Educated me please.

[Bitterroot]

I currently own a weber bitterroot and love it..its a keeper. I want to add to my collection of instruments by getting another player...and upgrade. I don't really understand the specs of a mandolin when they are listed, so I'm hoping I can learn something here. I don't even know all the specs that I should be concerned. I don't really even know the specs of my bitterroot but I have no problems playing it. I am 6'5 with big hands so I've often wondered what the widest fretboard or larger than normal fretboard even is. Scale length? fretwire? tuner type? radius? I'm like the F's and the two points. Are some mandolins wider than others. Sometimes when I look at other players mandolins at jams some of their sides look like they are wider than mine. Also how do you know when a mandolin is "broken in". Sometimes to me the instrument feels light and very breathy. How can you know or guess how a mandolin is going to open up. I'd hate to put down a mandolin I think is still is dull to later find out it was a sleeper and sounds great months later is someone else's hands.

[bradeinhorn]

try out a bunch of them and see what feels and sounds good to you. eventually you'll figure it out.,, as to what is wide? 1 and 1/4 is generally the widest an f-5 will go, but that may be hard to find without a custom build. things like fret wire thickness, radius, and neck shape, string spacing are really items of preference, so i again point you to my initial sentence. anyone who says one is more playable than the other will likely find an opponent on here, so just get out there and try a bunch out.

[Bitterroot]

If there were a bunch to try out I would. So I was kinda looking to know my information so when I look at the classifieds I could actually pull the trigger on a purchase because it has the specs I think I want.

[bradeinhorn]

how about checking out those mandos you see at the jams you go to? the problem is, here you'll just get varied opinions of what others like...

what do you like about the mandolin you have? you can certainly contact weber regarding the specs on it. you can use that as a basis of comparison. perhaps direct your question to bigger dudes with large hands...

b

[Michael Lewis]

Bitteroot, Brad has some really good advice here. Take your time and digest what he said.

It seems that you are getting ahead of yourself and are coming down with a bad case of MAS before you know what you really like. You will do well to have some self control and patience at this time while you learn about these seductive little instruments. There are a lot of folks out there willing to sell you something, it is up to YOU to decide what you prefer, and ask for it. There is a great deal of written information here on the Cafe that can help you form a perspective, but like Brad suggested, play as many other mandolins as you can. It won't take too long before you form some preferences.

[Bill Snyder]

Scale length is the distance of the vibrating string - that is from the nut to the bridge. MOST (but not all) modern mandolins sold in the USA use a 13 7/8" scale length. Having said this I see that Weber's website shows 14" scale length.
Specs on the Bitterroot from Weber's site

Scale length: 14 inches mandolin radius
Frets: .080
Nut Width: 1 1/8"
Machine Heads: Nickel Grovers

What do you like about yours and what would you like to change? Use that as a starting point.

[Bitterroot]

Thanks Curious, this is the stuff I wanted to know...what is scale length, fret wire size, radius vs flat...things like that I don't know the meaning of all the "spec" stuff. I have more self control on throwing thousands of dollars somewhere before I know what I want. I just wanted the education on what stuff means. I probably asked the question wrong, but hopefully you can see what I meant to ask and give me some more information...thanks

[Bob DeVellis]

Bitterroot -- A lot of preference is familiarity. Once you get used to something, something else that departs from it might not feel right to you. At some point, you may have some hard and fast preferences based on wide experience of a number of different mandolin features but that's hard to pull off in the beginning.

I personally share your preference for wide fingerboards, but to me, a wide board is 1 1/2". I think only Sobells have that width as more or less standard. So, a board that wide is not at all common and I have adapted to less wide boards without too much trouble. Fingerboard width isn't the whole story, though. the shape of the board and neck play a part, and the size of the frets may, as well. I prefer radiused boards. On a radiused board, the board isn't dead flat from edge to edge but slightly curved. In other words, each fret is a slight arch rather than a dead-straight piece of metal. If you hold the mandolin with the butt end near your nose and look at the frets at the other end, you'll notice that curve if the board is radiused. In a way, a radius increases the width of the fingerboard. The surface from one edge to another along the board (or along a fret) is a bit longer because of the curve. So, your fingers have a teeny bit more room. More importantly, many people (but not all) find the slightly curved board fits the natural position of their fingers more comfortably. Speaking of curves and natural positions, different people find different neck profiles to suit them. Some like a hefty neck that really fills their hand while others like a delicate, thin neck. Some like a "V" edge on the back, others prefer it flatter, and some like it as almost a semi-circle.

The difficulty arises because these factors interact with each other. So, a certain fretboard width and radius will feel different when the fingerboard is on a neck of one profile than on another. This is why people always give that advice that can seem so annoying: "try a bunch and see what you like." If you can't try out a bunch, you might be left with the option of taking a blind stab and adapting to whatever you end up with. I don't think this is as bad as it sounds in most cases when someone hasn't really developed clear preferences. If your inclination is to get a wider fretboard, I'd probably follow that inclination. But maybe it shouldn't be a deal-breaker if you can't find a wider necked instrument very easily.

For better or worse, you'll probably go through a few mandolins before you find the perfect one. If you don't make really bad choices, the process can actually be enjoyable and you don't have to take a financial beating every time you change instruments (although it takes discipline to avoid losses, sometimes). This is a natural process of discovery as your preferences become more refined with experience. My one last observation is that I think it can be misleading to "blame" one aspect of an instrument for any dissatisfaction it might cause. Different combinations of features really are an integral whole. As an example, I generally don't like sharp V neck profiles but I find the Collings necks, which are sharp V's, to be very comfortable. I generally don't like flat fretboards but on many instruments, I do like them.

Finally, this is all just one guy's opinion, given for what little it is worth. I share your frustration with finding no definitive answers but that's just the nature of the beast.

[swinginmandolins]

I don't have huge hand, but fairly big with long fingers. I used to own 2 Webers and I was able to play them just fine. I now own a Holst and find that playing is much more comfortable. The nut is 1 1/8" but the neck profile is thicker, which I think is why it's easier for me to play. The string spacing is wider on this neck as well. V-necks aren't comfortable to my hands as I think it makes the neck too narrow. That said a custom builder like Steve Holst will make the neck to what you like, you just have to find what will work or talk a bunch to the person you want to build the mandolin. They may even make a neck and send it to you to see if it will work.
Radius boards are just a matter of preference. I think that they are easier to play. Same with fret wire I prefer bigger wire. Try as many as you can. If you are in the situation I'm in with not many mandos to try, even at jams, you have to filter through the opinions on the board and try to figure out what you want. Find a builder you might like to work with and ask questions. Then again you may have to do like I've been doing take chances until you find what works. I found one, but always wonder if there is something better, and live with some regrets of hasty choices. That is where Brads advice is the best if you can find ways to try as many as you can.

[MikeB]

Wow, Bill, I thought almost all mandolins made today had 13 7/8" scales, too. I just measure my new Weber Custom Vintage oval hole--exactly 14"! Who knew? My neck is 1 1/8" at the nut, as well, radiused fret board. (And SWEEET!)

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[markishandsome]

Check out the Cafe Glossary for definitions of some of these terms. Most of them are exactly what you would think they mean. For example: fret size is, um, the size of the frets (height and width). Vintage Gibsons used really tiny fretwire, but many modern builders like to use big fat frets so that the instrument plays more like a guitar. Take some time and educate yourself, all the info you're looking for is readily available here and through google.

The width of the sides for almost any archtop mandolin you'll ever come across is about 1-3/8".

As to knowing when an instrument is fully opened up, that's sort of like asking how to tell when you've had your last hiccup.

[David Newton]

Mike B.
Measure it again, is it 7" exactly from the front of the nut to the middle of the 12th fret? Or is it 6 15/16"?

[Jonathan Peck]

Without knowing your price range - The old pre-Loar gibson mandolins had a wider fretboard. Pre Loar meaning prior to 1923 and the advent of the truss rod (this date is approximate as I don't know the exact date when the truss rod was starting to be used). The truss rod allowed the neck to be made less chunky as well, so the old A's will have a pretty substantial V shaped neck. I think they are very comfortable and the strings have a good spacing on the approx 1+3/16" wide at the nut necks. These mandolins can run from around $2,800- and up. Less for one with issues.

I'm also familiar with a couple of 30's Gibson Fern mandolins that have a wider neck, 1+3/16". I'm not sure of the exact dates of production of these with the wider necks though. They can run you upwards of 35K. The Gibson Sam Bush model also has a wider neck as it was modeled after Sam's 30's Fern.

The Givens mandolins have an ususual string spacing and feel wider. The pairs of strings are close together with more space between each pair. This might be helpful with chucky fingers.

[pelone]

Bitterroot---If you are looking for a great player that is a good bargain--try the classifieds of the Mandolin Cafe and search for a Mid-Mo (now Big Muddy) with a wide neck. In my opinion, these mandos wail. Another choice might be the Breedlove mandos that can be gotten with a neck that is 1 1/4 at the nut.

[Bill Snyder]

Mike B.
Measure it again, is it 7" exactly from the front of the nut to the middle of the 12th fret? Or is it 6 15/16"?
Dave, according to Weber's website they use a 14" scale length for their mandolins.

[david blair]

The Weber is a nice instrument....A lot can be done about the way it sounds adusting the bridge and saddle. Compare the set-up on yours with pictures from the archive gallery, and also a heavy tailpiece can be an improvement. The easiest way to sound better in my opinion though is your choice of picks. Night and day.

http://www.jimdunlop.com/index.p....ks (http://www.jimdunlop.com/index.php?page=products/pip&id=41&pmh=products/picks)