View Full Version : Waverly Tuners Again
Darryl Wolfe
Jun-14-2004, 7:07am
They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Here is my '23 Loar with Waverly's next to it. It's my understanding from McRostie that they fit '24's but not '23's...he's right
Love your nail polish, F5journal!
onlyagibsonisgoodenuff
Jun-14-2004, 7:26am
I guess I don't see what the big attraction to Waverly tuners is. I've used 'em on a couple of mandos and I guess I'm just used to stock tuners. I guess it's a "feel" thing.
Darryl Wolfe
Jun-14-2004, 7:36am
I knew I'd get a nail polish comment. #McRostie says they will make a modified set where they cut and reweld to broaden the spacing. #I figured I would check a standard set before I went that route.
Here's another pic from the back (more nail polish)
Hey Darryl
Why don't you just plugg the holes and re-drill http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
just kidding
Charlie Derrington
Jun-14-2004, 8:05am
It's even more confusing.
They fit some '23s. They fit my former July 9 but not the company's July 9.
Mostly, they will fit on the later '23s and 24s..
Charlie
Darryl Wolfe
Jun-14-2004, 8:20am
Thanks for the input Charlie....that seems to be the consenses....check first
Lynn Dudenbostel
Jun-14-2004, 12:03pm
I think the "'23 Loar" spaced tuners aren't cut and re-welded. I understand they are a completely different casting for the plate, set up for proper spacing on some Loars. They aren't 29/32" like the standard ones. I forget the spacing, I'd have to look it up. I've put two sets of these "special" ones on July 9ths, neither were side bound. On both mandos, they dropped right in the treble side, but required some slight adjustment to the holes on the bass side. I had to elongate the holes a bit and shim the bushings on one side, otherwise tehy wouldn't even go in the holes. No problem with the tuners, I just suspect the drilling fixture on the bass side was off a bit for at least some of the Loars.
Lynn
Skip Kelley
Jun-14-2004, 12:57pm
Darryl, If you play the Loar with that nail polish on, no one would notice what kind of tuners you have!
Darryl Wolfe
Jun-14-2004, 1:07pm
One more for the polish fetish guys
(orig tuners though)
frets1
Jun-14-2004, 8:43pm
Darryl, The polish is great. However, I appreciate nails for their for their true value. BACK SCRATCHING!!! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Brookside
Jun-14-2004, 9:45pm
Are they real? Or Lee Press-On Nails?
Darryl Wolfe
Jun-15-2004, 5:22am
Only her hairdresser knows for sure
Say Darryl. The Waverleys fit a certain 7/9/23 mando that we're familiar with. This agrees with Charlie's comment.
I'd probably hog out the existing holes. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Darryl Wolfe
Jun-15-2004, 6:59am
Interesting Joe...especially since the '23 you're referring to was made BEFORE mine
Ken Waltham
Jun-15-2004, 8:07am
Now you gotta love that terminology.
"hog out" the holes. That pretty much says it.... I say go for it.
evanreilly
Jun-15-2004, 8:25am
any suggestions on someone to repair vintage tuners; I have a pair that have one end of the squared-off shaft broken.
Thw Waverly prototype tuners fit my 6/13/23 like a glove.
twombo
Jun-15-2004, 8:43am
Looks like my last post dissappeared. In a nutshell. I would fit them based on the positions of the inner two holes to minimized alterations to thsoe pairs. At most maybe a .010 reduction in the string post diameter to ensure free rotation. On the outers it will probably require an adjust ment of the holes about .025 or .030 or so to get the fit right.
I opened up your .jpgs on my computer in Photoshop and made a copy which i cropped out everything but the Waverlys on one copy and overlaid that on the headstock picture. Then I scaled the tuners up about 2%... Voila! all holes and posts came into perfect registery. Looks like the holes are perfectly "quartered" (thirded??) when they were drilled at the factory but the overall length of the array of holes is about .080 or .090 too long (end post to end post) which equates to about a 30/32 distance between the string post holes.
