Gibson mandolin production numbers?

[Bernie Daniel]

I was wondering if anyone can give a good estimate of approximately how many mandolins that Gibson makes per year since they moved the production to Nashille?

If #you know any more details -- such as a finer scale break out of the production -- e.g., how many are A's vs F's or signatures versus regular F5L's or F5G's etc. that would be cool too.

Thanks much. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[sgarrity]

You might as well as who shot Kennedy.....

[Big Joe]

Sorry Bernie...no one will give you that number. It is a bit of proprietary information that I am not at liberty to discuss. I guess the only thing I can say is they built all of them http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif .

[Bernie Daniel]

Interesting! #I wonder what the advantage is in keeping it "classified"? #I assume it is not to avoid taxes! #(that was a joke).

By contrast, for example in a much bigger industry, motor vehicles, the individual companies make great efforts to be certain that everone knows how many of each and every model they make -- for bragging rights etc.

What makes stringed instruments any different? #Is it just "tradition"?

Now I have a new challenge! I'll let you know when I find the answer. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[MikeEdgerton]

The advantage for Joe might be that Joe wants to do business with his old employer at some point in the future but I could be wrong.

Gibson is a privately held firm and not a publicly traded company. They don't have to release the same information an automobile manufacturer would have to release.

[f5loar]

And you think the stock market is a roller coaster ride! Gibson went through some years with very low production on the mandolins. I'd say the interest would really be on the F5s and not the other models. I would think somebody does have that figure and should let it out. There is a published book on the production figures for all Gibson instruments from 1937 to 1979. It's time for a 2nd edition covering 1980 to 2008. They could sell the book in the mall store having exclusive selling rights with no mail order so you would have to go to the mall store to get one making you look and hopeful buy something new hanging on the wall (or at least of set of Monroe strings).

[Super400]

The automobile manufactures have always made their numbers available, even though it is not a required element of being a publicly traded company. The financial figures are indeed required, though.

Vintage car enthusiasts know how many of each model were made, and even how many had automatic, a/c, radios, etc.

Knowing the production numbers by model by manufacturer in the musical instrument field would be pretty neat information for those of us that care. And, I suspect tht many of us do.

[swinginmandolins]

[QUOTE]They could sell the book in the mall store having exclusive selling rights with no mail order so you would have to go to the mall store to get one making you look and hopeful buy something new hanging on the wall (or at least of set of Monroe strings).

Doc Martin did a book that you could only get if you purchased their footwear.

[dirty harry]

I think I have that number, let me see, 14227. No 14428.
Just kidding folks

[Bernie Daniel]

MikeEdgerton: Gibson is a privately held firm and not a publicly traded company. They don't have to release the same information an automobile manufacturer would have to release.

Mike, Yes I am aware that they are a privately held concern and that they don't have to release production figures -- but my question is why they considered that kind of data to be confidential business information (CBI).

BTW for your information it looks to me like an annual report on musical insturment sales figures -- industry wide and including Gibson -- is available. #The report is prepared annually (I guess) by a concern called Research and Markets.

Link to: (http://www.researchandmarkets.com/reports/338782). #

This report appears to cost [b]only[/] about $4000 for a single copy #- but then you have your choice between hard copy and electronic -- so I'm sure that raises the cost (groan).

Anyhow I can understand why the many issues related to #national defense or pharmacueticals are handled this way -- i.e., as CBI -- but mandolins? #Mystery to me. #

Heck I think that if you want you can find out how many new fighter jets are built each year! #So it seems pretty silly to me --but then what do I know?

[MikeEdgerton]

I'm going to guess (without buying the report) that they might release total number of instruments, but it's more likley that some outside source is guessing at the total number of units.

I don't think Henry wants to pick up a magazine and see an ad where Weber announces that they are the largest mandolin manufacturer in the US and the source for their information is one of Gibson's published reports.

