Kit or scratch for a new guy

[Zoomy]

I am brand new to this sport, and am looking for advise on whether to build from a kit or from scratch the first time. I want to build an F style mando. I have read that the woods in the kits are questionable. Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

[tmill66]

I am on my second - a siminoff kit - but I would recommend starting with an IV kit. I feel like I would be completely lost if I did not have the IV experience, plus the IV turned out nicely and sounds great. After I finish this one, I may redo the IV to fix all the things I know I can do better.

[otterly2k]

if you don't have a lot of woodworking experience, definitely kit

[Avi Ziv]

I'm new to this too and currently working on my my first - an iv A kit. Given my level of experience and lack of certain power tools, the kit is very well suited for me. I find that I'm able to learn a lot, customize the kit to my liking (made it an oval hole, changed the binding and the headstock veneer for example) and develop skills to be used on the next one. It's slowly turning into something nice as well.

Good to have you here

Avi

[Zoomy]

Thank you very much for the advise. I am having trouble finding information on an IV kit. Any suggestions on where to find these.

[Bill Snyder]

In case you do not know the IV kit stands for International Violin. They have SEVERAL different kits available. As far as the woods being questionable it is my understanding that the Siminoff and Stewart McDonald kits come with VERY nice woods.
The basic a-style kit from International Violin has so-so wood, but if there is a real problem with it (such as a crack or pitch pocket, etc.) Ken Wise is great about exchanges. I think some of their other kits may be a bit better and even with the inexpensive a-style kit some of the backs are very flamed such as this one.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/uploads/post-15-81753-blackback.jpg

There are definitley some kits on the market to avoid if you want a very nice mandolin, but if you go with the three mentioned so far you should be ok.

[Doug Edwards]

I'm working on a StewMac A5 kit. It seems to be a bit more hands on thant the IV kit. I may try an IV F5 kit next and I want to build an A5 from scratch. Having the kit gives me opportunity to "tool up" and make jigs for the from scratch venture.

Here's the IV:
http://www.internationalviolin.com/SearchB....Code=58 (http://www.internationalviolin.com/SearchByCategory.aspx?CategoryCode=58)

[Bill Snyder]

You need to go to page 2 from Doug's link to see the f-5 and f-4 kits.

[Zoomy]

WOW, the IV kit looks a little less intimidating than the others. I think that looks like a good way to start, and collect a few tools along the way. Thanks again!!!!!

[Spruce]

"I have read that the woods in the kits are questionable."

Most of the woods I've seen in the various kits are just fine.....

"Kit or scratch for a new guy"

I'd go scratch....

The stuff that a kit does for you--carving the plates, bending sides, shaping the neck--are all easy and fun to do....
An F5 is a bit more of a challange, but still doable for a "new guy"....

I'd build an A from scratch, then progress to an F...
YMMV....

Luck!

[Bill Snyder]

Zoomy for reference Spruce who just posted above is a tonewood dealer and one with a very good reputation around the Mandolin Cafe.

[mandolinplucker]

For a little over $100 you get a kit that contains everything to build a nice mandolin except the glue and finish and a good book to explain how to put it together. For me it was money well spent. I got my first one mostly for a learning process, but it turned out to be my every day instrument. I had to get over the need to have the scroll but after you play an "A" for a while you don't miss the curly-que. International Violin has "F" style kits with flamed and unflamed "F" kits too. There is less work that you have to do to the IV kits than the others but there is enough to let you learn a lot about construction and finishing and to let you know if this is something that you want to get into.

[Stephanie Reiser]

If you have some wood working experience, and some woodworking tools (or access to them) and have patience - not in a hurry, and a place to work, then most definitely scratch build.

I think the key to making the decision about kit or scratch for your first mandolin is how important it is to you to be successful on that first build. If you really want to be successful on your first try that IV A kit would be a good start.

You will get a really good idea about how mandos go together and you'll have that finished first one to play while you are working on the next one.

Your fourth from scratch one will be the first really good one unless you just keep tossing things you want to do better and starting over.

[RevJB]

I'm really tempted with getting an IV A-kit but does it come with a template for an oval hole?

[Bill Snyder]

This kit (http://www.internationalviolin.com/item_detail.aspx?ItemCode=MK7) from International Violin does not have a hole cut and could be made an oval hole. I do not know that it comes with a template for the hole but that would not be difficult to come up with. It would be what some people call a hybrid oval hole in that it will have a neck like most people's A-5's and not like the old oval hole Gibsons.

