Fat fingered beginner

[mrchurch]

Hello to all,

I am new to the forum and a beginner on the mandolin. I just got a Johnson MA-350 mandolin about two weeks ago and have been using Mickey Cochran's beginning mandolin video for lessons. I used to hack around with an acoustic guitar years ago (30 or so)but took no lessons, so I have some familiarity with freting and picking. I am reasonably satisfied with my progress with leaning scales,etc., but my concern is with my large fingers. My middle finger is almost impossible to fit between strings right now. The people I have talked to encourage me that they have seen mandolin players with large hands that play very well, but at this point I wonder how adept I am going to be at this. I really want to learn to play just for enjoyment. Anyone out there had the same problem, or is this typical for beginners? I know large or small fingers is a relative term, so it is hard to be specific. Will callouses help as I develop them? Any tips or advice would be appreciated. Looking forward to learning from all of you.

Michael

[jamesrenz]

Yes, the callouses will make the difference. You haven't been playing the mandolin long enough for the callouses to completely develop. Right now, the strings are still sinking down too far into your fingers. Give it more time. Also, as your fingers get stronger, they will arch better, and thus be able to avoid the unwanted string contact that way as well.

[mrchurch]

Thanks James for the encouragement. I suppose I will just have to be patient and continue to practice as much as possible.

Michael

[Bandersnatch Reverb]

As my old friend, and now famous musician Donnie Giovaniello once told me when I was starting out on guitar and had the same complaint - If Roy Clark can do it, YOU can do it. Just takes practice that's all. Lots of it!

[John Flynn]

I have large hands and felt awkward at first coming from the guitar. But there are a couple of things that dawn on you pretty quickly. First, unlike the guitar, most of the chords on the mando are constructed what I term "horizontally," that is, along the length of the fretboard, where big hands, with the ability to span a lot of frets, is an advantage. Second, unlike the guitar, the paired strings and the narrow neck really force you to press down the strings with the very tips of your fingers. This again can actually make a fat finger tip an advantage.

[mrchurch]

Thanks to all for the encouragement and advice. #I will persevere and keep on strummin'.

Michael

[ChrisWallace]

Hi,
I certainly agree that more practice will help with this issue, however I have another slant on it that I figured I'd share. When I first started out, I had an Oscar Schmidt (plywood special) and I was constantly muting strings that I wanted to ring out. I figured it was just a matter of practice and thought that I'd rectify the problem in due time. THEN I got the chance to play a Janish A5 with a bit of a wider neck and a radiused fingerboard and the problem was VASTLY improved simply b/c the playability on the Janish was light years ahead of my 1st mando. I guess what this rambling post is getting at is that...different mandolins are built differently. I don't know much about the mando you are currently playing but if and when you decide to upgrade, bear in mind that you can always find a mandolin with a different sized fingerboard and that might make all the difference.

Hope this helps!! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[TerryA]

Listen to Hershel Sizmore play. He has short, thick fingers.
Look at the videos of Django Reinhardt (the url is listed
on one of the discussions on this site)...played with two
fingers of the left hand. My point is that limitations of the
left hand are not the most detrimental item to good playing.
The right hand is more important. Then there's tone and
timing to work on. You might try an instrument with a
wider neck and wider spaced strings to help on the
equipment side.

TerryA

[eightstrings]

Let's not forget Mike Marshall. He says he has very large fingers (I think Josh Pinkham has called them "sausage paws") and yet he still remains one of the greatest mandolin players alive. He's adapted his large fingers to the mandolin and has found unique ways to play, such as fretting two notes (one note directly below another) with only one finger. Just listen to some Mike Marshall recordings and realize that you are not alone, you can do it too!*

Brett

*Intense practice required.

[mandodebbie]

Big fat fingers..hmmm. I've got lttle teeny-tiny delicate girly fingers. Caluses are forming. Problems are depleting. To each his/her own.

[mrchurch]

I like the idea about the radiused fingerboard and the wider neck. I would like to pick one up somewhere and try it sometime and see if it feels different. For now I will have to stick with my Johnson A-350 (import) until I get a little more experience and feel like I can justify the expense of a better Mando.
I have seen Mike Marshall at Merlefest (about 35 miles from here) and with Chris Thile at a live concert. Incredible players, both of them. If he has fat fingers at least I have hope.

Michael

[JGWoods]

I have big hands, and it convinced me I couldn't play, then I met a guy with bigger hands and decided to go for it. After a few months you won't have any problems, and I don't favor wider fingerboards. The regular size--1-1/8(?) is fine and every increse in size is a decrease in speed.
good luck
gw

[mandojosh]

Mike Marshall's middle finger is close to an inch thick and thats just insane, and he is in my oppinion pretty close to as good as it gets, he is clean, quick, and all of the above, and an improvising beast. And he like I said has some serious sausage paws, yes, sausage paws. lol

Josh

[Albert Whiting]

adam steffey has big ol gorilla hands also. man he can pull the tone and can play ultra fast

[grandmainger]

Mmmh. I am having the same issue (big fingers) but I get affected differently:
When I try to practice the A-chord:

# ======= #
# |-|-|-| #
# X-X-|-| #
# |-|-|-| #
# |-|-X-| #
5 |-|-|-X #

I simply cannot put fingers 1 and 2 on the second fret correctly http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

Any hints on how to practice this? or ideally any photo of the hand's position for that chord?

Thanks

Germain

[Martin Jonas]

Germain --

Two suggestions for that A-chord:

1) Use a different chord shape for A major (there are a number of alternatives), or,
2) Play it as a barre chord, with one finger laid flat covering the second fret of both strings. Takes a bit of practice, though, to do that without buzzing.

Martin

[Yellowmandolin]

Try this A chord position:

=======
X-X-X-X
X-X-X-X
X-X-X-X
X-X-1-X
X-X-X-2
X-X-X-X
X-3-X-X
X-X-X-X
4-X-X-X

[mandocrucian]

At the beginning stages, it is even more important to have an appropriate neck width in relation to your finger thickness. There's a big myth that the truss-rod Gibson neck width is "the best" for "everyone". #If you've got thick fingers you should probably have a wider neck (at the nut).

Yes, you might be able to compensate for the finger thickness on various doublestops later on but that requires a lot more fine motor/finger placement control than you will have for the next year or two. The fact that some name players have overcome fat fingers doesn't say anything except that it is a possiblity, but it doesn't necessarily follow that you will too. #I suppose you could get used to the discomfort of scrunching size 11 feet into size 9 shoes, but in the footware biz, I doubt that you'll hear advice to "get used to it, cause that's the only size we make".

Did you know that it is fairly common that your dominant hand is slightly larger than the other? #Glove manufactuters always tell you to measure the dominant hand for glove size. #It turns out that the index (1/64"), middle (1/32") and ring (1/32") fingers of my right hand are slightly thicker than the left. When I flip my pre-truss rod Gibson A (1-3/16") over to play left-handed, I can get clean doublestops more frequently than when I play my truss-rod F4 or left-handed Mid-Mo (1-1/16") lefty. Playing righthanded (normal) I don't have any trouble on any of those instruments, but then, I've been playing RH for 30+ years. LHed playing, I may be able to get the doublestops and chords without unwanted string muting, eventually, but it's going to require nuanced finger placement, depending on the situation - like driving near the shoulder of the road in some cases, or being right next to the center line in others.

I think having slightly more space between strings (if you need it) provides far more plusses overall than any minuses of "extra finger stretch" across the neck.

That's asking too much of beginners, imo. #Just as telling beginners they need to use heavy strings, an extra heavy pick, have high action etc. so they can get "better tone" is. As with weight-lifting, you don't start off beginners with the same weightloads as someone who's been at it for awhile. When you build up the muscles, then you increase the load. #If you're playing mando, maybe you work you way towards playing a narrower neck, if that's what you decide you want to do.

Niles Hokkanen

PS: I started playing left-handed so I could seriously analyze the mechanical issues beginning students have to contend with. #I now tend to test drive all the beginner instructional materials by playing lefty.

[grandmainger]

Many thanks for your quick replies. I shall use a different chord for the time being, while trying out the barre chord technique.

Cheers!

[Kelly_guy]

I play that A chord by barring with my index finger. Works great. I also have fat fingers, and I just discovered something last night that seems to help. I lift my fingers off when playing other notes, if possible.

I've played Fisher's Hornpipe off and on for years (one of the few songs I remember from when I first tried mandolin back in 1990). The 2nd half of the first measure is:

E-----------------
A----2--0---------
D-5--------5------
G-----------------

And I've always left my third finger down on that 5th fret while playing the other notes on the A string. I simply can't make it sound clean at anything above about 140 bpm.

So I tried playing it by lifting my finger clear, while playing the notes on the A string, then putting it back down for that last note. I can play it faster, while sounding much cleaner.

Yeah, I know it goes against all the canonical advice, but it works for me.

[mandocrucian]

I lift my fingers off when playing other notes, if possible.

I've played Fisher's Hornpipe off and on for years (one of the few songs I remember from when I first tried mandolin back in 1990). The 2nd half of the first measure is:

E-----------------
A----2--0---------
D-5--------5------
G-----------------

And I've always left my third finger down on that 5th fret while playing the other notes on the A string. I simply can't make it sound clean at anything above about 140 bpm.

This is just the type of compromise that one has to make when the neck isn't wide enough. It is not the most efficient way of playing. #If you are totally into playing single line stream, then it may not be an issue. #But if you are ever going to get into any of the across-the-strings techniques, or go for maximum efficiency of motion, you've got to have a neck wide enough (or combined with a radiused fretboard) to allow you to finger the D string and allow the G and A strings to be unmuted.

This is a problem I've encountered with my narrower necked lefty mando. I find that I'll have to lift fingers to get the adjacent string to sound clean, but I'm not that happy about it, since I know the limitations this will impose on other stuff.

Niles H

[mrchurch]

What is the widest neck that is available in a standard mandolin(not cusom made),and which companies make them?. I did see wide neck mentioned in some models, but don't know how much wider than standard they are. Thanks so much for the responses.

Michael