[Bernie Daniel]

MikeEdgerton: I don't think Henry wants to pick up a magazine and see an ad where Weber announces that they are the largest mandolin manufacturer in the US and the source for their information is one of Gibson's published reports.

There you go now we know how to get the info. #Get Weber to say we are number one then we see if Gibson sues them #If they do maybe we can get the info. from the court record.

But I guess you have put your finger on the central issue here. Gibson is probably a pretty minor player -- in terms of sales volume -- and they don't want that widely known or at least known with any certitude.

I'm sure you are right probably companies like Weber, (maybe even Collings Breedlove etc.,?) and for sure the made-in-China brands have larger shares of the mandolin market these days.

I guess the "new" made in China Flatirons are the proof of that.

[Big Joe]

All people involved in production at Gibson, and especially senior managers must sign a statement that they will not divulge production numbers, dollars, or other proprietary information. I think it has to do with Henry controlling what information he releases. I must also say that report someone mentioned above gets their numbers by estimates not by any information revealed by Gibson. Some companies love to publish what they do, others not so much. I don't know why, I only know I had to do what I was told and I will honor my word with them. That's the way it is in Henryville folks http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif .

[bradeinhorn]

I'm sure you are right probably companies like Weber, (maybe even Collings Breedlove etc.,?) and for sure the made-in-China brands have larger shares of the mandolin market these days.

I guess the "new" made in China Flatirons are the proof of that.

i doubt collings, weber, and breedlove have nearly as many mandolins sold yearly as gibson does, even combined. you might be letting what you see on the cafe, skew your vision.

[Bob Sayers]

You have to respect Gibson (and Henry J.) for the way they want to run their business. That's their prerogative. But it seems so counter-intuitive, especially when compared with the folks at Martin who get alot of public relations mileage by sharing their production numbers with customers. I'm sure Martin has its own business secrets; but a little bit of "transparency" has won them many loyal fans.

Bob

[allenhopkins]

C.F. Martin Co. has released figures, printed in Longworth's book and supplement, of the numbers of each model guitar they manufactured each year. Now, I don't know if those figures have been brought up to date, since the last supplement of Martin Guitars: A History I own is over 25 years old. But at least at one time they weren't shy about telling everyone that they made 2,750 D-35's in 1979 (and only 20 Style A mandolins).

Perhaps it has something to do with different corporate philosophies, which seems to be what Joe V is alluding to in his post.

[woodwizard]

I hope this is not taken the wrong way because I really dig the Gibson Company. But I'm sure a lot of people scratch their head about the way Gibson handles certain things. For example, like in the recent past when they 86ed most of their dealers. I mean really narrowed it down to just a few as well as all the new rules of engagagement for the new dealers that were left. And the mandolin/guitar. I think it all goes back to one guy (Henry) I understand that they have every right to run the company the way they want. Sometimes it's just hard to make sense out of some things. Long live Gibson! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Bernie Daniel]

bradeinhorn: I doubt collings, weber, and breedlove have nearly as many mandolins sold yearly as gibson does, even combined. you might be letting what you see on the cafe, skew your vision.

You could be right -- I really don't know. #But if you consider the big movers of new mandolins (that I know about)all seem to have more traffic in other brands esp. brands like Weber etc. -- But I really just guessing here.

I'm sure this has been asked before but do we know the approximate distribution of mandolin brands owned by cafe members? #It is probably biased to higher end models eh?

The BG mandolin camp that I attended seem to see more Gibsons (than any other brand) but we all know the reason for that. #What percent of all mandolin players are "bluegrassers"? #I guess I really don't have a clue about that either.

Very small sample -- but at a recent workshop I attended taught by a professional BG mandolist I was the only one with a Gibson -- there were two or three Webers, a Kimble, a Collings and two other non-USA brands. #Again. that's a pretty small sample though.

I have thought of a few statistical (modeling) approaches one might use to estimate the the Gibson market share but it would take more "leg work" than I'm willing to put into it.

I'm interested but there are limits....thanks for the comments.