[buddyellis]

I think the IV kits are a cheap/easy way to get your feet wet, I've built six or seven of them including one 'hybrid' of sorts where I used the neck/rim from one that had some plate issues, and carved my own plates.

The only potential problem I could see with an oval hole, is the top is not designed with the 'ramp' on a normal oval hole. I do not know how this would affect the instrument structurally, but I'm not sure it would be that big of a deal. I know several have made oval hole kits, and coming up with a template for the hole shouldn't be that big of a deal.

A few recommendations if you do get an IV kit:

Throw the tuners in the trash, along with the bridge, and probably the binding (rebinding the neck is NOT that hard at all)

Build a thickness caliper, and be careful about plate thickness, especially near the tailpiece. Do NOT go below .110 or so. The wood in the kit is a little less stiff than 'loar spec' material so you really should aim a little thicker.

[RevJB]

So could someone give a detailed instructions on how to turn an IV kit (without sound holes cut out) to an oval hole top?

I'm definitely going to go with Gotoh tuners and different bindings, along with trying a french polish.

Thanks again folks! Much appreciated.

[Bill Snyder]

I would think that the only things you would need to alter for the oval hole is the bracing. Most modern day luthiers use x-bracing for oval holed mandolins (do a search of the forum for lots of information on x-bracing). Find out what size hole and print something up with your computer. Locate the centerline on the top and determine where to put the hole up and down and glue your pattern to the top. Cut the hole a bit inside the line and file/sand to the line.
If you want to add a rosette around the hole there are a few threads on that also.
There is a tutorial of sorts here (http://www.banjodog.com/flinthillsmandolins/tutorial_rosette.html) on the rosette.

[RevJB]

That link was very helpful. I didn't know it took that type of work to create a nice rosette! I will definitely try that as well. Thanks Bill! Now I'm off to research the x-bracing...

[Avi Ziv]

I've been working on an oval-hole IV kit for a while now....too long...but that related to my time constraints and not to the kit. I struggled with trying to figure out the hole and bracing and eventually went ahead with some decisions. So far I'm happy with the results although the instrument is not complete yet. You can search back in my blog and see the notes and photos on these topics. I'm making various other changes such as different binding (the biggest challenge for me so far), new headstock ebony plate and (soon) shell inlay.

I took Buddy's advice on the tuners and just got some Ping tuners. Although not expensive, they are a significant upgrade to what comes with the kit. Thanks Buddy!

If you like the hole that I cut, I can send you the template that I had made - just drop me an email

Good luck,
Avi

[arbarnhart]

I cut an "oval" hole in my scratch built flat top A by finding a picture of one I liked and just playing with percentage zoom on the copier until I got it the right size.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e396/arbarnhart/mandocomplete.jpg

[RevJB]

Avi,

Wow! It's going to take some time to read through your blog but it sure seems that your blog holds a wealth of information and suggestions for someone like myself going down a similar road. I'll definitely ask more pointed questions once I start but it's a great encouragement that you've done so much with a Dremel and a power drill!

I am most likely going to go with the IV kit without sound holes, new bindings, perflings, rosette, and basic geometric inlay for the fingerboard and headstock, with Gotoh tuners. Are the Gotohs better than Ping?

Thanks again to everyone for suggestions and information. I love this site!

[Rick Crenshaw]

My first was a Stew-Mac F5. It is a bit ambitious for the newbie unless you have shop experience of some kind. Still, tone bars, thicknessing... all are tough calls on the first go round. Still mine came out ugly but sounds very good.

I have another F5 kit ready to start at some point, but were I to recommend to a beginner, I'd say the Stew-Mac A5 is probably the best balance of being lots of hands on work to do without the hassle of bending sides and messing with that dang scroll. The IV kits to me seemed like just basically finishing experience. I want to remove some wood.

[Larry Simonson]

An IV kit with book for around 100 bucks is a fraction of what a 3 credit college course will cost, and completing the kit will give you a great START in learning about mandolin construction. I really enjoyed completing mine and have now started one from scratch. I have been content to see if I can build one that is physically stable and looks ok. If I am successful with this, I hope someday to figure out how to build one that sounds good.