Hearing aids

[Patrick Bjorndal]

I have finally admitted that 30 years in construction, not wearing hearing protection when I should, has taken a toll on my hearing. Playing Highland pipes for 15 years probably did not help either. It has started to take its toll on hearing and playing music. I am headed for hearing tests this week and would like any pro's or con's on different types of hearing aids. I plan on taking to the Dr. but want real life information more then anything. Any help would be appreciated

[Roger Renfro]

I've worn hearing aids for 15-18 years. Once you get them, you'll wonder how you ever survived without them. You hear things that you forgot were there. That said, frequently when I take mine off before bed, it's a relief to not hear so much sound.

Suggestions --
1) Pick a top quality audiologist who is close to home/work. Be prepared to go back frequently for adjustments. It will taking some tweaking to make them work for your ears. Be anal. I wrote down my questions & concerns, so I didn't forget.
2) You pay for what you get with HAs. Spend as much as you can afford (or a little more).
3) The smaller the HA, the worse sound quality. Behind The Ear (BTE) work best, althouth I use In The Ear (ITE -- the big ones that fit ITE), because I spend a lot of time on the phone & BTE are not phone friendly
4) I have a neighbor who bought some top quality hearing aids from WalMart & just didn't get the post dispensing service that he should have gotten. HAs need to be cleaned almost every day & you need a dryer to take away condensation overnight. He didn't have any knowledge of these requirements. Go to a good audiologist.
5) I've had numerous different kinds of HAs. I currently have Resound Azure (brand & product name). They are, by far, the best ones I've ever had. I highly recommend them. The technology is astoundingly good. They work better for playing music than anything I've ever experienced.

I probably forgot some stuff, but this will get you started in the right direction.

[Khmando]

Hello,

My mother is hearing-impaired and my aunt is an audiologist. I second the recommendation to go to a good audiologist! My mom got a new pair of hearing aids last year, and she had to go back several times to get them adjusted. Once the proper adjustments were made, she was happy. An audiologist will be sensitive to your needs and will have you tested for how much of a hearing loss you have, what frequencies you may have lost, etc. Then, he or she can adjust your hearing aids accordingly.

[Spencer]

Just joined the hearing aid crowd after years of not hearing all that well. One of the things I was told by the person who fitted me was that it is it better not to wait too long, and it is easier to adapt to them when you are not desperate, and you are still "young". It takes some time for your brain to adapt to handling sounds that it hasn't heard for a long time. There are many different kinds available, and a person can find what suits them best, look around a bit. It is really nice not to have to ask people to repeat themselves, and to be better able to understand tv without having the sound turned way up.

If you have trouble understanding the tv, try turning the treble all the way up. If if makes a big difference in understandability, you might do well to get your ears checked. So far I use mine mostly for conversation, as I don't care for the sound of the mandolin with it.

If you are worried about vanity, there are some pretty discrete models available. I wore mine all Christmas eve for the first time, and my son never even noticed it.

For those of you with good ears, for heaven's sake take care of them!!

Spencer

[des mando]

one of my retail customers sells hearing aids as well as uses them and hystericly rails against didgital technology and swears they are vastly inferior and absurdly over priced in comparison to other choices

[Dave Cowles]

I've worn a hearing aid for over 13 years. Last year, I finally had my old hearing aid replaced (after a visit to a good audiologist) with a new, digital, in-the-canal model. The difference was beyond words. I don't agree at all with the above post about digitals being inferior.

That said, let's make this relevant to mando content. I sometimes have times when I must just stop and marvel at the sound I hear coming from my mandos or guitars. Believe me, it's not my playing that is so stunning, it's that I can actually hear all that the instrument is delivering. It may just be an undiscovered cure for MAS, because what you have in your hands sounds so great, you quit looking for something better. Naaawwww, that's hyperbole. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif Go git 'er done, and don't balk at the price of a good hearing aid. It's worth every cent.

Dave

[sunburst]

I hesitate to suggest this because I don't want to infringe upon his privacy, but you might try contacting Rolfe Gerhardt, builder of Phoenix mandolins, and before that, Unicorn mandolins. As long as I have known him he has worn hearing aids, and he certainly has a mandolin connection.

[John Kasley]

I use an in-the-canal type of aid. It has 3 "programs" or sound processing algorithms which can be set up for different sound environments. So I had my audiologist set one up for everyday conversations, one for the telephone to eliminate feedback(which is different in one ear only), and one for playing music in a group. I found that without that last program, the standard algorithm was treating the other instruments as "noise" and decreasing #the volume (much as you can have one of the programs set to reduce road noise while driving). Even so, I numerous tweaks were required...after one tweak I was getting horrible feedback from the open A strings. So I took my mandolin with me to the next tweaking appointment so we could observe the effect of the tweaking in "real time".
As others have mentioned, the key is to get a good audiologist and stay away from the outfits that compete solely on price...you probably won't get the after purchase attention and adjustment you'll need.

[Patrick Bjorndal]

I am searching for an audiologist that has a love for playing music. They would understand the connection that I am looking for. When I had to have surgery for carpal tunnel, I found a surgeon that had an appreciation for playing music. If they do not have the love of music, I don't feel they could understand my concern.
I am finding that they are expensive. For what I am going to spend on HA, I could buy some real nice "toys." I guess hearing is more important.

[kmando]

Be very careful of the term "Audiologist". There are hearing aid dealers that call themselves "Audiologists" (I believe Hearing or Hearing-Aid Audiologists). They do not necessarily have a graduate degree in the field of Audiology. It is important to select and Audiologist with 3 "C's" and an "A" after their name such as, "John Doe, C.C.C.- A. This assures that this person has at least a graduate-level degree from university and certification from the American Speech-Language Hearing Association. They will have extensive training in diagnosing hearing loss and recommending the best intervention. A good certified audiologist will do their best to fit you with a hearing aid best suited for your particular hearing loss and lifestyle.

And no I'm not an Audiologist. I'm in the sister profession, on the talking side. Oh yeah, and I play mandolin.

[John Kasley]

I second kmando's admonition about selecting an audiologist. This is the type of audiologist I selected. He is "brand agnostic" rather than selling just one or two brands, so you are more likely to get what you want/need rather than having to select from a limited range of devices. Also, he doesn't charge for follow up tweaking or for batteries for the life of the device.

[kestrel]

I'm still trying to figure out why I can buy a ZOOM H2 - a quite sophisticated piece of electronic equipment - for less than two-hundred-bucks, and a hearing aid costs two-grand.

Gene

[Dave Cowles]

I'm still trying to figure out why I can buy a ZOOM H2 - a quite sophisticated piece of electronic equipment - for less than two-hundred-bucks, and a hearing aid costs two-grand

Only a guess, but I suspect it is because the target market for a hearing appliance is quite small by comparison.

Dave

[John Kasley]

You might want to read this:
http://www.hearingresearch.org/Dr.Ross/why_do_HAs_Cost.htm
There is no short, black and white answer.
I don't know if it's standard practice, but in my case the audiologist doesn't charge separately for the hearing evaluation, fitting of the device, follow up tweaking appointments and batteries.
Is the audiologist's markup high? Yes, it probably is, but then he/she has a lot of overhead to pay for in order to provide a customized service.
BTW, although the cost of hearing aids are not usually covered by private health plans or Medicare, they are tax deductible (if you reach the 7.5% AGI threshold).

[kmando]

Sadly, I have seen with hearing aids, the same thing that I have seen with textbooks, drugs, and medical equipment. #Millons are spent on marketing, party-thowing, giveaways, etc. #Sadly, the consumer pays for it in the long run. #In fairness, it does cost to do reseach but I would bet costs could be cut in half if the parties and freebies were cut back. # #Oh well, guess I'm getting off topic.

[eadg145]

Back when I was part of the Rock 'N' Roll scene, I got fitted for musician's earplugs (custom) through the HEAR program. I highly recommend these for EVERYONE who works or plays in a high noise environment.
In any case, they seem to have a very good network of audiologists who are interested in the music world as well. Poke around hearnet.com and look for the network links. Good luck!
I am deeply thankful for my acute hearing, as well as the opportunity to protect this gift.

cheers,

David

[Steve Cat]

I don't want to sound argumentative but I know I come off that way so I apologize in advance, but "Go to a good audiologist and get the most expensive aid you can afford" is a black and white answer. What about how does one get an aid the lets you hear pretty darn good for less than the price of a car?

[Dave Cowles]

Steve, FWIW, I went in to the audiologist with a specific cost range in mind. I told them I want an ITC aid, with the best features I could get, for between $600-$1000. At a final cost of $800, I'm very satisfied. If you have moderate hearing loss and reasonable expectations, you don't have to get a 2nd mortgage.

Hope that helps.

Dave

[John Kasley]

"What about how does one get an aid the lets you hear pretty darn good for less than the price of a car? "

This article might be a partial answer to your question. http://www.audiologist.org/consumers/faq.cfm#quest10

As I understand it, the more you're willing to do yourself the lower the cost, the less miniaturization wanted/needed the lower the cost, the less after purchase support/service you want/need the lower the cost. Many manufacturers do not sell devices directly to consumers so certain techologies will not be available.

[Patrick Bjorndal]

Thanks one and all for the advise. I went the other day for an initial hearing test. It was determined that I should see an ENT Dr. to have a bunch of #### dug out of my ears. They got me right in and had that taken care of. Back to the store 2 hr. after the Dr. appointment to be retested. No change. I tried three different models in the shop and was allowed to test a pair overnight. I ran right home and locked myself in my music room and played around with three different "toys." Wow, what a difference they made. Singing with them is was interesting to say the least. I went back in this morning and ordered a set. Felt lost all day without them in. So far, I have been very impressed with the local store that I have been dealing with. I have a sister in law whose husband and her used to own a Beltone store. Visited with here this morning before I ordered. They assured me that I was getting a very decent price for a very good set of aides.
They are supposed to be here next Monday.

Thanks again for the information that was passed on. I found it very helpful and knew the questions to ask and what to expect. Thanks again.
Patrick

[Dave Cowles]

Way to go, Patrick. It's going to be a whole new world opening up to you. Reminds me of after my cataract surgery. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Dave

[Patrick Bjorndal]

I walked out of the store last night, jumped in my work truck very a pair of demo aides, hit the key and was about blown out of the vehicle by the radio. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif Did not realize how loud I kept the radio. Even one of my employees said this morning, they dreaded using my truck because the radio was always very loud, not to mention the strange music I listened to. (Celtic) My wife was so relieved to be able to turn the volume down on the television. She wanted to know why I did not get them overnighted!
It will be interesting to get a set of bagpipes out and see what they sound like. Volumn turned down of course.

[bryce]

Well I have been told that what I have is tenitis(sp). Extremely loud ringing in my ears with a lot of lost ranges. The people I went to see did a free exam. I was told that HA's wouldn't help me much. Has anyone with this type of problem ever gotten help from HA's? I would love to hear some of things I've been missing and if those crickets would shut up for just a litte while. They said it was probably nerve damage, but other than the headphones test they didn't do anything. I kinda felt that was just an assumtion. Any help greatly appreciated.
David

[John Kasley]

You might google "tinnitus" to find out more about the condition, causes, and treatments. If you haven't already consulted an ENT (ear, nose, throat) M.D, that might be a good next step to rule out medical causes. An ENT can also refer you to appropriate resources for treatment.

[Spencer]

Bryce, sounds very familiar. I was told I had nerve damage from chronic ear infections as a kid, and have had tinitus for at least 40 years. I learned to ignore it, but found with the recently acquired hearing aid that I have started to notice it more again either when it is quiet, or I take the hearing aid out. From what the hearing aid guy said about your brain getting readjusted to new sounds, I think it has something to do with hearing the high tones more again, which makes your brain more responsive to those frequencies, which is where my tinitus is. Far as I can tell, it is the same intensity, just that I noticed it more. It's getting better, hadn't noticed it all day until I saw your message, no problem with that. The increased high frequencies will probably distract a little more from the tinitus when wearing the hearing aid.

The long and the short of it is, from my experience, don't expect it to get any tinitus improvement from a hearing aid. My hearing is better with the hearing aid, though, and I think the improved hearing is worth what I believe will be a temporary thing learning to ignore tinitus again.

Spencer

[jimbob]

Huh ?

[mindology1]

Hope everyone is having success! I am in the audiology field and would be more than happy to answer questions!

[Bill Bradshaw]

Hi there Mindology1. I do have a question for you, thanks for offering. I test drove a high end set of ReSound hearing aids for at least 3 weeks. They are programmable and have a remote control unit. Like others, I couldn't belive what I had been missing from my mando without them. I about cried when I heard it. Anyway, I took my mandolin to the audiologist's office and we created a program for music. I was pretty happy with the result, but I've wondered if we could do more. I believe the hearing aids have some 17 frequency ranges that can be adjusted (high frequency loss is my problem). One thing that seemed to help was to switch off the compression function. Do you have any suggestions for optimizing hearing aids for acoustic mandolin? Thanks a lot, Bill

[Timbofood]

Great thread, My ears are certainly not what they were even a few years ago. I will keep my eyes on this (can't hear it anyway), I know more musicians that could benefit from this assorted information!

