluegrass, I was blown away by people who could play with speed and threw in, what seemed like, a billion notes in a measure. Now, I'm more impressed by people who keep it simple. By simple I mean staying somewhat close to the melody.

After learning and playing scales, I would try to play these and improvise with typical bluegrass numbers, but it didn't have any emotion to it. It didn't have any personality. I was just playing scales and it sounded like it. My mentality was: Okay, I'm playing over a G chord, so I'll just play the G scale. Here comes a C chord, I'll just play the C scale...

Now, I've learned to really learn the melody of a tune and follow it. But then I can throw in a few extra notes here and there to add some color. Like many pros like Grisman has said(paraphrasing): It's all about "taste"...Knowing when to restrain yourself and choosing the right moments to add to the music.

[doanepoole]

What frustrates me is that alot of players seem like they have no interest in sitting down and learning tunes....they just want to know the chord progression so they can freeform over it. That's okay for jams I guess (not the kind of jams I like, though), but when it comes to getting up for a live, paid performance, and you haven't even learned the melody to the tunes, well that's just not professional....makes everyone look bad, too.

[Scotti Adams]

..I think just about everybody goes thru the "more notes the better" phase.....now that Im older I find the simpler the better...a few filler licks are nice...but tone is where its at for me now..

[doublestop]

I think another Cafe member said it best in a similar post a couple of weeks ago. The melody is what makes songs different from each other. Without the melody what do you have? I prefer a melodic mandolin and guitar player. On another note, I also prefer Tony Rice's stuff when he used to sing. His accompaniment and solos were much more tasteful and not overdone. I can only listen to a little bit of his stuff today without getting bored. I know I'll take some heat for that one, but I'd rather listen to Doc Watson anyday.

[jom]

This thread makes me wonder. What happens when I'm at a jam and I don't know the tune? My ear is not quite so fast as to let me figure out the melody during my break, at least the first couple of times. I generally don't like skipping a break if I can fake my way through it. But I've certainly gotten looks when I inadvertantly get too far away from the melody line.

Thats not to say that I never play the melody line. I know lots of songs, but I've also been in a lot of circles where the material is completely new to me. I enjoy these circles because they introduce me to new songs, but sometimes all you can do is fake your way over scales awhile, and hope not to piss anyone off.

[Tom C]

On intrumentals, many players will start off playing the melody the first time 'round. Then start going away from melody. Then the last time thru they come back to the melody to end the tune. you hear this tons when great pickers play together. Thile, Grisman, Bush...etc. I'm in no way saying that you have to do this to be considered good or great. If this is all that is done, it sounds just like everything else and you can't tell what tune it is. I stick close to the melody.

[sunburst]

I just now looked at this thread to see what people had to say, and I must say that I agree whole heartedly with the general tone of what's been said here.
I'm reminded of two things said by a couple of musical heros.

1, Bela Fleck once said "learn everything you can and then play 10% of it" or words to that effect.
2, Les paul said that as he got older and his arthritis got worse, he couldn't play all the notes that he used to, so he started to decide which notes were the important ones. As his condition got worse he had to decide which of those notes were the really important ones and just play those. At some point while listening to Charlie Christian he realized that Charlie had been doing that all along.

As an aging b@^jo player with mild finger problems, I'm not sure if it's musical maturity or limited ability that keeps me closer to the melody these days. And after all, who am I going to impress with a lot of fast fancy licks? Plenty of young hot players are doing that.

[Dru Lee Parsec]

Ya know what? I really LIke Chris Thile's work. I think his solos on "Waiting in Kodiak" and "Gator Stomp" on the woodsongs concert are just amazing. But last night I was listening to the "Weeping Mandolin Waltz" on Grisman and Bush's CD "Hold on , we're strummin" and I found myself thinking "What a great melody!" As I listened to it for about the 4th time I realized that even the trmelo they were using wasn't all that fast. They just made their mandolins "sing" the melody. It's a beautiful tune.

So I guess each style has it's place. Now I need to go learn that waltz!

[windsurfmd]

I totally agree. That is an awesome recording by Grisman and Bush. I've looked everywhere I can think of to find the tabs, chords, music - anything - for the Weeping Mandolin Waltz. If you find it I'd appreciate you steering me in that direction -

Maria