Diminished Chords

[Tom C]

Basically, I know the shape of the chord and where to play it. The answer is practice. but my question is...
When playing a tune that's a bit quick to make that change,
what are the best 2 or three notes to play when playing as a duet? I just may not have time to get it up to speed by the time I want to play it. The tune is Little Rock getaway.
I can play it close to 200bps but the chords, more like 170 due to the dimisnished chords. When I practice I alway play the four notes. If it was a band setting, I let somebody else play the diminished but with only 2 it may not sound right.

[John Rosett]

ahh, little rock getaway, a great mando tune.
i would play the root and flat 5 of the chord-for example,if you're playing a f#dim, the f# and the c.
i use that in solos sometimes, too. if the chord change is f to f#, i'll play a tremoloed double stop of f and a, then f# and c.
have you ever heard the recording of great guitarist jimmy bryant playing little rock getaway? it'll make you think twice about ever playing it in public.
john

[Mike Crocker]

Well fwiw, I think generally I go for the root, fifth, and the diminished intervals (to use your example) unless it sounds better in the context with the third or whatever instead. Or go for what's quickest to finger since tempo is an issue and hope for the best. Context can dictate a lot in harmony, so experiment with what sounds best to your ears and eliminate the unnecessary notes to ease the fingering.

Peace, Mooh.

[John Flynn]

I share your pain. I sometimes refer to such a chord as a "Demented Seventh!" They are really pretty easy to do if you use the form:

2
3
1
2 # #

For an A, D#, C or F# diminished, as an example. I try to hit the second fret on the first and fourth courses with my third and second fingers respecitvely, which is the way I play and open D major. Then the other two fingers just seem to fall into place to complete the diminished.

A diminished chord really needs all four notes to really get that diminished sound. As to what two notes you hit if you can only hit two, I would say there are two answers:

1. Best case, try different combinations of two of the notes and see which two sound the best. There is no easy answer there. It depends on which diminished chord you are playing and what the music is doing. Sorry but I am not familiar with the particular tune you mention. One clue is that if one of the chord tones is in the melody, that is a keeper.

2. Worst case, play the two you can hit the easiest and set you up the best for the next chord.

Truth is, if you are going to go to all that trouble, you might as well just learn to play the whole chord!

[Peter Hackman]

I share your pain. I sometimes refer to such a chord as a "Demented Seventh!" They are really pretty easy to do if you use the form:

2
3
1
2
I use the same form but I drop the top note. I rarely
play four-note chords. This form, say, c-f#-e flat
leads smoothly into other forms, say c-g-e, c-f-d,
etc.

[Pete Martin]

Just keep practicing, you'll get it. To me, if you cna play the chop chords clean, you can play any other chord with practice. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Kelly_guy]

You can play that at 200 bpm? I've been working on Little Rock Getaway all this last week. I've gone from 70 bpm up to about...oh, 90 bpm. There's something just really unnatural about that song! Maybe after working on it for another year or so, I'll get it up to 200 bpm. I doubt it though, I can barely play Old Joe Clark at that speed. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Dave Reiner]

Here's a related question -- when do you use diminished chords? #I can play them fine, but am not always sure of the situations in which they are used.

For example, Little Rock Getaway seems to have a I - I#dim - ii7 - V7 in it --- is this a general rule for spicing up a I - ii - V progression?

And Darktown Strutter's Ball has F - F#dim - C - A (in the key of C), or IV - IV#dim - I - VI in it --- is this a way to spice up a IV - I transition?

And where else?

Thanks!

Dave

[Peter Hackman]

Here's a related question -- when do you use diminished chords? I can play them fine, but am not always sure of the situations in which they are used.
One use is to introduce smoother chord transitions
and bass scales
for variety; as inversions enter the game naturally,
e.g., the third or the fifth in the bass, you get a whole
different feeling, a more singing or floating type
of bass line.
Note that in DSB most people would play or imply
F-f#dim-C/g-A.

Then, because of their tonal ambiguity, dim chords are sometimes used
to create suspension and tension, a device you will hear
in just about any Beethoven symphony.

[Tom C]

The fingering is tricky on the A part but it's basically repeats itself. I have not been playing my whole life -maybe a 8th of it http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif -so I do not have the finger muscles to hold down some strings and lift some fingers aand X-pick and lift other fingers ..etc as in some rags like Russian Rag where it's played over Yankee Doddle and the B part of Blackberry Rag (not blossom).

[AlanN]

A way to solo over a diminished chord is to use fingers 1 and 3 and play minor thirds ascending on each string, shifting down 1 fret as you change strings, so to play over a C dim starting on the G string:
G5, G8
D4, D7
A3, A6
E2, E5

Jethro has stuff like this in his book.

[Pete Martin]

I find diminished chords most useful in chromatic lines, often chromatic chord substitutions, such as G6 G#dim Am7 Bbdim Bm7. They can also be used to substitute for a dominant 7 chord, one note higher (C#dim substituted for a C7). While this doesn't allways work in chording, it works very well in soloing.

Quite often, when most other chord types dont work well in a progression, the diminished chord works. Use your ear in all cases and make sure it sounds musical.