Why? Maybe a new guy in the F5 shop at that time? Maybe a little confusion that occurred do to the changes happening associated with canting the tuners in at the top (according to the "Journal" ) that was happening in that time frame?
A little Industrial archeology puzzle for sure! I would be curious to see more data on how other instruments conform (or not). Interesting to note that July 9th was large batch and surely took a period of months for all to to flow through the building process. As a Charlie noted he has seen variance within the batch
I don't envy you, Darryl. Precious wood to contemplate modifying! sounds like it is in the right hands though.
Darryl Wolfe
Jun-15-2004, 8:54am
Thanks for the effort TWOMBO..that was about my take on the fit too. # #But, let me assure everyone that I won't be making any modifications to Lloyd. #Any mods will be done to a set of tuners. #The Waverly's pictured are a set I had borrowed simply to see whether the standard Waverly offering fits. #The original tuners still work ok, I just want to have an option should I choose to preserve the condition they are in...or should they suddenly develop problems.
gh_mando
Jun-15-2004, 9:05am
This can apply to "snakeheads" as well. I have a "23" A1 and a "24" A1 and the tuners are not interchangable. The 24's waverlys are standard 29/32 but the "23" has a slightly wider spacing but not as pronounced as Darryl's problem.
Tom C
Jun-15-2004, 11:02am
Sounds like issue with the tuners during the time, not the person who drilled the holes. Gibson probably had to compensate for a different batch of tuners that were different for whatever reason.
f5joe
Jun-15-2004, 12:17pm
Now you gotta love that terminology.
"hog out" the holes. That pretty much says it.... I say go for it.
Ken: #Us "southern American transplants" try to put things in language that the natives can understand. #I think southern-bred Darryl understands the concept of "hog out"!! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif
Lynn Dudenbostel
Jun-15-2004, 5:29pm
F5Joe, I've seen you "hog out" at Buddy's Bar-B-Que on more than one occasion, starting back in the late '70's! <G>
Dude
Brian Aldridge
Jun-15-2004, 7:33pm
Don MacRostie also told me that the plates are cut and extended and welded. I had him make me a set that does fit right on my April 25 '23, and also only has 3 screw holes per plate. They're an exact fit, and you cannot tell they have been welded.
twombo
Jun-15-2004, 9:43pm
I would have expected no less of you Darryl!! LLoyd has a good daddy!!! I applaud your efforts!!!
Your respect for the history of these wonderful instruments is unmatched. OBTW, about that essay you have been wriitng on "Loar Lore"... has it gone into print in the Journal. I caught the first part when you posted it to the Cafe. Can't wait to see it get added to the Journal. Will that be in the 4th printing (I believe mine is the 3rd). How many Loars have you photo documented over the years, anyway? It looks like you have a huge library to play with. Ever think about publishing them along with the Journal?
My friend Michael gets his hands on Loars periodically and I often get to be the transcriber as he maps the plates With his trusty Hacklinger guage. It is very, very, cool!!! I get to touch the Loars too! So far each one I have seen is assymetrical, bout to bout, both the top and back. Always curious if that was intentional or happen stance related to the master templates you referred to?
Damn sure should have bought one at 50K 4 years ago instead of 130k and up now. Your foresight was right on!!!!
I noticed that there were at least three or four different batches of tuners on Loars. And they seem to be used randomly. The difference is in number of mounting screws per plate (3 vs.5) and the worm "holders" edges were square or rounded. I've seen every combination of this. The ones on Darryl's Loar are 3-screws and square "holders". I've seen them mostly on early and mid 23 Loars. I've often seen 3-s./rounded on '27 Ferns. Is there any correlation between the tuner post spacing and this description.
BTW. Darryl, what is the spacing of your tuners?
Ken Waltham
Jun-16-2004, 1:57pm
Hey, F5joe!
Hog out... you're talking to a real live farm kid, who's pitched his share of pig s**t, so, I get the meaning. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
We might use "root out" up here.... They love to root in the mud.
I could only imagine "hoggin' out a Loar. Ooohh makes me shudder.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif