F holes vs. oval

[bienkow1]

I am in the market for a new mandolin and have been spending one day a week at Elderly playing a ton of mandolins, and with my price range I really like the Eastman 600 series...but I was playing a 614(?) with an oval hole and then the 615 and the oval hole had a terrific bark to it. At least to my untrained ear the Eastman with the oval hole was noticeably louder, and playing predominantly bluegrass, this is important to me. Is this common or is this just a case of these two specific mandolins? Is there any other benefits/negatives to oval holed mandolins? Becasue I am really leaning towards buying that Eastman with the oval hole. Thanks again in advance guys!

[mandolirius]

It's important to have someone else play them for you. Oval hole mandolins are notorious for sounding good to the player but not having a lot of projection. F hole mandolins are the opposite. Sometimes you get a better sense of the mandolin's sound when you're listening from a few feet away.

[arbarnhart]

While there are some exceptions, ovals are not the norm in bluegrass. F holes tend to give most people what is perceived as a better chop by most listeners (there are no absolutes, of course).

[mandroid]

You can set up an empty solid desk music stand straight up,
as a reflector, in front of you.

in a place that may have no blank wall to stand close to,

[perhaps because its full of more instruments],

or someone else to play the instruments you are auditioning,

[for long enough to comfortably judge the sound from your playing techniques, rather than store staff]

so you can hear whats going out in front,

by bouncing it back towards your ears.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

[Greg H.]

Get one of the sales reps (who plays mandolin) at Elderly to play the two of them for you. I never fully commit to an instrument that I haven't heard in someone else's hands (yes, I have ordered instruments online, but always with a 48 period in which I can return it). My Rattlesnake is very quiet to the player while everyone over 5' away complains about being drowned out so don't judge the volume by what you're hearing as the player.

[Jerry Byers]

For the engineers in the room, sound from oval hole mandolins tend to fill the surround area (much like wave physics). F-hole mandolins do this as well, but the sound generally projects (think packets instead of waves).

I hate to say that one projects and one doesn't because they both project sound; oval holes just tend to take their time getting around.

Other things to consider:

Decay rate - f-holes have a much smaller decay rate. Sound moves from here to there and dissipates quickly. This is what we generally refer to when talking about chop. Oval holes tend to have a higher decay rate - the sound hangs around longer.

Sustain (or ringing) - f-holes tend to have less sustain, where oval holes have more sustain (this is desired). Sustain is more of a function of decay rate and the physical design of the mandolin.

Given this, the sound you're hearing from an oval might sound louder - but that's because it 'hanging' around the player. If you were to stand in front of the mandolin at some distance, the perceived projection makes the f-hole sound louder.

[first string]

I'd like to add that while everything that has been said is largely true, trust your own ears. There's nothing that says that you can't play bluegrass on an oval (even if it isn't the norm). Some ovals don't have a big chop, though some do. As far as I can see that's the only thing that might make it more difficult if you opt for an oval over an f hole mando. By all means get someone to play both while you stand in front and listen. But if you still prefer the oval over the f hole mando, go for it. It will only make your sound somewhat unique amongst a sea of F5 toting players.

[JeffD]

I tend to agree with the above. I prefer the oval hole because to my ear the sound is better for just about everything I play, with the exception of bluegrass. Oval holes don't chop as crisply as the f holes.

But for celtic, old-timey, gospel, classical, klezmer and eastern european folk, jazz, singer songwriter, folk rock, etc., I like the oval hole's less percussive sound.

[pdb]

all of the above are very good points. I would also like to add that you may have instruments with different aged woods, or one instrument might have opened up quicker than the other one.

In general though, I have found that oval instruments have less bark or bluegrass chop but can actually be loud, especiall on the bass. They have more sustain and less decay than most f holed bluegrass instruments, and their sound is more directional and away from the player where as on most f holed instruments, the sound is pushed through the f holes a little quicker and the player is able to hear the sound quicker and more decisively. When comparing f and oval holed instruments, it's usually better to have someone standing a few feet in front of you tell you what they hear. I can judge an f holed instrument fine just by playing it, but I find it harder to hear exactly what's going on with oval holed instruments. Use someone elses ear that you trust for judging the oval holed instrument.

Always buy the one that appeals most to you regardless of what other people tell you. It's your money and you are the one who will be listening to it the most. I find others opinions to be helpful to a point, but you are the final decision on what appeals to you. You might even want them to play it and let you listen to see if you hear anything differently from when you were playing ( I believe this has already been mentioned). Good luck with your purchase. Eastmans usually come into the stores pretty green and tight. They will become much better instruments in time, just make sure you receive a good set up on it. Almost all pac rim mandos need a good set up out of the box.

[bienkow1]

Thank you all for your input...this board has been a such a valuable resource in my shopping around...thanks again for taking time top respond