[D C Blood]

I wear hearing aids for everyday use...my wife first started noticing my hearing loss when whe'd call me to do chores and she thought I was ignoring her. Then I noticed I couldn't hear the TV well at normal volume levels. Fortunately I qualify for VA medical care, and got a very comprehensive hearing test (lasted well over an hour). Anyone who was in Vietnam qualifies for free VA hearing aids, so they set me up and measured etc for a pair. I needed them in both ears but generally I just wear my left one. World of difference. I can wear it for picking but have trouble singing with it, so when singing and playing I don't use them. I've gotten wonderful service from the VA in all my dealings with them. If any of you are veterans, give the VA a shot with your medical problems. Works for me.

[Bill Bradshaw]

I emailed Mindology about opimizing programmable


Regarding the aids: it really makes me happy to hear of your success and the gift of music is getting better. The one thing that I would suggest is that you have your audiologist reduce, not only compression, but also reduce the feedback canceling algorithms and the acoustic manipulation scenes that may be built in.
The feedback reduction can confuse overtones as feedback. This may cut the sustain perception from the instrument. Also, there may be an artificial vibe to the mandolin because of this. If you are using a program on the hearing aid for the purpose of mandolin only I would suggest turning off the feedback canceling for that program only....
The acoustic signitures help with wind noise, mechanical, etc... these presets can effect your mandolin tone as you hear it. I would suggest reducing that as well.
The rest is dependent on your loss too..
I hope this help and am proud to answer any of these questions you may have

[Bill Bradshaw]

I got the following response from Mindology1 about programming hearing aids to optimize them for mandolin. I'm taking the information and my mandolin to the audiologist next week. Thanks to Mindology1 for sharing his expertise.

"Regarding the aids: it really makes me happy to hear of your success and the gift of music is getting better. The one thing that I would suggest is that you have your audiologist reduce, not only compression, but also reduce the feedback canceling algorithms and the acoustic manipulation scenes that may be built in. The feedback reduction can confuse overtones as feedback. This may cut the sustain perception from the instrument. Also, there may be an artificial vibe to the mandolin because of this. If you are using a program on the hearing aid for the purpose of mandolin only I would suggest turning off the feedback canceling for that program only.... The acoustic signitures help with wind noise, mechanical, etc... these presets can effect your mandolin tone as you hear it. I would suggest reducing that as well. The rest is dependent on your loss too.. I hope this help and am proud to answer any of these questions you may have

[Bill Bradshaw]

I apologize for the double post. I was hitting keys thinking nothing was happening, when in fact it was. Needed new batteries in my keyboard. Bill

[Spencer]

I can wear it for picking but have trouble singing with it, so when singing and playing I don't use them.

Funny, its just the opposite for me. I can hear my voice so much better with them and I think my intonation is better when I sing. But with instruments, the high frequencies don't sound good and it's disturbing. The banjo is especially difficult to listen to ( no slurs intended here ) because of all the high bright overtones. There is some good information on this thread that I need to remember when I go for a upgrade.

Spencer

[Bill Bradshaw]

Funny, its just the opposite for me. I can hear my voice so much better with them and I think my intonation is better when I sing. But with instruments, the high frequencies don't sound good and it's disturbing. The banjo is especially difficult to listen to ( no slurs intended here ) because of all the high bright overtones. There is some good information on this thread that I need to remember when I go for a upgrade.

Spencer

I had the same experience until I got mine programmed specifically for my mandolin. I was getting feedback from the high notes. Not any more though.

Bill

[mindology1]

Depending on the level of hearing loss, I have had great success programming hearing aids for musicians. The biggest complaint is that the hearing aids sometimes sound unnatural and that the volume is often inconsistent with some to the notes being played.
The things I do to combat these issues is to set up a program for hearing speech (everyday use) and a program set up specifically for an instrument. The instruments settings can be fine tuned to give a particular frequency response roll off in the upper high end frequencies (3Khz-8Khz). This is where the artifacts of the "unnatural" sound is coming through. This is a result of a couple of phenomenons: 1. The hearing aid may thing these frequencies are actual feedback. 2. The individual is not used to hearing frequencies in the higher range that clearly.
The problem in the grand scheme of things is that this way of thinking goes against audiological training. So it is important to know this stuff ahead of time!
Jason

[Andrew DeMarco]

A certified audiologist will have the letters CCC-A (or CCC/A) after their name. This means they're ASHA certified, and stands for "certificate of clinical competence - audiology."