What do you hear

[Geoff B]

So I'm going off a different topic dealing with the "break in" of an instrument, but I thought it was different enough to justify a new thread. I've got my own ideas, but I'd like to know how other people describe this wonderful quality.

What qualities of the sound make a mandolin's sound "broken in"? What changes from being brand new to being broken in?
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[jasona]

The mandolin opens up its dynamic range. To my ear, its all compressed when new. When open, the sonic spectrum is wider, and you can hear the spaces between the tones, overtones, etc. Hard to talk about sound, really, but that's what I hear. The bass deepens, the treble focuses, and there is more room in the middle. Someone once put it like this: The mandolin has a sock in its sound hole and someone removed it.

[Antlurz]

The complexity of everything gets wild on some of them. It's like the differnce between a five dollar mouth harp and the Pipe organ at the Morman Tabernacle.

Of course, not always nearly that dramatic, but sometimes the difference just cannot be denied. On some, if you heard it when it was first tuned and played, then came back a half hour later and heard the same instrument, you absolutely wouldn't believe it was the same instrument.

Ron

[Stephen Perry]

I hear less noise. Faster response.

[Stephanie Reiser]

I hear the instrument change from a thuddy, woody sound of a collection of glued together wood, to one of a musical instrument, as the strings straighten and the wood tightens together. I can absolutely hear this. It is most dramatic during the first few hours, and continues to take place for several months thereafter. It is the most magical part of building a musical instrument - the birth of a new guitar or mandolin, as it learns to talk and sing.

[fredfrank]

Some times when an instrument opens up, you hear a cracking sound.

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[markishandsome]

I built a mandolin once that had very uneven volume across the strings and up the neck. The C on the E string, for example, was noticeably louder than anything else on the fretboard. Within a few months that all ironed itself out. I agree with Ms Reiser that the most dramatic changes happen within the first couple weeks or months.

[Brady Smith]

Some times when an instrument opens up, you hear a cracking sound.
Yep...that one there looks like it opened up pretty good.

[Michael Lewis]

Rather like a new pair of shoes. Tight and stiff at first but the longer you wear them they stretch and flex where they need to and gradually become more comfortable.

Some instruments that are on the flexible side when new sound big right out of the box, so to speak. These tend to be easily over driven if you play them hard. Most of what are generally considered "better" instruments are tight and a bit stiff at first. This accentuates brightness of tone and a more fundamental response. As the instrument settles in the wood "learns" what to do, the brightness lessens, the tone deepens and warms as the instrument becomes more focused and the tone more complex. This is all a physical function of stress and exercise of the structure. If we are lucky we eventually learn how much brightness to build into the new instrumsnts so they will develop into what we want. This is an oversimplification of course, but you get the idea.

Anyway, that is what I was told by an old engineer that has pursued a passion for making violins since 1932.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif Cream and sugar with yours? Jus' black please.

[sunburst]

I think I hear,,,more feel a difference in response as a mandolin matures and/or warms up. The same mandolin that once had to be played hard to get a good chop, or pushed for dynamic range, becomes more effortless. When you want a little more out of it, it responds.

[Susan H.]

I can tell the difference in the first couple of weeks I've owned my new Eastman. And a big difference between brands. It is so much easier to play my Eastman than the MM I have (which I don't play any longer). And I'm just a novice player. But, there is no doubt in my mind the more I play my mandolin the sweeter it sounds. And as I get better with time so will my mandolin.

[JeffD]

I have a pre-Gibson Flatiron mandola, I bought new in 1984. The primary difference I noticed as it "opened up" is the volume. And today the thing is a canon. While it won't kill a banjo, it might just cause it some serious harm.

My Weber Aspen II, which I have owned for a few years now, opened up in a different way. It seemed to become sweeter, and to gain more depth and bass. I liked the sound when I bought it, I love the sound now.

[buddyellis]

Some instruments that are on the flexible side when new sound big right out of the box, so to speak. These tend to be easily over driven if you play them hard. Most of what are generally considered "better" instruments are tight and a bit stiff at first.


Agreed. I think instruments tend to gain a bit of bottom end as they get played in. Instruments that start out a bit stiff sounding (precluding MAJOR overbuilding, say of the average pacrim low end instrument), gain some mid/low thickness with time, have more headroom, and become more balanced. Instruments that start out with good mid/lows can become too heavy there, sonically, start to lose some sweetness on the top end, and tend to 'blat out' if played hard. I've gravitated toward stiffer/denser soundboard materials, and I've got two I'm building from scratch right now with some very dense picea abies ('carpathian') spruce, so we will see how that experiment plays out. It is a balancing act, and I've a lot of learning to do.

This has especially been something I've noticed with my early instruments. They sounded good at first, but have gotten a bit 'floppy' sounding over the last couple years.

My first F (kit) had a bit of thinness right at the tailpiece (.095,), the worst place in the world to be thin, which is what precipitated me pulling it apart in the first place. It has always been a great sounding mandolin (beginners luck, no doubt) but over time it has gotten tubby and has lost a bit of the high end twinkle, especially up the neck. I placed a (small) patch at the weak point, and replaced the tone bars with stiffer material (and more length), so we'll see how she changes. Interesting experiment, anyway.

[Tom C]

I believe "breaking in" takes years. Many people say how their mando sounds better after 30 minutes of playing or a couple of weeks. I can listen to a terrible recording that has been duplicated many times from cassette. Audience recordings, with hisses and no highs...etc. Well after 30 minutes that sounds better than when I first put it on too. Tone is in the ears of the beholder.

[woodwizard]

Tom C. ... that is so true http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[markishandsome]

Well after 30 minutes that sounds better than when I first put it on too. Tone is in the ears of the beholder.

And yet you claim you can detect tonal changes over periods of years? Am I missing something?

[Geoff B]

I really like the responses so far.
I would agree with the folks saying that the first 30 minutes makes a large change. Yes, some of that may be the ears getting accustomed to it, but I think it would be worth examining quantitatively if possible. (perhaps placing a series of tuning forks on the instrument and measuring the response of the instrument with specturm analysis. Then repeating in thirty minutes, 1 hour, 2 hours, 1 day, 2 days etc.). Hmmmm....

Anyway, I've noticed my instruments get sweeter, and I guess a better way to say that is they balance, initially mid/highs heavy (tight sounding) with lots of volume and then getting to even low to high. I also agree with note discretion over time, where you can identify the individual notes and it is less tone soupy. I'd be interested to hear more from folks whose instruments got too low-heavy and lost the ringing highs. Too thin graduations? Wide grain? Small tone bars? hearing loss? (joking...):;):

[Robert Moreau]

My Eastman 515 is just over 1 year old. I notice a huge difference in the volume and tone (and maybe my technique is improving a little too). The only way I can describe it is more open than when it was new.

One thing I notice more these days, and I don't know if it's associated with the instrument breaking in or not, is that it's much more noticeable when I put new strings on. When the instrument was new a new set of strings sounded fine after a couple of hours. Now it takes a couple of days before I feel that they sound OK.

Rob

[Geoff B]

1) I was considering the break-it-in-with-a-fire-poker joke, but I hesitated-- I'm glad someone jumped on it.

2) Going off Rob's post, yes, I'm at the point now where I need to play it for a week or two to get new strings to not be so punchy on one of my instruments. I'm a die-hard fan of J74 or 75's, but I get pretty sick of the new string sound, I prefer those to be broken in as well....