Finding the sweet striking spot

[alt_2ooning]

Lookin’ for the sweet 'striking' spot on F style mando with extended fingerboard.

http://www.mandoweb.com/48-4796.jpg illustrates a John Monteleone custom mando with an ‘abbreviated’ fingerboard …….according to the owner (Phil Rosenthal of The Seldom Scene) the custom built mando with the shortened fingerboard was designed to enable access to ‘sweeter’ striking spot without the conflicting fingerboard interference …please read on ….

…the following URL illustrates the process to scallop the fingerboard in the high registers with the purpose to make the striking sweet spot attainable
http://www.frets.com/FRETSPa....ue.html (http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Mandolin/DropTongue/droptongue.html)

…my question then to the mando luthiers is, "does doing the modification as illustrated impact the integral structure of the combined neck/fingerboard ?"…….my hope is that it does not as I believe it to be strictly an aesthetic alteration…….I plan on doing this modification and need some input…..yes I realize this modification would negatively impact the value of a vintage mando and void any warranty on one still under warranty ….that doesn’t ‘cramp’ my intent, however structural weakening the neck does….the bottom line is ‘finding the purist striking spot’ as I tend to agree with the content of what Phil states regarding the sweet spot.

Many thanks for any input.
Stoney

[alt_2ooning]

Scroll down to sub-index 48-4796 for detailed info #on the Monteleone custom and what Phil has to say about this masterpiece…….. http://www.mandoweb.com/15_MandolinFam.htm

[woodwizard]

Go for it man. That's why I like my Goldrush's fretboard. Wide open sweetspot. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[alt_2ooning]

Mike

The Monteleone custom is cut back to 17th fret, that's where I was planning on goin' to ...besides beyond the 17th is a territory I never explore....your Goldrush has 24 ....makes me wonder if cutting back to the 17th is worth the aesthetic risk .

Stoney http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[woodwizard]

Stoney,
My goldrush has 23 frets actually and it looks like the elevated part of the fretboard hanging there starts at the 18th fret. On second thought I'm not sure I would go that far. It might be ok but why take a risk. I have plenty of sweet spot as you say. No clicking like I had on my F5G & A5L I had in the past. I really liked the way my F9 felt with it sort of just cut off. The length of the F9 was very simular to the goldrush. Maybe the goldrush is just a little longer. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[sunburst]

Here's a thread, (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=48571;hl=scoop)
and another, (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=15;t=45604;hl=scoop)
and one more, (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=42914;hl=scoop)

There are others, I just searched "scoop".

[alt_2ooning]

Thanks John and Mike:

I'll take it back to reveal no less than #23 frets for a start and continue to search for the sweet spot....if need be I'll take it back one fret at a time if I need more 'sweetness' till I get 'er personalized to my liking....pretty .aesthetics don’t count … ‘pretty’ tone does …that evasive quality is difficult to #‘corral’ …I think you have provided me the info I need and many thanks.

In the common bond of Mando modification #

"The notes I handle no better than many mandolinists…..but the pauses between the notes—ah, that is where the art resides."

Stoney
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[markishandsome]

You should be able to pick above the fingerboard and locate your sweet spot without laboriously paring back the board one fret at a time. The fretboard doesn't really restrict access to picking the spot, it just causes a little clicky noise that some folks don't like. You should figure out where you get the tone you like best before you make irreversible alterations to your instrument. The 17th fret is about half way between the bridge and the most commonly used frets (3-7). That's way further up than 99% of people play their mandolins. I'd bet you wouldn't like the tone you got up there. Seriously though, your "search" for the sweet spot shouldn't take more than half and hour of picking, even with the fretboard intact. If it does, you might be looking for something that just isn't there. Or am i missing something?

[alt_2ooning]

>>That's way further up than 99% of people play their mandolins. I'd bet you wouldn't like the tone you got up there. <<

Mark, your input is much appreciated …however I’m going to swing full circle and go back to the http://www.mandoweb.com/48-4796.jpg and the scroll down to sub-index 48-4796 on
http://www.mandoweb.com/15_MandolinFam.htm ….having stated that it would appear the comments of Phil might be conflicting with the suggestion that tone at or around the 17th might be a nuance of tone that would not be liked lest his commissioning John to design the abbreviated fingerboard dying out at the 17th fret. …perhaps I am looking for something that doesn’t exist then again perhaps it does …..without ever discovering through trial and ‘God forbid’ irreversible error if it doesn’t exist #, I’ll never know.

I am aware of what you state regarding a half hour to discover the sweet spot …..probably more correct to say it can be ascertained within a few seconds….however I still feel the dynamics of tone can only be truly assessed under full attack …therefore tone affected by the hindrance of the finger board and the click interference under full attack before removal of the fretboard leads me to believe there will result two nuances of tone….a before and after version. I respectfully ask then "Am I missing something?"


----------------------------------------------------------
Always pass on good advice. It is the only thing to do with it. It is never of any use to oneself.
Oscar Wilde

Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer but wish we didn’t.
Erica Jong
-----------------------------------------------------------

Stoney

[markishandsome]

I think what you're missing is that Phil's Monte is a really extreme case of fingerboard shortening. Most folks who have their fingerboards scooped or abbreviated cut back to around the 23rd fret like the Goldrush or maybe back to the 21st. I would also suggest that it is in fact possible to assess your tone even under full attack with the board intact. It might take a little extra effort to learn to pick without clicking against the board, but it is by no means impossible. Since you seem to have already made up your mind to take hacksaw to mandolin, I can only wish you the best of luck.

[MandoSquirrel]

I would also suggest that it is in fact possible to assess your tone even under full attack with the board intact. It might take a little extra effort to learn to pick without clicking against the board, but it is by no means impossible. Since you seem to have already made up your mind to take hacksaw to mandolin, I can only wish you the best of luck.
Thanks for your input, but I've given up on trying to convince people to learn proper technique instead of butchering their instruments http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif ; they don't seem to want to hear it! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[alt_2ooning]

I haven’t missed the point regarding the extreme design of the fingerboard …..I’m still flippin’ over stones lookin’ for #the ‘mold’ that says one size #fit all ……I stated a few posts back of limiting the modification to the 23 and if need be go back another one or two ….that takes me to #quote /unquote #>>Most folks who have their fingerboards scooped or abbreviated cut back to around the 23rd fret like the Goldrush or maybe back to the 21st << ……the thread is now becoming #full circle repetitious.

>>Since you seem to have already made up your mind to take hacksaw to mandolin, I can only wish you the best of luck. <<

ooops….where did I imply ‘butchering’ with a hack saw …I sense a bit of prejudgment by your errantly reading the invisible that is not contained between my ‘written’ lines …..what I had links to were scalloping methods and the links that were posted were ditto…..which leads me to ‘respond’ thanks but no thanks …not in any need of good luck wishes, rabbits feet or horseshoes for the time being….yes I know you didn’t include the feet and shoes …I did.

… before signing off…one #final note for the use of the hacksaw that I must buy since I do not own one…….I’ll find it extremely useful to saw-off my connection to this thread #as the info contained via John’s input was most invaluable and answered ALL my questions thereby prompting no further discussion on my part regarding this thread.

-----------------------------------------------------------

The worst cynicism: a belief in luck.
Joyce Carol Oates

----------------------------------------------------------- http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[Bill Snyder]

alt_2ooning,
You may think that they are busting your chops but they really are just trying to keep you from making what they deem to be a mistake if you end up taking the board too far back.

[alt_2ooning]

Thanks Bill

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I lied …never got around to getting the hack blade .. #…figured there wasn’t a need for it.

…hopefully the content of my posts doesn’t come across as combative…..why ?…. the emoticon smiley reflects my true spirit and mood during these ‘passionate’ discussions…..seems as though the #passion surfaces only when involving #women and mandos….mostly mandos these days #…..anyway……

Initially I stated 'digging' (read delicately and precisionally scalloping ) and not hacking out the fretboard back to 17 ……..bad call after reviewing much of what was being relayed back …the decision to limit modifications not beyond 21 then became the aim and intent……. I appreciate their input and never once took their input to be equivalent to the analogy of bustin’ my chops ……it takes much than caustic words (none of which I have received here on this highly informative forum) to trigger a retalitory #‘bust em back’ #response.

…….inanimate computer screens displaying spirited typed word can appear misleading….often times friendly jostling appears to morph into #unintentional combative ‘gestures’ (read offensive sarcasm)…. .I’d be pretty thin skinned if that was my attitude….furthermore #nor would I ‘transmit’ that behavior….afterall I’m a 2 day old/new guest of your board….I plan on coming back again and again #and thereby giving no reason to #getting tossed by the administrators.

Stoney http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif hows that for suckin' up ....GEEZ what am I sayin'

[markishandsome]

I'll admit I struggled to unravel you're rather flowery prose and may have missed whatever exactly your intent was. I wasn't trying to bust your chops though, simply encouraging you to look before you leap, or maybe listen before you lop, or search before you scallop... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[MandoBen]

I have been thinking lately that I might have 17-19 frets replaced with banjo wire, then have the remaining frets removed entireley. It seems to me like the thickness of a banjo fret is all the extra picking space I need, and then I wouldn't have to alter the fretboard at all. I could even save all the original 89 year old frets in case I ever want to restore it later. Anyone ever tried that? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

I like to scoop the board back to the 23rd fret. That gives me all the room I need to get the tones I want.

I like a low action, much lower than the typical bluegrasser would want but I don't do bluegrass. The strings above the scoop are at about the height a normal bluegrass action puts the strings above a non-scooped board. With a low action all this "learn to play better" stuff isn't very helpful.

[markishandsome]

Just learn to play A LOT better! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif