Another newbie looking for suggestions [Archive]

Leon W

Jan-24-2008, 5:13pm

Hello everybody, I am a new member here, and this is my first post. I would like to formally introduce myself first. My name is Leon, and I live in Denver, Colorado. I am a guitar player, although not a very good one. I recently decided to try out the mandolin. So I am here looking for suggestions. I searched this forum for quite awhile looking for answers, but everybody else was looking in a different price range. I am looking in the $1000 range. I could go a little higher, but want to keep it close to that. I am wanting a new model, prefer not to buy used. I suspect a lot of people will tell me to get an A model instead, but I have my mind set on an F model. I have had some bad experiences with a couple chinese instruments lately, so I am trying to avoid chinese made mandolins. They are probably good instruments, but not what I am looking for. I am planning on playing mostly bluegrass, if that helps any with suggestions. I know I may be too picky, and may never find a new, good quality, american made F model for my price, but any ideas would be appreciated. Thank you in advance for all opinions, suggestions, or anything else. I look forward to getting to know everybody. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Chris Biorkman

Jan-24-2008, 5:18pm

Welcome. You are going to have a very difficult time finding a quality new, American made F model for $1,000. They just don't exist. Sorry, but if you want a quality mandolin for that amount of money, you really are best off buying a used A.

If you insist on getting a new F, Eastman and Kentucky have some decent offerings (I think they are both made in China), but I think even those are about $1,500-$2,000.

Kentucky KM-1000 (http://www.elderly.com/new_instruments/items/KM1000.htm)

Eastman (http://www.elderly.com/new_instruments/names/eastman-md615-%22classic%22-mandolin-and-case--MD615C.htm)

kudzuklunker

Jan-24-2008, 5:29pm

Difficult for sure! Eastman, Kentucky, Michael Kelly among others are good products, some better than others. All made in China.

weleetkaoutlaws

Jan-24-2008, 5:36pm

biorkman nails it.

Alternatively, you may look at JBovier. They make a couple of F-5 variations (flat, radiused).

All solid woods, great hardware, nice chop, and great playability...all under your budget.

http://www.jbovier.net

I have the F-5 Vine and it's a great mandolin. I got rid of an American made Breedlove (Quartz) and I've never looked back.

Good luck. You may want to consider used models...to get what you are looking for, even then, it might be a stretch.

Leon W

Jan-24-2008, 5:58pm

Thanks guys. I guess I don't have much options at all if I am trying to avoid chinese instruments for my range. I didn't think I would, but I thought I would give it a shot. I did look at the JBovier, and they are some great looking instruments, my favorite is the F5 Tradition. There isn't a dealer close to me though, and I would like to play before I buy, so that is probably out, but thank you. I was looking at the Morgon Monroe MF6 at the local store the other day, and really liked it until I saw "made in China" even then, it was still a great instrument. I kind of have my eye on the Eastman MD515 right now. The list price is higher, but should be close to my range at selling price.

I did see the Glenn Mandolins website tonight, and they look real good, any idea on price ranges for an F model? Anybody have any experience with them?

Thank you all again for your help, I appreciate it. Look forward to me posting a bunch of stupid questions in the near future. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Leon W

Jan-24-2008, 6:02pm

Just looked up the Eastman MD515 on Elderly, $1000 selling price. Bingo...we have a winner! Any comments on this particular mandolin?

otterly2k

Jan-24-2008, 6:51pm

Leon -
Here's a link to a thread that has several MORE links to several MORE threads about Glenn mandolins. The upshot is overall great experiences with that builder, and people seem to think it's a very good value... especially for a small-shop builder here in the US.

Link to Glenn thread (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=13;t=48724;hl=glenn)

That said, there are also a lot of happy Eastman players around here. I'm sure they will chime in.

steadypluckinaway

Jan-24-2008, 7:28pm

JEStanek

Jan-24-2008, 7:29pm

Leon, I had an Eastman (814) and I really liked it. Consider a used Howard Morris F style mandolin as well as the Glenn for ~$1K US made.

I think some of the criticisms of Chinese made instruments should be fading or become less true. When Eastman started making mandolins (in addition to fine violins, cellos etc) they hand carved them and used violin finishing techniques. I think they made, initially a good mandolin and have made improvements. This resulted in many of the other Asian builders revisiting their quality. Now we have Kentucky and J. Bovier trying for a piece of that market. Quality has improved. Each of these brands will have instrument to instrument variation, each brand has it's own general voice (just like American made, or Czech, or Aussie, or wherever). Each of the imports will benefit from a good set up.

Don't forget to check the Café classifieds....

Jamie

Leon W

Jan-24-2008, 8:00pm

Hi Leon,

I am also in the Denver area (SW Littleton) and I went to the Olde Town Pickin' Parlor today. They have a pretty impressive selection there, I played a Collings F, A, several Krishots (excellent instruments for the money), a couple of old Gibbies and they have a wall full of Eastmans and Morgan Monroes. Unlike other area shops, this guy was super nice and came across as helpful and unjudgmental. As a mediocre mando player that has owned a few dozen, mostly online sight unseen, I can tell you that I won't be doing the online thing next time, I will go to the OTPP. If you're near DU you could also check out the Denver Folklore Center on Pearl st. They have quite a few mandos and still have some mid-mos on the wall. Let me know if you do go and check out either of these places and how they treat you.

Rob
I live in Lakewood myself, and was in the Pickin' Parlor on Saturday. That is where I played the Morgon Monroe MF6. I really liked it too, but was kind of turned off by the "made in China" thing. But that seems normal anymore, so I guess that leaves out a lot of options in my price range. I will probably stick with the Morgon, it was pretty cheap at about $600, but that Eastman MD515 sure just caught my eye. I cannot remember the guys name I talked to, but he had longer grey hair. I tried to catch the owner, but he was too busy to chat. I will probably head back up there this Saturday. If you are in the area this weekend, let me know...and maybe we can meet there. I take it you must live near Southwest Plaza area?

mandodan1960

Jan-24-2008, 8:09pm

Leon,
My 2 cents. A lot of us will want to point you in the direction of an "A" model not because we don't want you to look better than us at the jams but instead because our own experience with a $1000.00 "F" has not been very good. Disclaimer: But there are exceptions blah, blah, blah.
My personal opinion is that playability should be your number one concern. Forget tone,flame,vine inlay,black top,varnish etc. etc. A mandolin is much less forgiving than a guitar. The space between the frets is so small that accurate finger placement is essential and an easy to play mando will help. My own expensive mistake "MK Firefly" and my own experience playing other 1000.00 dollar F's pleads with you to reconsider an A model.
I purchased a Gibson A9 for $700 (some scratches)sold it a year later for $950.00 (replaced the bridge) it had great tone and playability and I wouldn't have sold it but my friend was ready to sell a Weber Yellowstone that was very easy playing and was a good price but almost 3 times the Gibson. I would have to say that my learning curve follows what mandolin I had at the time more that any other factor. (instructors,books,cd's etc.) I can't explain the "whys" but my own experience is that if you lined up 10 F's and 10 A's you would find more playable A's than F's. Thanks for letting me ramble.
Mandodan1960.

JEStanek

Jan-24-2008, 8:24pm

Leon,
I had a Morgan Monroe Collectors edition in Cherry Burst F5 copy. I bought the Eastman and it was a step up form the Morgan Monroe. The MM was a 2003 model and my Eastman was a 2004. I would try and steer you more towards the Eastman 515. It's hand carved and hand finished. However, if when you played them both (and ideally had them both played to you at a distance) and they sound the same, get the one that feels better, neck shape and width... fret size. I agree you'll get more tone and playability for $1K in an A than an F.

Good luck.

Chris Biorkman

Jan-24-2008, 8:30pm

I really agree with Mandodan. If you spend $1,000 on an F, you are likely to get a thin, tinny sounding mandolin. The reason people are going to point you to a used A is because it's the way for you to get the most bang for your buck. It's just the smart thing to do.

You can always upgrade to an f later after you have saved up enough money to buy a good US made mandolin. Mandolins are pretty expensive but you get what you pay for for the most part.

Tim Peter

Jan-24-2008, 10:07pm

Hey Leon, my nephew working on his bachelors in music at Butler told me after he bought his new expensive Chinese-made violin, "The future of music is in China." He then went on with a string of superlatives about his violin and some other instruments being made in China. The Chinese are making durn good instruments right now. "Made in China" doesn't = junk.

Folkmusician.com

Jan-25-2008, 7:31am

The Michael Kelly's are made in Korea, not china. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Strangely... The Chinese Mandos are catching up fast, but what still has me scratching my head is how the Chinese are making some of the world's best violins, and pretty much dominate at every price point, including the high end. Why are we not seeing more high-end Chinese mandolins? I am sure they are capable. It must be a demand thing. The customers are not ready for high-end Chinese instruments.

JEStanek

Jan-25-2008, 7:48am

Robert,
I'm sure it is a demand thing. There are orders of magnitude more violins made than mandos. There may even be more violins made in China than guitars... I'm not sure, does anyone have estimates? Chinese instruments are seeming to turn into the Japanese cars of the 70's.

Regarding the Eastman line of mandolins. If an Eastman is good enough for David Bromberg, it's good enough for anyone. It just may not be right for everyone depending upon neck shape/width, fret size or particular voice.

This link (http://www.giannaviolins.com/esmando/info/voodoo.html) is to the Bromberg quote and to the shop where I got my Eastman (which I still miss some). No financial interest from me just a satisfied customer.

Jamie

Folkmusician.com

Jan-25-2008, 8:44am

Total Guitars, mandos, banjos sold in the US is something like 3 million annually. Violin Family instruments are 500,000. I have not seen the latest statistics for percentages from China. I Thought they were somewhere around 70% of the worlds Violin family Production, and half of all guitars. I don't know where I came up with these figures. Don't quote me. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Leon W

Jan-25-2008, 5:28pm

I have been giving it alot of thought today. I am a new player, not even sure how well I will pick it up. SO with that in mind, I have pretty much settled on the Eastman MD515 as my choice. The reasons are several, price, reputation,and it is an F model. I know most say to get an A model, I expected that, but it just doesn't appeal to me the way an F would. I don't plan on playing professional ever, and probably never play with anybody, except for a few jam sessions. With that, I may not need a top of the line, best sounding, professional quality instrument. For what I want, and what I need, the Eastman seems to be the best bet. I do not have plans of buying something with intentions of trading up in a couple years, so if I only buy one, I should go with the F model, something that appeals to me. If I buy an A model, I may not appreciate it near as much, and not have as much motivation to play something that is just not what I want. The Eastman is a great quality mandolin, and will do more for me than I need. I do appreciate everybody's advice alot. It's nice meeting everybody from all walks of life with the same interest as me. I look forward to getting to know everybody better in the near future. #

atetone

Jan-25-2008, 6:38pm

Well, you seem to have thought it through pretty well.
Hard to argue with with your logic.
I have only played one batch of 4 Eastmans of varying models and one of them stood out soundwise from amongst the rest.
I don't remember which model it was but it doesn't matter. It is mostly just a trim level thing.
If you can, try to get somewhere where they have a few to pick from.

mandodan1960

Jan-26-2008, 8:17am

An Eastman is a fine choice Leon play the hound out of it and enjoy !! Ask around about where you can get a great setup and go to town.
Mandodan1960

Fretbear

Jan-26-2008, 8:32am

You might want to call this guy and see what he can offer you.....
Gianna's mandolins (http://www.giannaviolins.com/)

Leon W

Jan-26-2008, 10:30am

I have an Eastman dealer near me, the same one steadypluckinaway mentioned on this thread. I talked with steadypluckinaway, and we may meet up there next weekend. I would much rather go play a few, and see which feels best, than order off the internet. He doesn't have the one I want on his website, but said he can order anything for me. I like the idea of having a local dealer that could help with set up, of any other issues I may have in the future, instead of dealing shipping it across the country anytime something comes up. Here is his site...

Old Town Pickin' Parlor (http://www.picknparlor.com/)

Thanks again for all the help guys.

leathermarshmallow

Jan-26-2008, 12:53pm

I am no great musician, but I bought a J Bovier Tradition from Jeff Cowherd and I just got an email from Allen Jones of Glenn Mandolins, He says my student A model will be ready for shipping this week. It took less than two months for it~!

Leon W

Jan-26-2008, 2:55pm

Does anybody know the difference between an Eastman MD515 and the MD615? There is probably bout a $300 price difference. I could upgrade to the 615, it's a bit more than my budget, but I could swing it. The Eastman website doesn't have much at all for descriptions on their site, and the model differneces is kind of vague. If I like the way the 615 is equipted, I would probably pick that one up.