Rosewood mandolins

[Alex Fields]

This question applies to players too, but I'd be a bit more interested in answers from luthiers who have experience with this, which is why I posted the question here...this may not be the right forum though? If not, my apologies.

What are the qualities of rosewood as a tonewood for mandolins? Tonal differences, difference in response, resonance vs. cut, etc. I understand it is used a lot for guitars, but I've very rarely seen it on mandolins--I think I've played one mandolin ever that had it, and I remember that I liked it and thought it sounded distinctly different from maple mandolins I'd played, but I can't remember anything about the sound beyond that. A recent conversation with a luthier about a mandocello I'm ordering has me very interested in this wood and how it would sound on a mandolin.

Also, a link to a webpage with detailed descriptions of the characteristics of various less common woods (especially as applied to mandolin) would be very helpful. I recall visiting a page like that before but have no idea where it was.

[Andrew Lewis]

I had a Mid-Mo M-4 that had RW back and sides. It's been awhile since it moved on so I can't really give you a good characterization of the tone other to say it sounded really good. More guitar-like. Mellower than maple. Not as mellow as some mahog mandos I've played though. That said, though, it was a flattop round hole, so that certainly plays into it as well.

[Ken Feil]

For many years Jesse McReynolds of Jim & Jesse and crosspicking fame played a Stiver mandolin with rosewood back and sides. While I can't address the tonal qualities of rosewood, there are numerous recordings of McReynolds playing that mandolin. That might help.

Ken

[Alex Fields]

I don't have any Jesse McReynolds albums, could you refer me to one or more where he plays that mandolin? Thanks.

[Michael Lewis]

So many possibilities with ANY wood, but there are some distinct qualities of rosewood that effect tone. Rosewood is usually quite heavy, stiff, and resiliant. These qualities tend to result in a lot of sustain, clarity of frequencies, and if carved thin enough a resonant acoustic response.

My experience with rosewoods is limited to flat top guitars and carved mandolins, so take what I offer with a grain of salt.

There are several woods that can produce very similar results to rosewood. Some that come to mind are padauk, black locust, osage orange, and many of the tropical woods that ring well when tapped.
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[Ken Feil]

Alex, any but his most current CDs. A real resourse however would be the Homespun DVD "Classic Bluegrass Mandolin". There he briefly talks about the rosewood back and sides on his mandolin and how it sounds. Also you get hear it a lot. And, I believe some of the old Martin mandolins had rosewood back and sides. Hope this helps.

Ken

[Alex Fields]

It does indeed help. I'll try to find someone who has that DVD and will let me borrow it.

[Dave Hanson]

Rosewood is used quite a lot for mandolins here in the UK, makers like Stefan Sobell and Paul Shippey make top class mandolins with it, my own Paul Shippey has rosewood back and sides and a sitka top, it's hard to imagine a better sounding mandolin, or perhaps that is because Paul is such a gifted luthier. clear ringing high notes, sweet mellow mids and a wonderful deep bass response.

Dave H

[PseudoCelt]

I also have a sitka/rosewood mandolin by Paul Shippey and I agree with what Dave says. It's worth mentioning that while the top is carved, the rosewood back is flat (similar to most Sobells), which may affect the tone. It doesn't have a bluegrass sound, but suits almost anything else.

You may also be interested in the "Great Mandolin Woods Experiment (http://theacousticmusicco.co.uk/erol.html#4042X0)" on the TAMCo website - four oval hole mandolins from Bill Bussman, with top wood from the same tree and maple, walnut, mahogany and rosewood backs/sides. They are being evaluated by Simon Mayor and Dan Beimborn.

Patrick

[trevor]

Patrick,
Thanks for mentioning that. They are currently with Simon Mayor again for a full review for Acoustic Magazine. As soon as I get them back I will get them to Dan for his opinions, then I will post something in the general discussion section.

[Gibsonman]

Go to Stan Miller's web-site. He will tell yoy all about it.

[Big Joe]

Rosewood can be a great sounding mandolin back wood. Martin used it in many of their bent top mandolins. However, for most mandolin players they are looking for the "conventional" tone of Maple and Spruce. Rosewood will be different from that. I don't think one can quantify it as better or worse, just different. When at Gibson we built one Master Model from Cherry back and sides. It was a great sounding mandolin a very nice to the eyes. It was not conventional in tone or appearance though. We were going to build a walnut MM just to see what it would look and sound like, but that project never got done.

Rosewood is a very attractive wood with great qualities. It does not have the same flame as Maple though and the tone will be different. This takes it from the 'norm' to something less desireable in the market place as a whole. It may be highly desireable for some, but that segment of the market is much smaller than the known entity of Maple.

If you like Rosewood, try one. I don't think you will be dissapointed at all.

[JEStanek]

Alex, Chris Baird of Arches Music (http://www.archesmusic.com/materials.htm) has a page detailing his take on different tonal qualities of back woods. #Folk of the Wood has A/V clips (http://www.folkofthewood.com/page2518.htm#midmissouri) of the different Mid Mo styles where you can hear some differences. #I don't know how much this will translate into an arch top/back.
Frankly, a lot depends on how familiar your builder is with different backwoods and how to get the best sound out of them to exploit their tonal potential. #Different woods require different carving for optimal tone. #Be sure you and your builder are comfortable with your choices.

Personally, I am excited to read the TAMCO report as I have played an Old Wave mando once (rally dug the A-oval sound) and dig this experiment.

Jamie

[trevor]

Jamie,
Initial thoughts from Simon Mayor are already there, on the Old Wave page;

http://www.theacousticmusicco.co.uk/erol.html#120x0

[JEStanek]

Thanks, Trevor (Thanks Thanks Thanks - for organizing, publishing, and referring to the experiment). I envy your Lab!

Jamie

[otterly2k]

REally fun to listen to these mandos back to back - each has such lovely tone, it's hard to say which I like best. thanks for doing and publishing this...
KE

[Red Henry]

At a SE CoMando gathering a year or so back, I played a rosewood mandolin made by Dave Cohen, and really liked the tone of it. So rosewood seems to do quite well in a mandolin's sides and back.

On the other hand, rosewood (either Indian or Brazilian) does not seem to make a good bridge wood, producing a rather thin and weak sound compared to maple and several other woods. (I say this after making bridges from 30 or 40 different woods.) Maple turns out to make the best-sounding bridges overall. Acoustic results of 18 bridges I made from different woods are at http://www.murphymethod.com/18bridges.html

[delsbrother]

It does indeed help. I'll try to find someone who has that DVD and will let me borrow it.
[Off-topic]While you're at it, see if you can find a copy of Norman Blake's Homespun mandolin video. On it you will be able to hear Norman and Nancy play old-time music on a Lyon and Healy Style B, a couple of nice oval hole Gibsons, a Martin flattop, and a Lloyd Loar F5. Makes for a nice little mandotasting![/Off-topic]

[T W Perez]

Barry Kratzer of Bulldog mandolins has made several,he was playing one at a festival recently and it sounded fine,ck out his website.

[Chip Booth]

I had the chance to play a number of mandolins (Fs and As all with F holes) by the same builder, made from a variety of woods includng rosewood, on both top and back. It was interesting, but I have to say that in the end they all sounded like F hole mandolins. Some were better to me than others, just like you would expect from any batch of instruments.

I have a lot of experience with guitars made from various tonewoods, and I can generalize about say the the difference in rosewood and mahogany on a flatop guitar, but with these mandolins I can't do that. I think I would have to hear a dozen or more made from rosewood to have any sort of firm opinion. But the few samples I have heard lead me to believe that the basic sound I expect from an F hole mandolin has more to do with the nature of the construction that the woods it is made from.

Oh yeah, and I not a builder in any way!

Chip

I have a Trinity College prototype (flat top and back) that has solid Rosewood back and sides. So far it seems a bit more full sounding than their typical maple backed mandolins. LOUD but no harshness to the tone, it cuts through well but doesn't attack the ears. It responds well to playing dynamics. I'm really looking forward to finding out how it ages.

I'm sure I am a bit predisposed to liking this mandolin since I prefer rosewood backed guitars.